National Lottery Reform

Debate between John Penrose and Alun Michael

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Westminster Hall

[Alun Michael (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister talking about the need for consistency and predictability. No one could argue with his wish to refresh the funds and to consider whether they are meeting the intended targets. However, the rebalancing of the arrangements for the Big Lottery Fund in particular would have an impact on the distribution of funds which, at the moment, is needs based, ensuring that funds go to individuals and communities in greatest need. Can he reassure us about that? Wales in particular has fears that a reduction in the amount of money going through the Big Lottery Fund would reduce the overall level going to Wales. It would be wonderful if the Minister could set that fear at rest.

[John Penrose]

I am delighted to be able to help the right hon. Gentleman out here, and I hope to provide the reassurance that he is seeking.

We will be phasing in the share changes. Currently, they start from a 16.66% share, and we will raise them to 20% each over the course of the next two years. The right hon. Gentleman will have noticed that in two years the Olympic top slice of lottery funding will come to an end. Therefore, although Big’s share will fall from 50% today to 40% in two years’ time, it will be a smaller slice of a much larger pie, because the Olympic funds will then be part of the whole. As a result, if he does the calculations, he should see a steady increase in cash terms for Big as well as for the other good causes. That is certainly shown by all the figures that I have seen. That outcome is important, which is why we have phased the changes to match the end of the Olympic funding.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Penrose]

I just want to finish this point and then I will be happy to give way again.

I am not sure that the right hon. Gentleman and I will necessarily agree on that basic point of principle about the percentage that should go to the Big Lottery Fund, but I just wanted to reassure him that the situation was perhaps not quite as bad as he feared. Partly, that is because, as I said, the total amount of cash being distributed by the Big Lottery Fund should rise in both Scotland and Wales, along the lines that I was talking about earlier. In addition, a large proportion of money is distributed by other lottery distributors, which also goes to the voluntary and community sector. For example, 48% of the money from the Heritage Lottery Fund has gone to voluntary and community sector organisations and indeed 81% of the projects that the Heritage Lottery Fund supports have been led by the voluntary and community sector. So I hope that that helps him a little, even if it does not satisfy him fully.

[Alun Michael]

I am grateful to the Minister for addressing my point. I was not necessarily arguing that there should be no change in the percentage. I was saying that there is more than one way to achieve a needs-based approach to allocation. One possible way is to look at the other funds, because of course the sort of communities that I am seeking to protect are very interested in issues such as sport, art and heritage. I had hoped that the Minister would reassure me—I think that he is part way to doing so—that that needs-based approach would perhaps be applied more widely and not just in the crude overall percentages.

[John Penrose]

I am not sure that I can reassure the right hon. Gentleman fully on that point. However, I hope that the figures that I have just quoted about other lottery distributors that give money to voluntary and community sector organisations in a way that is perhaps not terribly well publicised show that money is already going to sporting organisations—he gave the example of sport—in needy constituencies such as his.