National Minimum Wage

Debate between John McDonnell and Vince Cable

Wednesday 15th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

The rise to £20,000 is a fourfold increase. However, the big difference is in applying that fine per worker rather than per company. That is a considerable escalation of the penalties. I hope that we will have the support of Opposition Members in voting that through.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Is not the difference between this country and the countries cited by the right hon. Gentleman that they still have vibrant trade union rights and are not condemned annually by the International Labour Organisation, as this country is, for undermining trade union rights?

[Vince Cable]

Those countries have had a variety of Governments, both left-wing and right-wing. I was simply making the point that it is possible to have a perfectly viable system without a national minimum wage. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that in practice what is needed is either a strong system of trade union rights or a national minimum wage. We have now all accepted that the national minimum wage is the best system. I think all the minority parties accept that, too.

Zero-hours Contracts

Debate between John McDonnell and Vince Cable

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

The hon. Gentleman has made, in his own way, a point that I have made several times, namely that a zero-hours contract may be a symptom rather than the cause of the problem. Many employers are indeed up against it, on the margin of survival—those in Northern Ireland probably more than most—and use such contracts in order to survive. That presents challenges of its own.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I think that the overall issue of enforceability is critical. Without trade union rights, these commissions and contracts become unenforceable.

I should also like the consultation to consider a public interest issue. The example of track maintenance was given earlier, and it is a matter that I have raised on previous occasions. Network Rail, for instance, has contracted out a large amount of work to subcontractors, who have then subcontracted it themselves. Some track maintenance workers are now employed by as many as eight or a dozen employers, and are all on zero-hours contracts. That has undermined the safety regime that we introduced following the disasters at Southall, Paddington and elsewhere.

[Vince Cable]

I was not aware of that particular detail. I hope that the rail regulators and the Health and Safety Executive are taking it fully into account.

An issue that has not been mentioned today, but which arose several times during our discussions, is the relationship with jobseeker’s allowance. Many people feel that if they decline a zero-hours contract there will be a sanction, and they will lose their benefits. I can make it absolutely clear that that is not the case, but during the consultation we will examine the processes that are being followed just to reassure people that there is no hidden sanction.

We recognise that zero-hours contracts present a real problem. We also recognise that it is a very difficult problem, which may be why our predecessors did not engage with it. There are issues of definition, and there are enormous gaps in the database. However, I can assure the House that if, as a result of the consultation, we identify serious issues for which there are practical remedies, we will take action.

Blacklisting

Debate between John McDonnell and Vince Cable

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

May I just finish this argument?

I am genuinely baffled by the way in which the hon. Member for Streatham and his colleagues have approached this matter. He could have come and talked to me about this subject at any time. He knows perfectly well that I hold regular meetings in my office with his own colleagues on a Monday evening, and if they have individual cases that they are worried about, particularly confidential cases that they do not want to discuss elsewhere, we can discuss them. I am very happy to discuss them. Nobody has come to me on this issue in the past two and a half years, however.

I regularly meet the general secretary of the TUC. He—now she—is a valued stakeholder, and I talk to her on the same basis that I talk to the CBI. We have regular meetings, and at no stage in those meetings has anybody ever asked to discuss the issue of blacklisting. I meet national officers of the GMB, of Unite and of the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians, and occasionally their general secretaries, and none of them has ever raised the issue of blacklisting. So why has the subject suddenly surfaced in an Opposition day debate? It is difficult to get my head round what is going on here.

[John McDonnell]

I want justice to come out of this debate. The right hon. Gentleman will know—he can look at the Hansard record—that I have been raising this issue for more than a decade. On the point about past issues, things changed when the evidence exposed the potential of police or security services involvement. I raised that with the Prime Minister on 21 March 2012, and asked for an investigation. That was at the time when he was setting up the Leveson inquiry, and I felt that this matter was on a par with that. The response that I got from him was, to be frank, truculent. He suggested that the police should investigate police involvement in blacklisting. There is a qualitative difference now that we have the information from the Select Committee, particularly about the past involvement of the police and the security services.

[Vince Cable]

I have read in the paper—and the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) has now said—that there is an issue affecting the police force and the security services, but has he, or the Opposition spokesman or anyone else, referred the matter to the Independent Police Complaints Commission? Has it been referred to the security services Investigatory Powers Tribunal? It might be that such referrals did not lead anywhere and that we need to look at doing something else, but were they made in the first place?

Pub Companies

Debate between John McDonnell and Vince Cable

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

I am afraid that I cannot offer the hon. Gentleman the assurances he wants on beer duty. I supported the Government’s approach to the taxation. On his drinking habits, I will only say that, like several of us, I am still haunted by having signed the temperance pledge aged 11.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I apologise to the Secretary of State, because I will have to leave for another debate soon. There is a sense of urgency in my constituency about his matter, however, so will he give an indication of the time scale for the introduction of a statutory code?

[Vince Cable]

We want to get on with this as quickly as possible. We have to launch a consultation, receive the results and then act on them, hopefully over the spring. That is the time horizon we are looking at.

Directors’ Pay

Debate between John McDonnell and Vince Cable

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

Yes, there is an important role for remuneration committees and the consultants who advise them. One thing I did not mention was the effort being made to ensure that fees for remuneration consultants are properly declared, so that there is more transparency in that aspect of the process.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I welcome the statement, not least because I proposed an amendment to the Finance Bill to the effect that we should introduce a binding vote. I appreciate that the Government were consulting during that period. However, the shareholder vote is a binary vote—a straightforward yes or no. Does the Secretary of State envisage a process in which shareholders can amend the pay policy, for example to introduce a ratio between the highest and lowest paid within companies?

[Vince Cable]

It will be possible for shareholders’ representatives to work out the ratio because of the information that will become available. We suggested that it would not be sensible to make that metric compulsory, because it can be misleading. I have previously described to the House the anomalies that can arise. A company with a large number of low-paid employees would have a big ratio, but a company that has outsourced such employees, which might be less socially responsible, will none the less have a better ratio, for entirely artificial reasons. We do not attach overriding importance to that measure, but the hon. Gentleman is right that it should not simply be a question of saying yes or no. Shareholders must engage with the company should there be a failure to pass a binding vote to produce a more satisfactory outcome. That is a process, not simply an event.

Sunday Trading (London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games) Bill [Lords]

Debate between John McDonnell and Vince Cable

Monday 30th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Let us be clear. Will employers be legally obliged to inform their workers of the new regulations?

[Vince Cable]

No, they are not legally obliged, but we are working with them to ensure that they do. I think most will welcome the commitment and loyalty of their work force, and they will take good measures to ensure that they are informed. There is no legal compulsion.