John Pugh
Main Page: John Pugh (Liberal Democrat - Southport)Local Government: Combined Authority Orders
John Pugh Excerpts
Brandon Lewis
Yes, that is the intention. I was going to come to that in a few moments. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention.
As I was saying, we are doing this on the basis of the information that we have about each proposed combined authority. That also includes the results of the consultations we have undertaken for each of the proposed combined authorities—again, as required by the 2009 Act—as well as detailed proposals from each group of councils on how they wish their combined authority to operate, to take decisions and, most importantly, to be open, transparent and accountable. I know that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Corby (Andy Sawford) and I share a view on that.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
On the question of transparency and openness, I note that the explanatory memorandum states:
“The Government has now provided in the Order that it is mandatory for the Combined Authority to have an overview and scrutiny committee which can be made up of members across the parties.”
In that context, would political representation on such a committee have to be mixed, or could there be representation by just one party, even in an area with very mixed political representation?
Brandon Lewis
I will touch on the make-up in a moment. It would be representative of the political representation across the combined authorities—so a mixed make-up.
Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab)
I intend to support the draft statutory instruments, and I shall give my reasons for doing so.
What used to be known as Merseyside and is now known as the Liverpool city region has, over the years, underperformed in comparison with the place we are most often compared with, Greater Manchester. That might seem a strange thing for me to say, as a Merseyside MP, but I have said it publicly before. Indeed, the Minister of State, Cabinet Office, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), has heard me do so privately and publicly. I say it because we have been very reluctant, as individual authorities rather than collectively, to decide on what was right strategically for the whole city region as opposed to what might be difficult, in the short term, to argue in St Helens, Halton or Knowsley. There has been no mechanism, and often no will, to get together and say, “This is important for the whole city region. We should all get behind it and hopefully bring it to a successful conclusion.”
I will cite an example. It is significant that my hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) is here as I discuss this. Under the previous Government, there was a well-worked-up project called Merseytram line 1, which the transport authority had taken to a very late stage; it had carried out all the consultation and the project was ready to go ahead. My hon. Friend, who was the Minister responsible at the time, had to decline it because of opposition from within the Liverpool city region. In other words, some parts of the city region were unwilling to support something that did not go through their own boroughs on the grounds that there was no immediate benefit to them, even though it was of strategic importance to the wider city region. That was a very short-sighted way to behave, and I said so at the time. That is partly why I welcome these orders.
Mr Howarth
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, but I do not agree with him. Even if he is right, is the fact that he did not agree with the specific route a reason to scupper the whole project? By saying, “If I can’t get the route I want, we won’t have a tram at all,” I think he has made the point I am trying to demonstrate. My criticism of how we have responded in the past is supported by and encapsulated in his intervention.
John Pugh (Southport) (LD)
It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Mr Howarth). We have talked about these subjects many times in private and public settings. However, I do not share his enthusiasm for city region mayors.
The orders will be passed in any case, but I want to point out four distinct problems as quickly as I can. The first is the problem of peripheries. Although we talk much about communities, the orders are about councils. Councils and communities are not quite the same thing. Communities that are on the periphery of council areas, such as my town of Southport, often feel overlooked in such arrangements. I am sure that the Minister, as a representative of a seaside town, will understand that seaside towns have a special and distinct offer to make in respect of tourism, which might be lost in a city region picture.
The second problem, which we must all acknowledge honestly, is that the authorities to be combined are not of equal size. There is always the problem of the big player, whether it be Liverpool, Manchester or possibly Leeds. Manchester has dealt with the problem extraordinarily well. The combined authority is not chaired by Manchester. The system thrives in Manchester because the personnel work very well together. We cannot guarantee that that will happen everywhere.
The third problem is that of spare-part authorities. I will use the example of west Lancashire, which adjoins the Liverpool city region—I will call it that to save time. We have to accept that local authority boundaries are often the result more of gerrymandering than of intelligent design. West Lancs is very much part of many aspects of the Liverpool city region. For example, the Merseyrail transport system runs right through west Lancs. It is part of a two-tier system and at some point that anomaly will be recognised. I would like the Minister to say how that will be dealt with and how we can have not just variable geometry, but variable geography.
Lastly, I would like the Minister to say a few more words about proper scrutiny. At times, the political culture in some city regions can be somewhat monolithic—it has been recently. Its tradition is certainly adversarial. I am sure that some political players in the regions would be perfectly happy to meet in private and to strike deals away from the public and opposition members, and probably away from MPs as well. It is therefore necessary to hardwire proper scrutiny arrangements into the system. That is essential not just because it is a good thing, but because there has to be public confidence in the system. There will not be public confidence unless there is transparency and proper scrutiny. I hope that the Minister will address that issue, along with the issue of boundaries.