Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between John Healey and David Gauke

Tuesday 19th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

This is one of those rare occasions when the Chief Secretary can be like the man from Del Monte and say yes.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The northern powerhouse plans in south Yorkshire are at risk. In the 1980s, our economic regeneration was kick-started by funding from Europe and it still supports small businesses, training and apprenticeships, so may I give the Chief Secretary another chance? Will he guarantee that the £174 million that has been pledged to south Yorkshire under the current programme will be paid in full?

[Mr Gauke]

The right hon. Gentleman will understand, as a former Treasury Minister, that there is a need for consistency. My answer remains that we will make an announcement soon. We recognise the point that he is making and the desire to remove uncertainty, but I am not in a position to make an announcement this morning.

Finance Bill

Debate between John Healey and David Gauke

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 7 makes changes to the procedure for the granting of interim payments in common law court claims relating to taxation matters. Its effect will be to limit the circumstances in which interim payments may be granted in the rare tax cases originating in a common law claim as opposed to appeal through the tax tribunal. The new clause will bring the treatment of tax cases under the two routes into closer alignment. It will simplify the process and lessen administrative burdens for the Revenue and for claimants.

I should like to set out some of the background to this change. It corrects a difference in treatment with respect to the granting of interim remedies on tax disputes that arise depending on whether the claim is appealed to the tax tribunal or originates before the High Court, or the Court of Session if in Scotland. Generally speaking, appeals against a decision by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs on a tax matter are appealed to the tax tribunal. This system is provided for in statutory tax legislation and is the standard route of appeal for a taxpayer who disagrees with a decision by HMRC.

There is no procedure for the granting of interim payments under this system. Instead, tax is paid or repaid as appropriate when a decision is made on the case. This is a sensible arrangement. The interim award procedure was not designed to be a remedy in a tax dispute. Its common application is to victims who have suffered serious injury to their health but the long-term prognosis leaves it unclear how much they should receive. An interim payment allows them to have enough money to make adaptation to their homes and to pay for care. Clearly, the complex adjudication of a tax dispute is a very different circumstance unsuited to the application of anticipatory payments in advance of final judgment. It is therefore right that the normal practice in tax disputes is not to grant an interim payment.

However, difficulty arises where a tax claim originates in common law. In such circumstances, it would currently fall outside the scope of the tribunal system and would therefore be appealed instead to the High Court. Here claimants may obtain interim payment before the matter is finally settled. Such payments may then need to be returned to the Revenue as the direction of jurisprudence changes at different stages of litigation. This back-and-forth process is administratively burdensome on both parties and adds to the cost of the litigation. Furthermore, it exposes the Revenue to a risk of non-recovery in the event that the taxpayer becomes insolvent after obtaining an interim payment that it is later required to hand back.

Let me set out a little more detail on the new clause. The measure will operate by limiting the power of a court to grant an interim payment to a claimant whose application for such payment is founded, at least in part, on a point of law which has yet to be finally determined. The court will, however, still be able to grant an interim payment to whatever extent is necessary to fund the ongoing litigation, as well as in some other defined circumstances where there is a strong case for granting such award. The measure relates only to those rare tax cases that fall outside the scope of the tribunal system. It is a procedural matter, not a change in tax policy.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The Minister said that such cases are rare. How many are there each year, and how quickly will they be dealt with under the system proposed in new clause 7 as compared with now?

[Mr Gauke]

How quickly a particular case will be dealt with depends on the length of time it takes to be resolved. The right hon. Gentleman will know from his considerable experience as a Treasury Minister that some of these cases can take a number of years. It is worth pointing out that, by and large, large corporates tend to be involved in this type of litigation. The length of time it will take for a case to be resolved is ultimately unaffected by these changes. Their only significance is that there will not be interim payments in these rare cases.

The right hon. Gentleman asked how many cases there are per year. I cannot give him the number straight away, but it is very low. In the vast majority of cases, disputes are taken through the tax tribunal. As I say, this is about making common law cases consistent with tax tribunal cases. It is difficult to give the precise number of cases per year, but we are talking about low numbers.

[Mr Gauke]

We have introduced it at this point because recent jurisprudence has crystallised our view in this regard. As I say, we want consistency between common law cases and tax tribunal cases. A degree of volatility has been created in terms of tax revenues that none of us should welcome. In short, the answer to the hon. Lady’s question is that the reason is recent jurisprudence.

Let me give the right hon. Gentleman a little more detail in response to his question about rare cases. HMRC is aware of fewer than 10 strands of litigation where tax issues are being handled through the High Court. That is not to say that they would necessarily all involve interim payments, but I hope that that gives some sense of the scale of the issue. As I say, it is a procedural matter.

[John Healey]

It is helpful of the Minister to give the House an indication of the scale in terms of the number of cases. Can he also indicate the scale in terms of the amount of tax at stake in such cases?

[Mr Gauke]

The first point to make is that this does not ultimately change the amount of tax at stake, because a litigant will either win or not win. If a litigant who ultimately wins has not had access to an interim payment as a consequence of this measure, that does not change what they will ultimately receive. Some of these cases involve large sums of money, sometimes many millions of pounds. In some cases, interim payments have been very significant. However, I stress that this does not ultimately change how much money will end up in the pocket of the litigant. It is a question of timing and ensuring that we have some consistency.

Turning to why we are doing this now, it follows recent jurisprudence of the Court relating to the application of the interim awards procedure. This jurisprudence has crystallised our view that the interim payment procedure is not suitable for complex tax disputes. There is also an element of risk management in this. HMRC is routinely involved in litigation where the tax at stake may be for very high sums of money. The granting of payments on an interim basis before a final decision has been reached contributes to the volatility of tax revenues. By limiting the application of the interim payment procedure in common law court claims relating to taxation matters, and bringing the system into better alignment with what is standard practice in the tax tribunal, the new clause will cut down on complex work associated with calculating claims on a contingent basis before matters relating to liability and quantum have been resolved by the judiciary.

Budget Leak Inquiry

Debate between John Healey and David Gauke

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

Within the constraints of the question, I will just say yes.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

Will the Minister concede that the Chancellor has shot himself in the foot with such widespread leaks, because all that he had to announce yesterday was the tax grab on grannies, which he hoped people would not notice? Will he concede that the leak inquiry that may or may not be going on now in the Treasury should consider the leaks of Office for Budget Responsibility judgments, and that now is the time to put the OBR on a proper independent basis similar to that of the Office for National Statistics?

[Mr Gauke]

Of course the OBR is independent, and that may be some irritation to Opposition Members, given its conclusions about the failure of the 50p rate.

National Insurance Contributions Bill

Debate between John Healey and David Gauke

Thursday 13th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s remarks. The position is set out in the coalition agreement, and the October 2010 spending review met the Government’s commitment on HNS funding in full, and did so without changing the allocation of national insurance contributions to the NHS. The effect of our policy is to maintain the level of national insurance contributions allocated to the NHS and to allocate additional revenues from rate rises to the national insurance fund. This helps ensure that plans for payment of pensions and other contributory benefits are sustainable in the long term. We can protect pensioners by the new triple-lock, which guarantees each and every year a rise in the basic state pension in line with earnings, prices or a 2.5% increase, whichever is greater.

In ordinary circumstances, we should expect contributions to rise broadly in line with earnings, and therefore to rise in real terms. Therefore, under the Government’s proposals we should expect allocations to the NHS to rise in real terms in a typical year. Amendment 8 would require the NAO to report on how much would be required from the additional rates in order for the health service allocation to grow in real terms every year. The Government’s view is that this would be a pointless exercise, since whether or not the NHS allocation grows, the Government have decided on the amount the NHS will spend. In any case, the amount allocated to the health service from national insurance contributions would, other factors being equal, be expected to grow in line with earnings and therefore grow in real terms every year under the terms of the Bill. This amendment is therefore unnecessary, and I recommend that the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne withdraw it.

I have focused my remarks narrowly on what the amendment is about and why it does not do what is intended. However, I must remind the House of Labour Members’ comments on the subject of health spending more widely. The right hon. Gentleman’s predecessor as shadow Health Secretary, who is now shadow Education Secretary, has said:

“It is irresponsible to increase NHS spending in real terms within the overall financial envelope that he, as chancellor, is setting.”

It was also not that long ago that the shadow Chancellor, whose remarks we study closely, said that there was

“no logic, sense or rationality”

to the policy of ring-fencing NHS spending. I am pleased that Labour Members are now taking a different approach. It has been clear from the remarks made by the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne that they are in favour of real-terms increases in health spending, and we are pleased that the Government have won that argument.

[John Healey]

The Minister was talking about the shadow Chancellor and the approach we take to the decisions that the Government have made on NHS funding. May I therefore remind the Minister of what my right hon. Friend said when he so ably responded to the spending review statement? He said:

“We support moves to ring-fence the health budget”.—[Official Report, 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 968.]

[Mr Gauke]

That was the shadow Chancellor’s position then, but I believe that a few days earlier he had said that there was

“no logic, sense or rationality”

to the policy. If he has changed his position, Government Members would welcome that. The Prime Minister—my “big boss”, as the shadow Health Secretary has described him—has said that we are

“confident that we will fulfil our goal of real-terms increases every year in the NHS.”—[Official Report, 15 December 2010; Vol. 520, c. 902.]

That will occur, regardless of whether any amendment such as that proposed by the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne is included in the Bill; this is a matter of spending and this mechanism is not terribly helpful. Given those comments, I hope that he will withdraw the amendment, although I am not optimistic.