Debate on the Address

Debate between Jonathan Ashworth and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 4th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I wish she had seen the Prime Minister’s appearance before the Liaison Committee, because he is a class act in respect of his evidence. He told the Committee that he is responsible for the immigration total not going below 100,000 because he has been going around the world drumming up support for students to come and study in this country. He looked no further. It is a great achievement. When he went to China, he told all the Chinese to come and study in the UK. When he went to India, as he has done four times—full credit to him for being the first Prime Minister to visit India four times—he told all the Indians to come to study in Britain. No wonder the target has not been met. He is responsible.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend and parliamentary neighbour for giving way. In the city that we represent we have two superb universities, both of which want to attract students from India. Yet the Home Office insists that students applying for visas have to go through credibility interviews. How on earth can the Government on the one hand say they want to increase our links and trade with India, and on the other hand make it more difficult for students from India to come to the UK?

[Keith Vaz]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Both vice-chancellors were dying to get on the Prime Minister’s plane when he went to India, to get more students to come over. All that will do is increase the total.

Mango Import Ban

Debate between Jonathan Ashworth and Keith Vaz

Thursday 8th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz]

I agree, and I will set out an action plan to address the issue, which I hope the Government will follow.

I raised this issue with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and in his response he stated that the reason for the ban was that plant pests and diseases, such as those intercepted in produce from India in recent years, could cause damage to recent salad crops, as mentioned by the hon. Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma). These pests included the tobacco whitefly.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

I am delighted that my right hon. Friend has secured this debate and grateful that he has given way. He is right that Leicester is the mango capital, but may I say how disappointed I was last Friday and Saturday when I failed to find a mango on Evington road in my constituency? All the mangos had been snapped up. I know that many of my Leicester constituents are disappointed that they are going to miss out on mangos this season. Like me, does he hope that the Minister will take up this issue seriously and quickly, because the mango season lasts only 10 weeks?

[Keith Vaz]

My hon. Friend is right to suggest that it will not be a proper summer without mangos in Leicester. This is a serious issue that will affect many of our constituents.

Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill

Debate between Jonathan Ashworth and Keith Vaz

Friday 28th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz]

I felt I had to give the hon. Gentleman his fourth chance to intervene, but he has still not answered the question and told the House how many doors he has knocked on in respect of the Muslim community.

Let me speak about Leicester East, which has 21,705 Muslims—20% of my constituents. The constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South has even more than that. He is very proud of them, and we are both proud of the multicultural nature of the great city of Leicester. I have received two separate petitions from constituents, one with 700 plus signatures from mosques across Leicester, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency. Another with 300 signatures comes from Northfields Education Centre. One thousand people have signed petitions opposing what is proposed by the hon. Member for Kettering. That is the largest petition I have received since 1 January this year.

I thank all those residents and mosques for their campaign: in particular, Imam Adam from the Jamia mosque in Asfordby street, Imam Khalil from the Al-Bukhari mosque on Loughborough road, Imam Imtiaz from the Masjid Ali on Smith Dorrien road, Imam Yasin from the Masjid Noor in Berner street, and Imam Mogra from the Masjid Umar in Evington road in my hon. Friend’s constituency—I am sure that after this debate he will be on his way to hold a surgery there. A further 50 constituents have e-mailed me, which is the largest number who have e-mailed on an issue so far this year. They may not have e-mailed in Kettering, but they are certainly e-mailing in Leicester.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

I shall not list all the mosques and imams who have got in touch with me, but a great number of my constituents have done so and I have received a number of petitions. If the House divides on this Bill I, like my right hon. Friend, will vote against it. Is not the point that those women who have signed the petitions should have the choice of whether or not to wear the veil, in the same way that a Sikh man in Leicester has the choice of whether to wear a turban, and a Hindu woman the choice of whether to wear a bindi on her forehead? This is about the freedom of choice.

[Keith Vaz]

It is; that is absolutely right. That is why I am so astonished that the hon. Member for Kettering, that great freedom fighter who has made so many eloquent speeches in this House about the overweening power of the state and who has criticised successive Governments because they were introducing legislation to dictate to people what they should do, should be on the wrong side of this argument. I am surprised that he is not with his hon. Friends the Members for Bury North and for Shipley, in saying, “Let freedom reign.” What he is proposing would affect the freedom of the citizens of this country. I am talking about fully fledged British citizens who may choose to wear a niqab or burqa and go about their daily business.

At my surgery in Leicester this evening, out of the 60 people I will see, at least one Muslim woman will come dressed in black in a burqa or hijab, and I will be able to see only her eyes. If I am satisfied on the basis of the issues that she puts before me that as a constituent she is entitled to my help, I will give her my help. I will not do what some have suggested Members of Parliament should do and ask her to remove her veil, because that is her choice.

I am not an Islamic scholar—as the hon. Gentleman is not—but I took the trouble of asking a couple of Islamic scholars this morning about the authority for Muslim women dressing in the way that they choose to dress. The Koran instructs both Muslim men and women to dress in a modest way. The clearest verse on the requirement for the hijab is in chapter 24, verses 30 to 31, which ask women to draw their khimar over their bosoms. Two other verses in the Koran concern women’s dress. Verse 31 of the Surah an-Nur contains two commands that particularly relate to women’s dress. The first is that women shall cover all of their beauty except

“what is apparent of it”

around men who are not related to them. The second is that women should extend their head coverings to cover the rest of their body, should they choose to do so. Verse 59 of the Surah al-Ahzab commands that women shall wear long, loose outer garments when they go out from their houses. These two verses, taken together, set out three parts of the hijab or modest dress—the headscarf; modest clothes that together with the headscarf cover everything but what has been exempted; and, for outdoors, a modest outer garment to cover the clothes.

The hon. Gentleman is involved in so many important issues of state in this House; he is a great authority on the European Union; and he is here at 2.30 pm almost every day to speak about all these great issues. I often come to listen to him, and we are on the same side on the question of a European referendum—but I will not go into that as it is not mentioned in the Bill. I am therefore astonished that he should want to interfere in the issue of the clothing of Muslim women, and that he feels—somehow—that the fact that a woman chooses to wear a burqa undermines the multicultural nature of this country. What makes this country great is that we have people here from all over the world whose children were born here—like my children were—and who love this country and believe passionately in the values of multiculturalism.

The Minister spends every day of his working life talking about the cultural diversity of our country, which includes the work that is done by the Muslim community. He will be among the first to tell the House when he catches your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, that what won us the Olympics was being able to show London as a mirror to the world. So many different languages and religions all come together in London, and there will never be an Olympic games like ours anywhere on planet Earth. London is special, Leicester is special and Manchester is special, and that makes this country special—[Interruption.] Bradford is special, I should add, as the hon. Member for Shipley leaves the Chamber. It is important that we are careful with the precious gift of multiculturalism that we have been given.

The hon. Member for Kettering may think that this is a modest Bill, but it has provoked enormous controversy in my constituency and among the 2.7 million Muslims nationwide. As my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) will know, because she has a large Muslim community in her very diverse constituency, our constituents are at Friday prayers as we speak, so it is unlikely that they are watching this debate, although we will of course send them copies of Hansard afterwards because we want them to see what we have said on their behalf. The fact is, however, that what makes this country special is diversity.

I know that the hon. Gentleman feels that he has done no wrong in introducing his Bill. He is of course an elected Member of Parliament, and he can talk about whatever he wants to talk about in the Chamber. That is another reason why this country is so special. But he has caused controversy, and I am worried about him, because he is normally a very fair and balanced person. I will not go down the route of how many doors he has knocked on, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I do not want to upset you again, but I think we shall find that, very unusually, he has taken the views of only one section of his constituency. I doubt that he spoke to a single member of the Muslim community about the Bill before presenting it to the House, because if he had done so, he would have been aware of the concerns that would be raised in that community.

I think that I dealt with the issue of security in response to a number of points made by the hon. Gentleman and by the hon. Member for Shipley. As for the position in the courts, when a judge has required a person to remove a veil that person has, so far, done so. As the hon. Gentleman said, the legal profession is concerned because some of the stuff that goes on in court is not just about voice, and may be about demeanour. I am not suggesting that it is somehow possible to look at someone’s face and know immediately whether that person is telling the truth. After all, the hon. Gentleman misjudged my face earlier: he thought that I was making a funny face, but it was actually my normal face.

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman is making, but our current system already covers it. In November last year, the Lord Chief Justice initiated a consultation with the judiciary and the Bar to see what they thought about the issue. However, the hon. Gentleman has been unable to cite any case from the tabloids, or from the internet worldwide, in which someone has been asked to remove a face covering and has refused to do so. The only security-related case that can be cited is the one involving Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed, who put on a burqa and left a mosque in Ealing. Ibrahim Magag did not put on a burqa when he went out of his house and hailed a taxi in order to leave the country. It is not as if that is happening every day; it is very exceptional and very unusual. I therefore do not think that the security issue should concern us in the context of the Bill.

Let me make three more points. First, although this may not have been the hon. Gentleman’s intention—he may have presented his Bill because he wanted a wider debate on the issues, or because his constituents were concerned—the Muslim community feels very strongly that it discriminates against members of their faith. As I have said, 20% of my constituents are members of the Muslim faith. Although I am a Catholic, I represent people from different religions, and if someone comes to me and says, “This discriminates against me as a Muslim”, I believe that person.

Secondly, there is the far more fundamental issue of the violation of a woman’s right to choose what she wants to wear and where she wants to wear it. Thirdly, there is the general point that we should be extremely careful about intervening to tell our citizens what they should wear in this country. There can be no end to that: we shall be on the slippery slope. The hon. Gentleman does not like political correctness—his whole political life has been opposed to it—but he is paving the way for more legislation providing for it.

I think that if the hon. Gentleman reflects, he will realise that rather than putting his Bill to the vote, he should withdraw it and engage in the consultations in which he ought to be engaging in Kettering and throughout the country. If members of the Kettering Muslim Association will not talk to him, I shall invite him to come to Leicester and talk to members of the Federation of Muslim Organisations there. They will tell him exactly what they feel about the subject. I urge him—I beg him—not to force the Bill to a vote. Let us accept that it will not help us to retain the wonderful multicultural country in which we live.

Ugandan Asians

Debate between Jonathan Ashworth and Keith Vaz

Thursday 6th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

It is a huge pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes).

I congratulate the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire (Mr Vara) on securing the debate, and on having assiduously visited many Members to persuade them to support it. I also pay tribute to the co-ordination between him and another Ugandan Asian’s son who is in the House of Lords, Lord Popat of Harrow. I understand that at 2.30 pm today the other place will also debate these important issues.

We should acknowledge that, although she was not born in Uganda, the hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) is the product of Ugandan Asian parents. The House of Commons has its fair share of representation of those whose families came from Uganda and settled in this country, although the other House has probably done slightly better in that regard.

My speech has two purposes: to recognise the perseverance and hard work of the Ugandan Asians who came to live in my constituency, and to celebrate the next generation. As we have heard, in 1972 28,000 Ugandan Asians came to Britain, and 10,000—a third of them—settled in Leicester. Let me start by saying the Ugandan Asian community has undoubtedly transformed the city of Leicester. In the early 1970s, Leicester was facing an economic crisis. The shrinking of the manufacturing sector, and in particular the hosiery industry, presented a real challenge to the city, but the Ugandan Asians came and rebuilt Leicester. They have transformed the city, and also the country. It has become fashionable to denigrate and criticise immigrants, but the same media outlets that used to say immigrants have come here to live off state benefits now celebrate their achievements.

In order to understand Leicester’s transformation, we must understand the journey of the Ugandan Asians. As the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire said, the contribution of the Ugandan Asians to Africa was profound. They transformed, and helped shape, Uganda. As well as holding the great festivals that we now also celebrate here, in a real sense they were the economic heart of Uganda—the doctors, the teachers, the business people.

My constituent, Nisha Popat, was born in Jinja, Uganda. Her father, Manu Lakhani, observed:

“Life in Uganda, I would say, was really, really wonderful because there was no tension. People were all friendly.”

He added that the Ugandan Asians made a great contribution to the country. My wife was born in east Africa, and she, too, has told me about how the east African Asians helped that continent.

We have heard about what Idi Amin did. The Ugandan Asians had to leave their homes and businesses—their money, friends and properties. That is a matter of record. My hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) described them queuing up, emotionally scarred by the experience of having to get their passports and come here.

Many arrived in Leicester with just a single bag, and they faced enormous hostility. Marches through Leicester were organised by the National Front, whose membership rocketed. We have also heard about what representatives on Leicester city council said, with some honourable exceptions, including Sir Peter Soulsby. An advertisement was placed—in the Uganda Argus, not the Leicester Mercury—telling people not to come:

“In your own interests and those of your family you should not come to Leicester.”

They came anyway, and soon Leicester will be the first city in Europe with a majority ethnic population. That is a source of great civic pride, which I and my parliamentary colleagues from Leicester, my hon. Friends the Members for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) and for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), share.

[Jonathan Ashworth]

Although we in Leicester have, of course, been remembering this 40th anniversary over recent weeks, we have also been remembering my right hon. Friend’s 25 years as a Leicester Member of Parliament—and we all look forward to his next 25 years. Does he agree that today Leicester is a tremendously harmonious city, and that that is in large part thanks to the great work done by the city council over many years, and also to the mosques, gurdwaras, temples and churches, as well as to all the other organisations such as the Federation of Muslim Organisations and the Gujarat Hindu Association? They have all worked very hard on this matter and continue to do so.

[Keith Vaz]

As usual, my hon. Friend is absolutely right, and he has given a name-check to some of the more prominent organisations, although there are many others.

The new arrivals settled in Highfields, Spinney Hill and Belgrave in my constituency, and in Rushey Mead. Ila Radia described her situation, as did Jitubhen Radia, who remembered of her arrival:

“It was very cold as we had no heating. I used to go to bed with my coat on.”

Aruna Badiani commented that

“my parents used to really suffer, because we struggled in the cold weather, with no central heating”,

and they were very isolated.

The new arrivals worked for companies including British United Shoe Machinery, Corah, Imperial Typewriters, GE Lighting, and Walkers Crisps. Bala Thakrar recalls her first days at school in England:

“I suppose going into the school was frightening. I went to a school where there weren’t many other Asian or African children so that for me was the biggest shock”

because all the children seemed so different. A teacher at the time, Mrs Gordon, said about the enthusiastic Ugandan Asian children:

“Sometimes a bit too keen, you know; they all wanted to be brain surgeons and doctors, but you got used to that.”

At that stage, of course, none of them wanted to be what the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire became: a Member of Parliament.

The new arrivals worked hard. They rebuilt their lives and held on to their values and culture. They were determined to create a new life for themselves, and made a truly significant impact on Leicester’s economy. One estimate suggests that the 10,000 who came to Leicester have created 30,000 jobs in the city. Those people included Bhagwanji Lakhani who set up the world-famous Bobby’s restaurant in my constituency, and Jayanti Chandarana, who bought his first petrol station in the 1970s.

Today the Ugandan Asian community is a part of the Leicester landscape. To see that we just have to walk down the Belgrave road in my constituency. I know the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) loves his constituency and area as much as I love mine, but if there were a competition, the Belgrave road would probably beat the Ealing road. On the Belgrave road is our “golden mile” as it is popularly known, because it boasts a range of shops and enterprises run by Ugandan Asians. I know that today a television screen has been set up in the Belgrave neighbourhood centre, and the community has gathered to watch this debate.

There are businesses such as Ram Jewellers and Kampala Jewellers and the great sari shop, Sheetals, as well as restaurants and caterers such as Mirch Masala, Sanjay Foods and Sharmilee. Even my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South is granted a visa to enter Leicester East to eat at these establishments. He might also choose to pop into the shop of the world-famous photographer, Maz Mashru, who has won the Kodak gold award for his amazing pictures.

Their contribution has not gone unrecognised by a grateful city. The local newspaper, the Leicester Mercury, dedicated pages to the achievements of the Ugandan Asians who came here. An exhibition was staged at the New Walk museum to celebrate their accomplishments. Such was its success that it will have a permanent home in the spring at the Newarke Houses museum.

We have heard from Members representing Slough, Harrow, Southwark and even Banff and Buchan, and we will hear later from a Member representing Wolverhampton. That illustrates that the Ugandan Asians have gone all over the country. I am particularly focused on the next generation, however. Those of us who came here as first-generation immigrants—I came here at the age of nine, and from Yemen, not east Africa—have opened the doors. The next generation will be the golden generation, because of the contribution they can make not as first-generation immigrants, but as equal citizens of this country.

That is true of the Ugandan Asians, and also of all the other communities who come here. Questions are nowadays asked about whether multiculturalism is a fad of the past. It is, in fact, very important. It is what won us the Olympics. Team GB was a mirror of Britain. Athletes from different backgrounds won us gold medals, and silvers and bronzes, because of the work they have done as equal citizens.

I have great ambitions and hopes for the next generation of Ugandan Asians. They have huge ambition themselves, and great talent and amazing capabilities. Perhaps one day a Ugandan Asian will be speaking not from the Back Benches, but from the Treasury Bench, winding up for the Government in important debates such as this one. I hope I am a Member long enough to see that.

I thank the hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire for enabling us to debate this important subject, and I say to the Ugandan Asians, both in the Belgrave neighbourhood centre in Leicester and throughout the country, who are watching our debate, “The best is yet to come. What you’ve gone through, no community has had to go through. The best is yet to come for you, for the people of Leicester, and for the people of this great country.”