Asbestos in Schools

Debate between Jim Sheridan and Ian Lavery

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

I am extremely grateful for this opportunity to raise the important issue of asbestos in schools. It is an important issue not only for the people who work in the schools but for the parents of the children who are being educated in them.

The recent report on asbestos in schools is welcome, but it is unfortunate that it was not published earlier. We have been waiting more than eight months for its publication, which was always described as imminent. None the less, it provides a useful, informed and welcome background to the debate on the effects of asbestos in schools. Much of it is based on, or responds to, the publication of a report on asbestos in schools by the all-party parliamentary occupational safety and health group, which I chair. I am sure that this report would never have been produced had it not been for the work of the all-party group, the joint union asbestos committee, the GMB and the Asbestos in Schools Group. May I particularly mention Mr Michael Lees, who lost his teacher wife to mesothelioma and has campaigned consistently since?

Let me digress slightly by referring to an exclusive report in The Independent by Andrew Grice, who interviewed the Minister. The report states:

“The Schools Minister warned that Mr Cameron’s announcement of 500 more free schools in the 2015-20 parliament was ‘a number picked out of a hat.’ He warned: ‘The Tories want to scatter 500 new schools around the country, regardless of whether they will be good quality schools or whether they are actually needed. This is a barmy way to make policy.’”

The report continued:

“He added: ‘Worse still, it would mean a £4bn raid on other budgets, consigning children and teachers to crumbling classrooms and leaving some without a school place at all. It is impossible to justify.’

Mr Laws claimed Downing Street had not wanted to go public before the election about the need to tackle asbestos in school buildings, even though it was a ‘child safety issue.’”

I would certainly appreciate it if the Minister expanded on that in his response.

The Department for Education has acknowledged that children are more at risk from asbestos exposure than adults are. That is a significant step forward; it acknowledges that asbestos in schools is an issue. It includes a call for greater transparency from schools and employers, and makes it clear that asbestos training is compulsory for teachers and supporting staff. All those who are responsible for managing asbestos will receive training. That is well overdue, given the complete lack of awareness in many schools, as outlined in the report. There is also a welcome commitment to develop air sampling.

That is all a step forward but it by no means goes far enough. More than 291 schoolteachers have died of mesothelioma since 1980. They were dying at a rate of three per year in 1980, but the number of deaths has increased each year and they are now dying at a rate of 19 a year. The report acknowledges that caretakers, cleaners, maintenance staff and children are known to be at a greater risk. However, statistics do not show how many pupils have been killed by past exposure, as people often die more than 40 years after exposure, by which time they may have worked in a wide range of jobs. Let us not forget, however, that for every teacher working in a school there are 20 to 30 children and they are more at risk.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this Adjournment debate on a very serious issue. It is very important that we recognise that it is not only staff and support workers—the teachers and so on—but children who could contract asbestos-related diseases in school. Should we not be doing everything we can to take the right measures to reduce the incidence in children, rather than just looking across the board at teachers and staff?

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about that, and again I have to congratulate the National Union of Teachers on its assistance in dealing with this issue. The genuine concern is that we do not scare parents into believing that their children cannot go to school for fear of catching mesothelioma or other asbestos-related diseases, and we have tried to follow that approach through the report the TUC has drawn up. However, we say clearly in the report that action has to be taken. We also recognised that we cannot deal with this overnight and that the process has to be gradual, with gradual investment. That should start with some of the older schools being stripped of asbestos, and we could take things on gradually from there.

The review is somewhat complacent in places. It states that the Health and Safety Executive’s view is that schools overall are low-risk health and safety environments, similar to offices and retail premises. But there is a fundamental difference between offices, retail premises and schools, which is that schools contain children. The fabric of school buildings suffers considerably more disturbance and damage than most offices and retail premises. In addition, children are in the building for long periods of time and they are more vulnerable than adults to exposure to asbestos. However, most parents would not think that 4,000 to 6,000 people dying over a 20-year period as a result of attending school was low risk.

I am also surprised that the Government are unaware of the extent, type and condition of asbestos in schools. They have just completed a two-year survey on the condition of school buildings, which deliberately excluded asbestos. The review simply states:

“Based upon the age of the school estate, we can estimate that a majority of schools in England contain some asbestos, although the exact amount is unknown.”

That is an astonishing statement after a multi-million pound audit. If when the Government first came to office they had simply asked the local authorities, they would have found that the something like 87% of schools contained asbestos.

Although this debate is principally about schools in England, this is a UK-wide problem.

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill

Debate between Jim Sheridan and Ian Lavery

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Indeed, there is a school of thought that says, “If you work in an office, there are no health and safety hazards,” but that is not true. Indeed, the reality is quite different.

We also have to consider the excessive burden put on the NHS as a result of accidents in the workplace. However, we are only talking about the accidents that are reported. We need to understand that more accidents happen in the workplace that go unreported, because the individuals do not want to report them in case they get the sack. We are therefore not getting the true figure for people injured in the workplace.

[Ian Lavery]

With regard to mesothelioma and asbestos-related diseases, at any one time we have roughly 9 million children in school, which is a huge concern. There are also about 800,000 to 900,000 teachers in schools where there is asbestos. Should we not be looking immediately for the full withdrawal of asbestos from schools? It has been done in other countries, by the way, Northern Ireland being one. Should we not be looking for a phased removal and, in the meantime, managing asbestos properly in schools to prevent people from dying? The problem is that such diseases have a latency period of between 30 and 40 years, so people do not report them. They do not develop diseases until 30 or 40 years later, and even then they are not sure where they have come from.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I did not want to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, who I know was making an important point, but I should just remind the House that this is not a general debate on health and safety; rather, we are talking about new clause 14.

Health and Safety (Construction Industry)

Debate between Jim Sheridan and Ian Lavery

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is right. It is obvious that the cuts will result in increased fatalities. I am sure that the Minister will respond to this, but it is important to remember that even though we are trying to reduce the deficit—if, indeed, it is reduced—such people will not get their lives back, and they will not get their limbs back. It is important that we try to keep focused on health and safety.

We warmly welcomed the publication in July 2009 of Rita Donaghy’s report on construction fatalities. The then Government commissioned that independent report following strong lobbying by a number of trade unions and other agencies. It was the most significant and far-reaching report into construction safety for well over a decade. The 96-page report was entitled “One Death is too Many: Inquiry into the Underlying Causes of Construction Fatal Accidents”. It made a number of major recommendations, two of which were the extension of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 to cover the construction industry, and the introduction of statutory directors’ duties. The extension of the 2004 Act was recommended in recognition of the fact that

“The further down the subcontracting chain one goes the less secure the worker and the less satisfied with the management of health and safety on site. Society should accept that there needs to be a standard below which no construction worker should have to work.”

We have long campaigned for the introduction of statutory directors’ duties. It is virtually impossible to hold individual directors to account if a worker is killed at work. The report states:

“As with most advances in society, e.g. seat belts in cars, drink driving, there comes a time when good practice has to become a legal requirement.”

Rita Donaghy explicitly said:

“I recommend that there should be positive duties on directors to ensure good health and safety management through a framework of planning, delivering, monitoring and reviewing.”

The introduction of directors’ duties would mean that if a worker is killed and it is discovered that a company disregarded health and safety legislation, there is the possibility of an individual director receiving a custodial sentence.

The construction skills certification scheme was set up in 1995 by the construction industry to maintain a record of construction site workers who achieve, or can demonstrate that they have already attained, an agreed level of competence. The CSCS card issued to successful applicants offers a vital means by which cardholders can record and provide proof of their skills and occupational competence. Cardholders are also required to take a health and safety test relevant to their occupation. The aim of the scheme is to help the construction industry reduce accidents and improve competency and safety for individual site workers.

There are currently more than 1.6 million cardholders, and the CSCS works with 10 affiliated organisations to cover more than 350 construction-related occupations. The scheme is now widely used on the majority of construction sites, and all major contractors and homebuilders—

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Does he not agree that there is a need to enshrine the CSCS in legislation? Such a move would surely have a huge impact on the safety and health of people working in the construction and building industries. If legislation were passed and the scheme were rolled out—it has been rolled out for 1.6 million people at this point in time—throughout the industry, does he not think that that would have a huge impact on health and safety?

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As I understand it, there will not be any major financial impact if this card is introduced. Perhaps the Minister can give us an insight into his thinking on the CSCS when he makes his reply.

All the major contractors and homebuilders insist on those cards, as the cards demonstrate their commitment to safe and efficient working for construction workers and clients. CSCS cards provide additional security and peace of mind, as a fully carded work force is safer and better trained. Government should lead by example and require the use of CSCS on all public sector sites. Indeed, they already require the use of these cards or their equivalent on public sector sites as set out in the Office of Government Commerce common minimum standards for the procurement of built environments in the public sector.

The CMS recommendations state:

“Clients are to include a contract clause requiring that all members of their supply teams who are workers on or regular visitors to a construction site are registered on the Construction Skills Certification Scheme (CSCS) or are able to prove competency in some other appropriate way.”

The CSCS welcomed these recommendations, which were accepted by the previous Administration in their response to the report. The CSCS would welcome clarification from the Government on which of the Donaghy recommendations they intend to take forward.

In a parliamentary written answer, published in December 2010, the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), said that the Government will

“therefore progress those of the Donaghy recommendations accepted by the previous Administration which we consider are supported by the available evidence.”—[Official Report, 1 December 2010; Vol. 519, c. 867W.]

In his reply, will the Minister commit to raise awareness of the need to specify CSCS in all public sector contracts? Will he say what progress has been made on the review of the OGC common minimum standards and whether the requirement to specify the use of CSCS will be retained and promoted? Which recommendations in the Donaghy report do the Government intend to take forward, and what action do they intend to take to monitor the eligibility of migrant workers to work, and their qualifications and training?

Let me touch now on the issue of blacklisting in the construction industry, which also has a major health and safety perspective. Safety representatives have been targeted by their employers, and many have had to leave the industry as they were unable to find work. Despite being the most dangerous industry in Britain, construction has the lowest number of independent safety representatives, and all the major contractors have been involved in blacklisting.

In recent years, there has been a huge increase in employment agencies and gangmasters operating in the construction industry. That has further casualised and fragmented the construction industry, which has implications for safety in a number of ways. Often there is little effective screening of workers, and inexperienced workers are placed on construction sites without the appropriate training. The workers are highly vulnerable, so they are unlikely to complain about dangerous practices. Agencies are increasingly forcing workers to pay for their own personal protective equipment, which is illegal.

Agencies often flout the working time limit of 48 hours a week. With workers undertaking excessive hours, accidents are more likely to occur.

[Ian Lavery]

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a huge problem in the construction industry with regard to safety wear? In a meeting last week with the Health and Safety Executive, I heard about the huge problems with fake safety wear—helmets, boots and protective clothing. If that continues, we will see more problems within the industry. Does he agree that the Government should do everything in their power to uncover the source of this crooked gear and get rid of it to ensure that people in the industry are safe?

Flood Risk Management

Debate between Jim Sheridan and Ian Lavery

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Ian Lavery]

Of course I pay tribute to those people. I am not sure whether flood defences and removing water from our towns, villages and city centres should be left to the whim of some big society, as I am not too sure what that actually means, but I certainly pay tribute to anybody who volunteers to secure their community against flooding problems. I am not sure whether people in my area would have access to horses. Maybe the hon. Lady can tell me after this debate exactly how it happened. It is interesting.

Now that the Minister is in office, does he still agree with recommendation 39 on a statutory duty involving the emergency services? If so, as it is in the coalition agreement, might that take place in the not-too-distant future?

The decision today not to make funding for the Morpeth flood alleviation scheme readily available in the next 12 months is disappointing to me, the people concerned who are heavily involved in the community, the local council and many others. As the Member of Parliament for Wansbeck, I will be working tirelessly with those organisations and interested parties to ensure that the scheme is progressed in its entirety. It is important not to consider flood alleviation schemes on a piecemeal basis, because that is not effective economically or in terms of flood prevention. I ask the Minister for the third time this week—I hope that he will bear with me; I have had two assurances from him already, and I am sure he does not mind giving me a third one—to assure me that everything will be done to ensure that the Morpeth flood alleviation scheme will be completed in the near future without delay, as quickly as possible and in its entirety.

[Jim Sheridan (in the Chair)]

It is my intention to call the Front-Bench spokesmen no later than 3.40. There are two Members wishing to speak, so they should be brief.

Cyprus

Debate between Jim Sheridan and Ian Lavery

Tuesday 16th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

Although I am extremely grateful to have secured this debate, it is unfortunate that, 36 years on, the Cyprus problem remains unresolved. There have been many staging posts along the way, where hopes have been raised and dashed. The tolerance and discipline of the Cypriot people must be recognised and not seen in any way as a weakness, because they have a determination to win back their island.

Despite UN Security Council resolutions calling on Turkey to withdraw its forces from Northern Cyprus, Turkey has stubbornly refused to do so. In fact, Turkey has declared on more than one occasion that if it has to make a choice between Cyprus and its accession to the EU, it will choose Cyprus.

Indeed, these very days remind us of Turkey’s continuing intransigence over the years. Rather than working to implement the high-level agreements of Makarios-Denktash in 1977 and Kyprianou-Denktash in 1979, on 15 November 1983 Turkey instigated and supported separatist acts by the Turkish Cypriot leadership with an illegal unilateral declaration of independence of the northern part of Cyprus. That action prompted UN Security Council resolutions 541 of 1983 and 550 of 1984, which condemned the UDI, declared it illegal and called for its immediate withdrawal. As a result, no country in the world has recognised the illegal regime, except Turkey, which funds it and exercises virtual control over it.

The newly elected leader of the Turkish Cypriot community, Mr Dervis Eroglu, continues to advocate the same separatist policies on Cyprus. On the anniversary of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus earlier this year, he said:

“After 20 July 1974 there has been a new geography and two separate states, two separate peoples, two separate republics and two separate sides”.

It is against that backdrop of intransigence that President Christofias of Cyprus continues to negotiate in good faith for a lasting solution to the Cyprus issue.

To counter the intransigence of the Turkish Cypriots on the property issue, the President of Cyprus recently made several proposals: to conduct an independent census of population and property ownership in Cyprus; to link the issue of property with that of settlers, as they are interdependent; that the ghost town of Varosha should be returned to its inhabitants; and that the port of Famagusta should be opened, under the supervision of the EU, for the purposes of trade between the Turkish Cypriots and the EU.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there are tremendous fears about whether the Turkish Cypriots will take those issues at all seriously in the negotiations and discussions that are to be held on 18 November?

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right and we must do all we can: I hope that this debate will reinforce this Government’s insistence that Turkey take those negotiations or discussions seriously. I thank him for that important intervention.

The meeting on 18 November at the UN between the UN Secretary General, President Christofias and the leader of the Turkish Cypriot community will provide a good opportunity for the Turkish side to show its respect for UN resolutions and the judgments of the European Court of Human Rights, and to respond positively to the various proposals put forward by the President of Cyprus. We must remain optimistic and sincerely hope that the meeting will prove to be successful, and that Turkey will take seriously not only the concerns of the Cypriot people, but those of the international community.

Sadly, to date the Turkish verbal support for the ongoing negotiations has not been met by their deeds—not a single step has been taken to that effect. Within the context of negotiations, Turkey has rejected all the proposals put forward by the President of the Republic of Cyprus. Turkey still maintains illegally a 40,000-strong occupation army in Cyprus, it has not implemented the Ankara protocol vis-à-vis the Republic of Cyprus, and it has repeatedly used the so-called “isolation” of the Turkish Cypriots as a pretext for the political upgrading of the non-recognised entity—the Turkish Northern Republic of Cyprus, or TNRC—in Cyprus.

Mr Brady, I want to take this opportunity to welcome the high commissioner from Cyprus, who has joined us today for this very important debate.

Having visited Cyprus, I saw at first hand, as others have done, that Turkish Cypriots are far from isolated. More than 60,000 Turkish Cypriots have passports and identity cards of the Republic of Cyprus and therefore of the European Union, allowing them to travel freely across Europe and to benefit from Cypriot health care and social security. In addition, more than 10,000 Turkish Cypriots cross the green line every day to work in the Republic of Cyprus. Moreover, Turkish Cypriots are able to trade their goods freely in the Republic of Cyprus and export them overseas, through the recognised ports and airports of the Republic of Cyprus. However, they are prevented from doing so by the Turkish Cypriot authorities.

It is equally unfortunate that Turkey’s intransigence has been rewarded with a seat on the UN Security Council as a non-permanent member and that both Europe and the US are prepared to turn a blind eye to Turkey’s activities.

May I also say, in a non-partisan way, that the recent visit by our own Prime Minister to Turkey did nothing to help the Cyprus problem? While he was publicly supportive of Turkey, unfortunately he did not make public mention of the Cyprus problem. However, I am led to believe that he made a private call to President Christofias. Perhaps the Minister can confirm that that was indeed the case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. There is a school of thought—certainly among the Cypriot people—that regards the press and media as biased toward Turkey. I sincerely hope that the discussions next week will take a balanced approach.

Many colleagues here today have visited Cyprus, seen it for themselves and heard stories about the young men and women who went missing during the invasion, never to be seen again. Their loved ones’ heart-breaking stories cannot fail to leave a lasting emotional imprint on all of us. Those families have the fundamental human right to find out what happened to their loved ones, and we as a Government should be asking Turkey to facilitate that request. To this day, the whereabouts of more than 1,400 individuals are still unknown. It is a human tragedy that should not be allowed to continue.

[Ian Lavery]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the 1,400 young men and women who went missing during and after the invasion should be a main item on the agenda at this week’s meeting? It is now 2010, and there are 1,400 families with missing people. Should that not be a main theme on the agenda at the meeting on Thursday 18 November?

[Jim Sheridan]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One cannot overestimate the distress caused to the loved ones of the missing Cypriot people. All that they ask of the Turkish people and the Turkish Government is to understand the severity of their feelings. It should be a crucial part of the discussions to bring some conclusion to that problem.

The destruction of Cyprus’s cultural heritage is equally unacceptable. In 1965, Turkey ratified the Hague convention of 1954 on the protection of cultural heritage in the event of armed conflict. Nevertheless, since Turkey’s intervention and subsequent occupation of Cyprus in 1974, it has been responsible for the devastation, vandalism and looting of the island’s cultural heritage on a scale unworthy of any civilised nation, let alone a prospective EU member. According to the Church of Cyprus, more than 500 churches and monasteries in the northern part of Cyprus have been destroyed, and some 15,000 small relics have been looted. Some colleagues and I recently visited the annual Morphou rally and saw for ourselves the graveyards and cemeteries that have been devastated. I am more than happy to pass the photographs to the Minister if he should require to see them.

Colleagues will also be aware of the indefensible isolation of Famagusta, or Varosha as it is known in Cyprus. The city has been left to rot while the rest of the world has moved on. Many Cypriots can only look on with horror and dismay while their properties are occupied by strangers. Turkey’s invasion of 1974 left 200,000 refugees homeless, many of whom fled their homes with few or no belongings. There is no doubt that if Turkey wished and had the political will to find a satisfactory conclusion to the problem, we could find a way to restore the properties to their rightful owners.

Turkey has effectively created a so-called state in northern Cyprus, to the detriment not only of the Greek Cypriots whose property was confiscated by the self-styled Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus but of the Turkish Cypriots who have suffered under Turkish rule by becoming a minority in the northern part of Cyprus. According to the Turkish Cypriot press, Turkey has transferred 180,000 settlers into northern Cyprus, with the consequence that Turkey has imposed its ideology there. More mosques than schools have been built in northern Cyprus—181 mosques to 162 schools—and the crime rate has soared due to uncontrolled immigration from Turkey. Education and health services are becoming overburdened. The Turkish Cypriot media also report that in order to enshrine the ideological shift further, Turkey is now demanding that settlers account for more than 50% of new appointments in the civil service, police, education and health services.

That is the backdrop to the relentless efforts by Turkey and those who blindly champion its membership of the European Union to push for outcomes that legitimise all the grave consequences of Turkey’s illegal invasion and 36-year military occupation of the northern part of the island.