Legislative Definition of Sex

Debate between Joanna Cherry and Kirsty Blackman

Monday 12th June 2023 Westminster Hall

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I thank the petitioners who brought the petitions forward and the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), who introduced them. I agree with the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard), who started off by saying that being non-binary or trans is valid. I will start off with that. I am going to offer a tiny bit of rebuttal in terms of the debate that has been had, but mostly I want to give voice to my trans constituents and the trans people who have contacted me about their concerns. I reject wholeheartedly any rhetoric that there has been in this room that has painted trans people as potential predators. There are potential predators, but to lump all trans people together as potential predators is to completely demonise a protected group.

I want to pick up on the fact that a number of Members have used the phrase “ordinary people”, when they mean “non-trans people”. There are an awful lot of people in my constituency who would consider themselves to be entirely ordinary, and who also happen to be trans. They are also extraordinary in their own ways, I am sure, but “ordinary people” is an exclusionary phrase when it is used as it has been by some Members in this debate.

Before I move on to discuss what my constituents have said, I want to say that I will be incredibly annoyed if I get a whole load of abuse on social media after this debate suggesting that I do not know what I am talking about because I am a straight woman, because it is entirely up to me what my sexual orientation is. For people to continually call me “straight” on social media is immensely frustrating, and I wish that it would stop.

We have talked about biological sex a number of times, but not one person has been able to explain what it is. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) gave a good stab at it, talking about XX and XY chromosomes. I have no idea what my chromosomes are. I assume that they are probably XY, but I do not know—I have not got a clue what they are. I have a fair idea of what my genitals look like and how they compare with how other people’s look, but if we are talking about biological sex there needs to be a definition that everybody in this room can agree with. Nobody has been able to provide such a definition.

We continue to fail trans people, and we continue to fail women. Legislators continue to fail both groups, who are considered and treated as somewhat lesser in society. That is the case. We are a room of cis people debating trans people once again, and hatred and bile causes further risk for trans people. What will the impact be on trans people?

[Joanna Cherry]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Kirsty Blackman]

No.

We already have a situation where people are gatekept for going to the toilet. We already have a situation where people are attacked for the way they choose to present themselves.

I have constituents who came to me separately in relation to this issue. One of them said, “I’m not a danger. I just want to get on with my life and be able to go to the loo when I’m shopping.” Surely that is something we should want for everybody. Everybody should feel comfortable and able to access services. People should not have their two teenage daughters told that they cannot go into a loo because they have short hair and wear trousers rather than skirts, as happened to one of my friends. If we have a situation where people can tell what someone’s biological sex is, clearly they are gatekeeping the wrong people. Why are they continuing to do that if biological sex is so completely obvious to everyone?

Another trans person came to me. They were not the first to come to me with concerns of this nature. I will paraphrase what they said. When they heard about biological sex being included in the Equality Act and this change being made, they said, “What hope is left? Should I just kill myself now and be done with it?”

They will not rest until trans people are excluded from public life. This is what is happening as a result of this dog-whistle politics to try to demonise my constituents, who just want to get on with their lives, live in peace and go shopping in peace.

Banking Misconduct and the FCA

Debate between Joanna Cherry and Kirsty Blackman

Thursday 10th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman]

This has not been widely covered in anything that has been published so far in relation to GRG. It would therefore be incumbent on any inquiry to take that into account.

The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) mentioned the issues with the section 166 report and what was initially published. He made an important point, and I echo his sentiments. For hon. Members who have not read the report, it makes for devastating reading and is worth looking at.

The reality is that the redress scheme is not good enough. For a start, it does not have enough money to compensate victims adequately for what has happened to them. RBS will never be able to afford to fund all the claims being made by small or medium-sized businesses. As the redress scheme is run by the bank itself, it is fairly easy for the bank just to pay out to the victims, where the bank now has majority ownership and is therefore one of the main creditors. If there is not adequate external scrutiny, such situations can arise without check.

GRG was in the wrong. Everybody in this House agrees that GRG was in the wrong. RBS agrees that GRG is in the wrong, which is why it has a redress scheme. It is clear that the time for talking has passed. All of us standing around here are clear that something needs to be done. This issue has united the House, which does not happen very often. It is in the power of the Government to take actual action and to create a real system with proper redress.

[Joanna Cherry]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Minister needs to give us some tangible gains to take away to our constituents—including my constituents Mr and Mrs Neave—as a result of today’s debate. We have been going around the houses for years now, as the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) said.

[Kirsty Blackman]

I absolutely agree. The time for talking about this is over. It is time for the Government to take action. It is time for action to ensure that all our constituents can claim the redress that they should and that all business practices that devastated people’s lives are properly brought to light.

Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill

Debate between Joanna Cherry and Kirsty Blackman

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 8th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman]

I picked South Korea and car manufacturing because the percentage is particularly high. However, many other areas of trade and exports have percentage requirements. Because we have not needed rules of origin for products from the UK—we have been able to add all the EU content—it has not been a consideration for businesses. They have been able to export if they can prove that a certain percentage is from the EU. It is an issue not only for the trade deal with Korea, but for all sorts of trade deals that the UK has because it is part of the EU. The concern is not that we will not be able to do new trading, but that our current trading will become a major issue as of March 2019, if we do not get the appropriate rollover and grandfathering in place.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

Perhaps my hon. Friend will join me in correcting the hon. Member for Walsall North (Eddie Hughes), as South Korea is very important for Scottish trade. As a result of the EU-negotiated deal, whisky goes to South Korea on a 0% tariff. The former chief executive of the Scottish Whisky Association has expressed the view that without the heft of the EU, Scottish whisky—the UK’s biggest export—would not have had the benefit of that deal.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Joanna Cherry and Kirsty Blackman

3rd reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 25th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Kirsty Blackman]

I agree with my colleague. We have a portion of VAT devolved to the Scottish Parliament, which does not make a huge amount of sense. Although we obviously welcome any new powers coming to the Scottish Parliament, it would be much better if we had control over all of VAT, rather than have a portion of the income from VAT coming to us.

The Scottish police and the fire and rescue service are charged VAT unlike Highways England, which is a national English body, and unlike London Legacy, which is a national UK-wide body. The UK Government have created exemptions for both of those organisations, but not for Scottish police and Scottish fire. This costs the Scottish people, because Scottish police and Scottish fire are having to pay this VAT bill to the UK Government rather than having this money to spend.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

This VAT charge is costing Scotland’s emergency services tens of millions of pounds a year. Does my hon. Friend agree that our constituents would rather that this money was spent on fighting crime and funding emergency services in Scotland than on plugging the holes in the Tory Government’s budget because of their poor financial planning and budgeting?

[Kirsty Blackman]

I absolutely agree with my colleague.

In June 2016, it was reported that, since it was formed three years previously, Scotland’s single police force has paid £76.5 million in VAT, and it remains unable to reclaim that tax. The UK Government have created exemptions for other bodies that they see as important. Why do they see London Legacy and Highways England as more important than Scottish police and Scottish fire? We again ask the UK Government to change that.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 57 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 58

IPT: Standard Rate

Question proposed, That clause 58 stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsty Blackman]

The Minister is absolutely correct about the huge amount of cross-party support for the general thrust of the soft drinks industry levy and the move towards tackling obesity, particularly childhood obesity. However, we are concerned that the levy does not go far enough and that the Government could have chosen to close certain loopholes when drafting the Bill.

The single biggest cause of preventable cancer is obesity. More than 18,100 cancers a year are associated with excess weight. Cancer Research says that sugary drinks are the No. 1 source of sugar for 11 to 18-year-olds, which is a pretty terrifying statistic, and I appreciate that the Government have chosen to take action.

I am concerned about the Government’s response on milk-based drinks and about the fact that they are excluded from the levy.

[Joanna Cherry]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem with omitting high-sugar milk-based drinks from the provisions is that parents may mistakenly think that they are healthier than soft drinks that are subject to the extra tax, when that is simply not the case?

[Kirsty Blackman]

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. It is true, as the Minister has said, that milk-based drinks contain protein, calcium and other nutrients, but so does milk. Children could just drink milk without the added sugar. I do not think people realise quite how much added sugar there is in such products. The same is true of pasta sauce. When parents see a milkshake on the shelf, they do not realise that it could have as much sugar in it as a can of fizzy juice.

Leaving the EU: Financial Services

Debate between Joanna Cherry and Kirsty Blackman

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

I rise to speak about the impact of leaving the European Union on the financial sector and the legal profession, with particular reference to my constituency.

An estimated 7,000 of my constituents are employed in the financial services sector. Across the whole city of Edinburgh, there are 34,800 people employed in financial services. Edinburgh is the UK’s second-largest financial centre. It is a major European centre for asset management and asset servicing, and home to the global headquarters of the Royal Bank of Scotland and the UK headquarters of the Green Investment Bank. Edinburgh is the UK’s largest financial capital centre after London by both gross value added and employment. The financial sector in Edinburgh also supports many other jobs in the service sector. Some of the best coffee shops, sandwich shops and restaurants are in my constituency, supplying constituents who work in the financial and legal sectors.

Very worryingly, earlier this week an independent report for the Scottish Parliament’s Economy Committee revealed that Edinburgh’s reliance on financial services is greater than that in any other city in Europe. Therefore, Edinburgh is at most risk of being affected if we lose the protection hon. Members have been speaking about. I pause to pay tribute to those hon. Members who secured this debate.

There are serious concerns about the potential for lost jobs and business if there is a loss of full access to the single market. Leading economists gave evidence to members of the Scottish Parliament on Tuesday on the impact that Brexit and leaving the single market would have on Scotland’s economy. Across Scotland, the financial sector directly and indirectly employs almost 200,000 people, 20,000 of whom are European Union workers. It contributes £8 billion to the economy of Scotland. In fact, Edinburgh’s economy is more reliant on financial services than London’s economy, or indeed any other city’s economy in the UK. As I said earlier, if we look at Edinburgh’s share of financial services, we see that it is markedly ahead of most large European cities.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Is my hon. and learned Friend concerned that the Scottish asset management sector is bigger than that in Frankfurt and in Paris put together? We stand to lose out significantly.

[Joanna Cherry]

Yes, I am concerned about that. Edinburgh’s reliance on financial services is 23.8%, compared with 18.9% in London, 17.3% in Brussels and 17% in Amsterdam. By comparison, Glasgow’s financial services sector is worth about 12.4% to its economy.

This is not fearmongering. Paris and Frankfurt are already angling for some of the jobs that may leave London and Edinburgh if we leave the single market. I attended a briefing last week at which the Irish ambassador spoke. He pointed out that while Britain leaving the European Union poses some problems for the Republic of Ireland, it will also provide some fantastic opportunities for Dublin to attract jobs that we really need in our financial sectors across the UK. In Edinburgh, we really want to hang on to those jobs.

I am happy to say that a lot of people in my constituency are employed in legal and accounting services, which is what I used to do before I came to this place. More than 3,000 of my constituents are employed in the legal services sector. Across Edinburgh, that figure for the legal and accounting sector is closer to 10,000. The Law Society of Scotland has its headquarters in my constituency, and the Faculty of Advocates, of which I am non-practising member, has its headquarters in the neighbouring constituency of Edinburgh East. A lot of lawyers and other people who work in law firms live in my constituency and are worried about the impact of Brexit on legal services. There are many aspects of EU law that have particular relevance to the legal system and professions, including the directive on the mutual recognition of diplomas, the lawyers establishment directive and the lawyers cross-border provision of services directive.