Trade Union Funding

Jim Sheridan Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Owen, for calling me to speak.

It is normal practice to congratulate the hon. Member who secures a debate in Westminster Hall. On this occasion I shall resist that temptation, because there is no doubt whatsoever that this is a politically driven debate, with the dark hand of the TaxPayers Alliance behind it—an organisation about which little is known, including how it is funded, so we know where it is coming from. It is also rather interesting that the Conservative MPs in Westminster Hall today are all from the new intake of the party’s MPs, which gives us an idea of where the new Conservative party is going.

I must say that I have not had one single constituent complain to me about trade union funding—not one—in the 10 years that I have been in Parliament. In terms of employment rights, we already have the most business-friendly employment rights in the whole of Europe. That is undisputed, and if people do not believe me let me quote Richard Lambert, the director general of the CBI in 2009, who said in a foreword:

“In today’s difficult economic climate, it is more important than ever that all resources available to the workplace are well deployed. Union reps constitute a major resource: there are approximately 200,000 workers who act as lay union representatives. We believe that modern representatives have a lot to give their fellow employees and to the organisations that employ them.”

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, however he would analyse or describe the business-friendliness of the current Government, being business-friendly does not necessarily mean the opposite of being in favour of workers’ rights?

[Jim Sheridan]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right and I am glad that he made that intervention.

There are some members of the Conservative party who live in the real world, none more so than the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), who said:

“I want to pay tribute to union learning reps, who have made so much difference to so many lives, and to such effect. Trade unions can play an invaluable and immeasurable role in improving skills in the workplace.”

That suggests that there are some Conservatives—apart from those in Westminster Hall today—who live in the real world.

For my sins, I have been a member of the Transport and General Workers Union and I am still a proud member of the Unite union. I am also proud to be the chair of the Unite parliamentary group, which meets regularly and takes up issues with whatever Government are in power. Before anyone asks about my funding, there is absolute transparency about my funding, including my funding from the trade union movement; it is all recorded in the books and is there for everyone to see.

In the short time that is left for me to speak today, I will focus on one of the major issues that trade unions are involved with, which is health and safety in the workplace. For my sins, I am also chair of the all-party group on health and safety, which deals with occupational health. We have just released a report that highlights the dangers from asbestos to children, teachers and other people who work in schools. There is not one single business in this country that would raise the issue of people dying of asbestos-related diseases, especially children who go to school and who are in danger of being contaminated by asbestos and suffering from such diseases. As a former shipyard worker, I have seen people die of mesothelioma, which is the most horrible death that anyone could ever see, yet employers are still churning out asbestos to the third world because it has been banned in this country. That is what trade unions are about; that is what their job is about. It is to ensure that people go to work safely and come home safely. It is unfortunate that the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) is no longer in the Chamber, because he is a former member of the armed forces and it is a little known fact that more people are killed in the workplace in the UK than British service personnel are killed in armed conflict.

I am conscious of the time, Mr Owen, and all I want to say in conclusion is that I have worked for many good companies, none more so than Thales, which is a very successful and progressive business. It sees every benefit in having trade unions in the workplace. In fact, it goes out of its way to ensure that people have the opportunity to join a trade union. The rhetoric from Conservative MPs today is different from what is happening in the real world and it is really disappointing to see that the Conservative party, which has some decent people in it, has been dragged down by the young Turks.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Owen.

I, too, start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on securing this important debate. The level of taxpayer funding of trade unions has clearly become a major political issue. As sunlight is the best disinfectant, it is important that such issues are debated honestly and openly in Parliament.

I am amazed at the churlish comments made by some Opposition Members in not congratulating my hon. Friend on securing the debate. The trade unions, over this Parliament, under a Conservative-led Government, will still receive more than £500 million of taxpayers’ money. I cannot think of any other issue that MPs feel should not be debated at all. We can argue about reforms to the national health service and the police, but when it comes to trade union funding, Opposition Members feel that it is somehow beyond the pale to even debate or discuss it. I can only think that they worry that when the public realise how much of their taxes go on funding the trade unions and not on front-line services, there will be a huge public outcry. They fear that the momentum for reform would be unstoppable.

[Jim Sheridan]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Burley]

No, I will not.

We, on the Government side of the House, feel that the public have a right to know where their taxes are going. That is why my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton has done such an important job this morning in securing the debate on behalf of hard-pressed British taxpayers.

As my hon. Friend said, there is now widespread public and parliamentary concern about paid time off for trade union activities and duties, an issue that has been acknowledged by the Minister for the Cabinet Office and the Minister for Local Government. They are both looking at reforming that practice, known as public sector facility time.

I understand that the Cabinet Office is about to launch a consultation into the extent—indeed abuse, as pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel)—of so-called facility time. I would be grateful to the Minister if he could update us on when the consultation will take place, what its parameters will be, when it will be likely to conclude, and what the recommendations for reform might be.

The issue this morning is one of basic principle: is it appropriate for the taxpayer to subsidise trade unions at all, and if so, to what extent? In the brief time I have this morning, I want to deal with the issue of principle, because as far as I can tell, it has never been properly explained or defended in public.

I listened carefully to the response of the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) to the ten-minute rule Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman) on the issue. It was notable that in his response, at no point did the respected former Minister—I am sorry to see that he is no longer in the Chamber—defend or explain the principle of a public subsidy to trade unions. He opened his response by saying:

“This Bill attacks the most basic and most benign feature of trade union work—the day-to-day support for staff at work by their colleagues who are prepared to volunteer as trade union representatives.”—[Official Report, 11 January 2012; Vol. 538, c. 201.]

That rather missed the point, because we have no problem with colleagues who are prepared to volunteer as trade union representatives, just with colleagues who think they should be paid by the taxpayer to be trade union representatives. In fact, if I was a volunteer trade union rep, doing a worthy job for a few hours a week because I believed in helping colleagues, I would be rather annoyed to think that whereas I worked for free, other colleagues felt that they needed to be paid to do it; in fact, some feel that they need to be paid full-time to do it. Where is the fairness in that? Why do some trade union reps need to be paid while others do not?

--- Later in debate ---

[Alec Shelbrooke]

Yes, probably from ours as well; we would not be happy with it. That is an important point. There is some perception that we are union-bashing, but that is not true. I remember listening to the speech made by the leader of the Labour party at conference, just after he had been elected. He spoke about the dinner ladies who were told that they had to buy their uniforms and aprons. The trade unions got involved and made sure that they did not have to do that. That is important work by trade unions.

Everyone here likes to mouth off. We are the people who stand up and front up. We will stand up, debate and have an argument, but 95% of the people out there would sweat with fear at having to stand up right now to make arguments. That is why we need healthy, working trade unions.

However, there are some problems, and there is an easy way to overcome some of the perceptions about the funding between trade unions and the Labour party. It is simple: instead of having an opt-out of the political levy, let us have an opt-in. Someone would have to opt in each year, which then has to be audited. Where the pot of money from the opted-in political levy is spent can be decided by the trade union.

[Jim Sheridan]

By shareholders as well?

[Alec Shelbrooke]

Absolutely. The hon. Gentleman asks whether shareholders would be able to do it. Why not? We are trying to empower shareholders.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alec Shelbrooke]

There are indeed many stories, but I want to return to the specific—

[Jim Sheridan]

On a point of order, Mr Owen. That statement is completely untrue. Trade unions do not dictate Labour party policies. The hon. Gentleman should withdraw that remark right now—