Health and Social Care Bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Debate between John Healey and Andrew Percy

Tuesday 21st June 2011 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

One of the deep flaws in the motion is that it is hard to see how the Committee can properly consider the changes that the Government say they want to make without being able to consider the consequences for other parts of the Bill and other parts of the NHS.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Moderation in these debates is always to be welcomed. Surely the right hon. Gentleman must see that he cannot have it both ways. He cannot complain about the money and the length of time spent on the listening exercise. When I was in the House last week to listen to the statement, he said it was time to get on and get it done, yet he argues that we should drag the process out for even longer. He cannot have it both ways.

[John Healey]

I can and I have. This is a reckless and needless reorganisation, which has led to confusion and chaos over the past year. If the House does not help to get the legislation right by doing its proper job, that chaos and confusion and the wasted cost—money that should be spent on patient care—will continue.

NHS Reorganisation

Debate between John Healey and Andrew Percy

Wednesday 17th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[John Healey]

The GP fundholding experiment took place in a completely different context—within an NHS that still had an area-based plan and still had bodies accountable through the Secretary of State to Parliament. In the end, however, it did not work and we stopped it.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that there is some kind of ideological disagreement going on in his own mind, given that the last Labour Government did exactly the same thing to head teachers by bringing alternative providers into schools and giving them control over budgets and what services to deliver? Our proposals for GPs are exactly the same—aiming to put in charge the professionals who deliver services and have contact with the people who use them.

[John Healey]

I thought the hon. Gentleman was in his place at the start of the debate. In that case, he will have heard me say that one reason for having an Opposition day debate on both health and education is that we see many of the same ideological fingerprints over the plans for education and for health. These are Tory ideological fingerprints, and I hope that this will become clearer as the debate progresses.

Let us make no mistake: if these changes go ahead, patients will rightly question whether GPs’ decisions are about the best treatment for them or about the best interest of the GP budget and consortium business. The public will find “commercial in confidence” stamped over many of the most important decisions taken about our NHS services. Members of Parliament wanting to hold Ministers to account in future when hospitals go bust, there are no contracted services for constituents or there is a serious failure in the system will be told, “It’s nothing to do with me”.