Parliamentary Reform

Joe Benton Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair)]

A lot of people have requested to speak and we want to allow as many as possible to do so. I appeal to hon. Members to be as brief as they can, and we will do our best to get everybody in.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

It is a pleasure to hold this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Benton, and I thank you for your guidance on how matters should proceed. No doubt that was appreciated by all hon. Members in keeping within the spirit of the debate. I am also grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for providing the opportunity for an initial debate on parliamentary modernisation and reform. I look forward to hearing about the experiences of other new Members, and to learning from those who have been MPs for longer.

This debate is part of a call for more open and efficient politics. If we do not continue visibly to modernise the way in which we work, I worry that the public will—rightly—fail to be convinced that politics has changed for the better. It is more vital than ever for Parliament to ensure that its work is efficient, transparent and accountable. Following my first six months in this place, those are not the first three words that come to mind as I consider the way we conduct ourselves.

Our political process is still struggling to regain its legitimacy and credibility in the eyes of the public. Following the expenses scandal, 232 new MPs entered Parliament in 2010. It is now time to shake off the image—and in some cases the reality—of the “old boys club” and move Westminster into the 21st century. I pay tribute to the extensive work that has already been done. In particular, the work of the Wright Committee led to important changes in the management of the business of the House, not least with the establishment of the Backbench Business Committee, which has allowed this debate to take place.

There is still a long way to go. Following the expenses scandal, public suspicion about the behaviour of MPs has not gone away, and many people seriously ask what exactly it is that MPs do. How does Parliament work on a day-to-day basis? How can we better scrutinise legislation and serve our constituents with maximum efficacy and efficiency? In years gone by, MPs were accused of being too Westminster focused and of not working enough in their constituencies. Now some suggest that the pendulum has swung in the other direction, and that some MPs spend too much time in their constituencies, and not enough time properly scrutinising the legislation for which they are responsible. Now is a good time to take stock of that, and discuss what the balance should be between time spent on constituency casework and scrutiny of legislation.

Our constituents want us to have the time to know what we are voting on and to hold the Government to account, but they also want us to deal with constituency work and to know about their concerns. How much time a week should MPs spend in understanding what they are voting on in Parliament, and how much time should they spend in their constituency? We will all hold different views on that. It strikes me that it might be interesting to see an official job description for the role of MP. That is not something I have ever seen, but if it existed it would be interesting, and people would probably have different views about the different clauses in it.

We all have our own views about the way that the procedures in this place could be improved, and I look forward to hearing from others during the debate. I have published some of my own ideas in a report entitled, “The case for parliamentary reform”, which I circulated to colleagues last November. Today, I make the same suggestion as in the report: the procedures and processes of the House of Commons are in urgent need of reform. That is hardly a new or novel observation. However, in a time of austerity when the rest of the country is urged to be more efficient with scarce resources, perhaps we should look at our own practices and at how efficient we are being with taxpayers’ resources in using our time in Parliament.

Some of the reforms in my report build on previous proposals by the Wright Committee and the now disbanded Select Committee on the Modernisation of the House of Commons. A few of the new proposals draw on experiences from other legislatures, while others were—I admit—rejected by previous Parliaments at a different time. However, that is no reason why a new Parliament in new circumstances should not examine those proposals again.

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[Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

I apologise to the hon. Lady because I will not be here for the whole debate. As well as an interest in this issue, I have a long-standing commitment to and interest in affordable credit, which is being debated elsewhere. I have something of a reputation in the north for being macho, but on this occasion I agree almost wholeheartedly with the hon. Lady and want to encourage her, not necessarily to pin down specific hours, but to look to provide certainty and to avoid what my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Joan Ruddock) described—by-elections every three months, which is what happened 24 years ago, when I came into the House.

If I may, I will encourage the hon. Lady not to get bogged down on hours, because other changes in this place could get us into at least the 20th, if not the 21st century, and allow us, with discretion, to vote more sensibly, provide certainty and, above all, demonstrate that we have understood the changes that have happened because of devolution to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and our relationship with the European Parliament, all of which have taken shape since I came—

[Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind right hon. and hon. Members that interventions must be kept as terse as possible. An awful lot of Members want to speak this afternoon, and I want to be as fair as I can.

[Caroline Lucas]

I thank the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) for his intervention, which was incredibly valuable. He rightly reminds me that the Procedure Committee is examining sitting hours. I am very glad about that. I hope that this debate can produce some agreement that at least there should be a mechanism whereby we can consider all these issues again. We may disagree about the details of family-friendly hours or exactly when different debates should happen, but I want to gauge how much interest there is for some types of change and, if there is some interest, how we can make progress.

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[Caroline Lucas]

rose—

[Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair)]

Order. Before the hon. Lady continues, may I point out that she is about 18 minutes into her speech, but that so far there have been at least 10 interventions. It is entirely a matter for the Chamber, but I suggest that to enable the hon. Lady to make her points we minimise interventions.

[Caroline Lucas]

It is probably out of order for me to reflect upon that, Mr Benton, but I would argue that one way to improve our debates would be to have more interventions and fewer set pieces. I hope that I am not being disrespectful.

I want to make one last point about electronic voting. If we make the process of casting votes less time-consuming, MPs could vote on more aspects of Bills. As a result, the public would have a clearer record on which to hold us to account. A system that inherently discourages voting on the specifics of Bills because it takes too long to vote is a problem. It also requires less thought from those charged with passing legislation through the House. Speeding up voting would enable us to be better legislators by giving better scrutiny.

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[Mr Weir]

I was just coming to that point. The hon. Lady is correct. The whole point about the petitions procedure in the Scottish Parliament is that by raising a petition, the public can instigate action in the Parliament. The petition is not just something that is filed away as of interest to somebody; the Committee considers how it should proceed. It may hold a hearing at which the petitioners can put their points in person, or through representatives, and it may call, and has often called, Ministers to give evidence on the issue. The Committee does not have the power to impose a solution, but as the hon. Lady said, it can recommend to other Committees and to the Government that action be taken.

Constituents and members of the public who have a valid point have an engagement with the Parliament to get their point across directly. They can be assisted by their MSPs, but their MSPs cannot deliver the petition; it has to done by members of the public. It is a way of making sure that there is engagement with the citizen. That could also be a way for this Parliament to have that engagement. That need not be an exact example; this Parliament deals with a much larger population, and there is a much larger number of MPs and constituencies, but it is not beyond our wit to look at ways to have that engagement with the public. Everything does not need to be channelled through a Member of Parliament. The public will respect this Parliament much more if they can have direct access, and there are ways to do that.

A point was raised about explaining the meaning of an amendment. It is already possible to do that in a Committee, so MPs need to look at their own actions sometimes, but I ask Members who have sat on Public Bill Committees, how often is it actually done? It is rare now, in my experience. It was introduced in the previous Parliament as a trial, at the same time as laptops, if I remember correctly. MPs do not seem to be using the procedure, so we have to look at that. If we are serious about modernisation, and if these issues are raised, let us use them and show that we are interested in pushing forward with modernisation; otherwise, debates such as this are utterly pointless.

Parliament has, in recent years, through the expenses scandal and other things, lost a lot of its reputation. It may seem strange for me to make such points, as someone who wishes to get out of this Parliament, but while we are here it is important that we engage with the public and find ways to enable them to see us as relevant to their lives. If we fail to do that, it will increase the democratic deficit and will prove a grave danger to our future.

[Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair)]

Before I call the next speaker, may I point out that the proceedings will now finish at 5.45 pm? I propose to start the wind-ups at 5.5 pm and there are still a lot of Members indicating that they wish to speak so I again appeal for brevity.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Joe Benton (in the Chair)]

Order. I will call one more speaker, but there are only a couple of minutes left before the start of the winding-up speeches. I call Joseph Johnson.