Israel and Palestine

John Nicolson Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2023 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Percy]

I thank the hon. Gentleman. I meant since the events of 7 October. I am not sure whether anybody else has had the opportunity to spend time in the communities that were attacked in the most horrific way on 7 October and to spend time with the survivors and with the families of the hostages from those communities, so I will avail the House of my experience there this afternoon.

Let me come to the three petitions. Of course, in relation to the second petition, we all want to see humanitarian aid being facilitated and delivered into Gaza, so I have no issue with that petition—absolutely not. We all wish to see that. It would be helpful, of course, if Hamas did not steal a lot of the aid and misdirect it towards their terror network, but of course every effort should be put into that aid. However, in terms of the third petition, calling for a ceasefire, I find it incredible that we have people arguing that a ceasefire is achievable with Hamas, who, since 7 October, have made it absolutely clear that it is their intention to commit such atrocities again and again. There can be no ceasefire with Hamas—none whatever. Their intention, in their own charter, is to seek the annihilation of not just every Jew in Israel but every Jew on this planet. Let us not pretend for a moment that there is any credible option of a ceasefire with Hamas. That is a position, I am pleased to say, that both the Opposition Front Bench and my own Government’s Front Bench support.

[John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Perhaps he can explain to us what his long-term objective is. Will the citizens of Gaza be bombed indefinitely until Hamas surrender?

[Andrew Percy]

The question that the hon. Member should be asking is, what is the long-term strategy of the—

[John Nicolson]

I will ask the question that I want to ask.

[Andrew Percy]

The hon. Member has had his intervention. He does not get to shout from a sedentary position again; he gets to listen to the response. That is the polite way in which debates operate in this House.

It is a very clear position that Hamas must be degraded to such a point that they can have no further involvement in the governance of the Gaza strip. That is the position of this Government; it is the position of Governments across Europe; it is the position of the United States Government and of many others around the world.

When I visited Israel less than a month after the attacks took place, I went to the place where bodies were being identified. I saw those bodies, and I saw those body parts that were still awaiting identification. It was one of the most shocking and horrendous things that I have ever seen or have ever smelled.

I also visited Kibbutz Kfar Aza, which is a kibbutz that was founded by peaceniks—it was actually founded by Egyptian Jews. It is a community that was led by Ofir Libstein, who was a man known for his desire for peace and was in the process of trying to seek a joint-employment zone with Gaza so that Jews from Israel could work alongside Gazans. He was picked out specifically by Hamas and shot on his front doorstep. The scene in that kibbutz was just utterly horrendous.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Nicolson (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

As of today, it is estimated that 17,000 have been killed in Gaza—around 7,000 of the dead are children, and 63 journalists have been killed. Israel has a right to defend itself; the attack on innocent Israeli civilians was wicked beyond description. But surely we can agree that what we have been witnessing long ago tipped from justifiable self-defence into brutal attack.

Most of the world watches, horrified by the continuing heavy, deadly, inhumane bombardment of a tiny patch of land, the Gaza strip, and of the terrified and traumatised people living there—dying there. Israel tells them to flee, but to flee where? Where do people flee if every border is closed? When they do try to flee, they are bombed. International law says that care must be taken to safeguard civilians. What care is Israel taking? It has bombed schools, hospitals and homes. A university was flattened. Collective punishment is another war crime.

These war crimes are committed not by a monstrous terrorist group such as Hamas, but by a country that we laud as the only democracy in the region. Most Palestinians and Mediterranean people had no time for the zealotry of Hamas, but who will the orphaned children of Gaza turn to when they crawl out of the rubble? Bitterness and hatred have been planted deep in the souls of innocents. They will remember these weeks for the rest of their lives.

What of the UK? Surely we have a special responsibility, as the former occupying power. Our abstention on the UN ceasefire resolution on Friday shamed us. Labour’s abstention on the ceasefire motion in this Parliament shamed its party leadership. Many honourable MPs stood up against the intense pressure they had to endure from their party Whips, but what is Labour doing abstaining on an issue such as this? At what point will the Labour leadership realise how desperately out of step it is with public opinion and decency?

Only four Back-Bench Tories have thought the most crucial—

[Alison Thewliss]

They are not even Tories.

[John Nicolson]

I beg your pardon—I am not wearing my glasses. I will do that again for the edit. How can so few Conservatives turn up to a debate such as this? It really is dreadful. How can Tory and Labour Front Benchers watch and stay silent? How can the Labour leader, watching this carnage and cruelty, say the Israeli Government are within their rights to withhold water from children—yet another crime? The Labour leadership’s volte-face, when it comes, will be excruciating to watch.

UK neutrality, food to the starving, water, electricity for the hospitals, a halt to the bombardment and death; that is all that our constituents want us to argue for and vote in favour of—basic humanity. Otherwise, where does it all end? I suspect that, far from being weakened, extremist groups will be strengthened, which would be the worst possible outcome.

The hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) said that the bombardment must continue indefinitely, until Hamas surrender. Hamas are not going to surrender. Why should innocent Palestinians trapped in Gaza pay the price, with this wicked organisation, Hamas, raining terror down upon them? Why should ordinary people pay the price?

This conflict cannot be won by military means. If we study the history, we must surely know that. Only a ceasefire and negotiations can stop this carnage, so I call on colleagues on both sides of the House to raise their voices for peace and an immediate ceasefire.