Public Bodies: Governance and Accountability

Debate between Jim Shannon and Valerie Vaz

Wednesday 12th November 2025 Westminster Hall

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall and Bloxwich) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the governance and accountability of public bodies.

It is a pleasure to serve under you for this debate, Sir John.

I start by thanking the Minister in advance for attempting to respond to what sounds like a very esoteric topic. This debate is not about the BBC; it is about specific things happening in my constituency. In my view, this debate goes to the very heart of the democratic process. It is about strengthening our institutions and making sure they are accountable and working for our constituents.

How do we, as Members of Parliament, effect change for our constituents and raise their legitimate concerns when faced with public bodies that do not, prima facie—on the face of it—have any accountability to the electorate? I will raise the issues of a new school, Walsall Leather Museum and access to a railway station, as well as a simple issue of noise mitigation. All these issues relate to decisions made against the wishes of my constituents.

First, is it a new school or a white elephant? Under the previous Government, money was allocated for a new free school in my area. It was originally meant to serve the Blakenall area, but it was moved to Reedswood Park. A priority education investment area, an arm’s length body, was set up in 2022. It is not clear who chose the board or to whom the board was accountable. Nevertheless, three delivery partners were chosen by this unaccountable board.

An arm’s length body called LocatED then undertook a site analysis—I found out later that it was called a “pre-feasibility feasibility study”, and I think there is a special vocabulary for arm’s length bodies—on an old golf course in Reedswood Park. Friends of Reedswood Park is against this proposal. The park is a green lung for my constituents, because we are surrounded by motorways. However, the “best” bit about this project is that when the council was informed that the site had accessibility issues, a local councillor said, “But we can build a bridge.”

Through this arm’s length body, Department for Education officials appear to be driving this project. However, LocatED’s own analysis said that this site has its difficulties. The site options appraisal said that nine other sites were superior. However, what is even worse is that a member of the trust tasked with delivering the school was a member of the now-disbanded board. I am sure you will agree, Sir John, that this smacks of the covid VIP lane.

I do not know how or why this trust was asked to deliver the project, because many local trusts and schools have suggested that they are in a position to expand their places if needed. I have consistently asked in letters whether there is a case for a new school, and based on the numbers, there does not appear to be. The chief executive of Walsall council said on 11 November 2024, a year ago, that no decision has been made to build on the site and that the Department for Education will determine if the project will proceed. The cost of this school has been put at £50 million, even though there will be a surplus of school places by the time it is built. It will also be built in the wrong place.

The Secretary of State for Education said in a written ministerial statement on 24 October 2024 that

“since the cancellation of the Building Schools for the Future programme, some of this funding could have been put to better use”.—[Official Report, 24 October 2024; Vol. 755, c. 8WS.]

That was the Secretary of State setting out her policy, so why is it not being applied in Walsall? Joseph Leckie academy has not received its full allocation of funding under Building Schools for the Future since 2010. Blue Coat academy needs a new heating system and to fix its roof. All Saints Church of England primary school has mould. All these schools have to bid for funding.

If other schools in the area say there is no need for a secondary school, and if the figures do not show a need for one—certainly not in the proposed area, which is wholly unsuitable—why is an arm’s length body not listening to headteachers, governors or me, as the area’s elected representative? Did the Windsor academy trust have an inside advantage? Is it right that officials and arm’s length bodies are driving this project against Government policy and then asking the Secretary of State to rubber-stamp it? We need reasons, which these organisations must give us when an eye-watering £50 million is being spent on one school while other schools are crying out for funding.

Something that is definitely not a white elephant is Walsall Leather Museum. It is well used and well known, nationally and internationally. This is about Walsall’s heritage. It is the only museum left, and it is housed in a red-brick former leather goods factory that was built in 1895. The council previously tried to close it, but it was stopped because of the outcry from constituents. In this case, an unelected institution, Walsall college, did a deal with the council that is far from transparent. The council commissioned a report in February 2024, completed on 19 May 2024, to ask where the future museum would best be located. The report cost £47,000, and it has not been published. We can probably guess that it says the museum should stay where it is.

On 8 October 2024, Walsall college’s finance and regeneration committee mentioned ongoing negotiations on the Leather Museum with Walsall council. A task and finish group was established between Walsall college and Walsall council to handle communications, with the aim of the council making a decision by December 2025 and work starting in June 2026. None of that was in the public domain; it took residents Linda and Andy Boyes putting in freedom of information requests to the council and the college just to find out when the acquisition was discussed, as well as other information.

My research on the accountability of institutions such as Walsall college has shown that if there is a “contentious transaction”, which clearly this is, the Secretary of State can step in. No one is clear on the full ownership of the site of the museum. The Land Registry is not clear, and the college is unable to say. Walsall college has a significant estate—11 acres, mostly undeveloped, on its Wisemore campus. It can house purpose-built special educational needs and disabilities provision, for which the college says it wants to use the museum, rather than using public money to convert the museum.

The museum is inspirational. One of its successes is Lauren Broxton, who is leading the campaign to save the museum, which inspired her when she visited as a child. She works with leather as a fashion designer. One of her exhibits is in the museum, and she is teaching the next generation. De Montfort University and Birmingham City University also use the Leather Museum as a learning tool, with students showing their wares there. It is quite nice to see.

When I wrote to the Minister in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport—who should be accountable, as I am sure you would agree, Sir John—I was told to write to the Arts Council, which then told me to write to Walsall council. The museum has been accredited by the Arts Council. This is about the culture and heritage of Walsall. No one appears to be accountable or able to intervene and listen to what my constituents have to say. I have had to write to the National Trust, Historic England and again to the Arts Council to save this heritage museum. A previous petition attracted 6,400 signatures, and a new petition has 1,500 after only 10 days

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the right hon. Lady for securing the debate. Formidable lady that she is, I am surprised that she has not been able to crack the whip and get the desired result. The issue for us all—for you, Sir John, and everyone in this room—is that elected representatives are elected by the people to serve the people and be accountable for mistakes that happen. The right hon. Lady’s clear frustration is a frustration that I sometimes have back home. What I have done—the issue that she refers to is much larger—is bring all the interested bodies together, perhaps to bump heads or to get them to sit around the table and come up with something. Has she been able to bring together all those people, even those who do not want to speak to her? They should speak to her and, at the end of the day, they will.

[Valerie Vaz]

The hon. Gentleman pre-empts something I will come to at the end, as one of my asks is to do just that.

Visits to the museum are on an upward curve, with 14,000 over the past year. Now, the collection will be closed and put in storage until a new position is found, and nobody knows where. I am afraid that I have to use this phrase: it is the inclusion or collusion of Walsall college, an unaccountable body, that has resulted in the council deciding to close the museum, which will mean spending more money to refurbish it as a different entity and not as a purpose-built museum. This goes to the very heart of our community. I do not know whether you know, Sir John, but the leather industry and saddlers are the image of Walsall. I ask the Minister whether the Arts Council granting accredited museum status to the Walsall Leather Museum is not worth anything. If it is working as an arm’s length body, it should be accountable, and so should Walsall college.

Connected and Automated Vehicles

Debate between Jim Shannon and Valerie Vaz

Tuesday 28th October 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is as always a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. It is nice to see you again and catch up. I thank the hon. Member for West Bromwich (Sarah Coombes) for leading today’s debate and I congratulate her for doing well. I am not a petrolhead but I love a gear stick—I love going through the gears, one to six. I love the smell of the car and the roar of a diesel engine.

The hon. Member for West Bromwich is right to bring this matter to the House for consideration, but I am afraid I will never get an electric car. That is just me. A driverless car? I like to be in charge of the steering wheel. I am not sure I could sit in a car like the one Arnold Schwarzenegger sits in in that film, where a wee model thing, with a head that spins round, tells him where he is going. I do not think I could ever do that, but the hon. Lady is right to bring this to us for consideration.

There is a need for technology and a need to move forward. My son, who has an electric car and is not afraid of the future—unlike his dad, perhaps—is willing to consider the technology that there will be. Someday there will be driverless cars; I am sure of that. One thing that I would love to see in the future—this is not about cars—is something like the device in “Star Trek” where they say, “Beam me up, Scotty.” The day they do that will be the day I would be convinced that is the right way to go, because I could be in my office at 9 o’clock on a Tuesday morning, and then be over here at five past 9—

[Valerie Vaz (in the Chair)]

Be careful what you wish for!

[Jim Shannon]

Now, will that ever happen? Who knows? But we are talking about driverless cars.

I want to refer to Northern Ireland, of course. First, the Automated Vehicles Act 2024 does not apply to Northern Ireland and, furthermore, there is as of yet no comprehensive legislative framework in Northern Ireland for automated vehicles. I believe it will come, because technology is moving on, the future is moving on, and people will want to be part of that.

That situation means that there is some confusion about the use of a self-driving vehicle authorised under the GB regime in Northern Ireland; the hon. Member for West Bromwich is right about that. There would also be implications for those coming across the border from the Republic of Ireland, as the vehicle would be operating without clear legal responsibility. It is always a joy to see the Minister in his place, and we look forward to some clarification on what it would mean if a self-driving vehicle from the mainland or the Republic of Ireland came to Northern Ireland, where we do not have any legislation in place. If it works, it has to work everywhere, so my question to the Minister would be about how that might happen.

Some pilot schemes are emerging back home. For example, there was an eight-seater Harlander shuttle bus operating in the Titanic quarter in Belfast. There was always a safety operator, of course, but it did give a little taste of the future of driverless vehicles in Northern Ireland. Sometimes it is a step into the unknown that people are a wee bit concerned about. A recent survey carried out by CompareNI highlighted that out of 800 motorists, some 75% would not feel safe travelling in a driverless vehicle—I am probably one of that 75%. I am in the majority, by the way; at least in Northern Ireland. The lack of public trust must be looked at. If this is the future, more must be done to instil public trust as that could be a barrier to progression.

RAF Photographic Reconnaissance Unit

Debate between Jim Shannon and Valerie Vaz

Thursday 17th July 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Vaz. I thank the hon. Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) for affording us all the opportunity to recognise a wonderful part of this nation’s history. It is a real pleasure to see the Minister in his place. He is held in high esteem by all hon. Members—not to put any pressure on the answers that he will give shortly. I say that in jest.

It is a great pleasure to speak about the extraordinary role of the RAF Photographic Reconnaissance Unit during the second world war—a unit whose daring missions and critical intelligence gathering were pivotal to the allied victory. The PRU’s pilots, who flew unarmed planes into enemy skies, showed a bravery that reminds us of the men of the merchant navy, who manned unarmed ships through dangerous waters.

In 1940, the RAF PRU rose from Sidney Cotton’s civilian Heston Flight, officially becoming the No. 1 Photographic Reconnaissance Unit in November 1940. It was tasked with capturing high-resolution aerial photos of enemy territory. We have to consider what that means—it means it operated with little or no protection. The PRU became our eyes in the sky.

The pilots would fly modified, unarmed aircraft, such as Spitfires and Mosquitoes, at incredible speeds and altitudes of 44,000 feet, evading enemy detection to gather intelligence. The images meticulously analysed by the RAF Medmenham’s allied central interpretation unit revealed German secrets from rocket programmes to fortified defences. In 1943, the PRU’s reconnaissance over Peenemünde revealed Germany’s V1 and V2 rocket development, prompting Operation Hydra, a bombing raid that delayed the use of those weapons by months, potentially saving countless lives.

For D-day in 1944, the PRU’s 85,000 daily images mapped the Atlantic wall, enabling precision planning for the Normandy invasion. It is impossible to overstate the courage demanded for these missions. Just like the merchant navy, whose crews worked mostly on unarmed ships, braving U-boat-infested waters to deliver vital supplies, the PRU pilots flew unarmed planes in skies heavy with Luftwaffe fighters.

Tragically, the PRU suffered the highest casualty rate of any RAF unit. Pilots such as Wing Commander Adrian Warburton, a daring pilot who on 11 November 1940 flew a recon mission over a huge flight of Italian battleships in Taranto harbour, not far from Malta—flying so low he could almost reach out and touch the vessels, and was very aware of their painted names. He was shot down in April 1944. His remains were not discovered until 2002 in a field in Bavaria, around 30 miles west of Munich, still strapped in his plane’s cockpit.

The PRU’s strength was supported by pilots and bases around the Commonwealth and beyond. I am very proud to say that Northern Ireland had a role to play in that, with a vital RAF hub supporting the PRU at airfields in Aldergrove and Limavady, which were key locations for Coastal Command operations until 1942.

The Commonwealth’s role in the PRU was significant thanks to the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand airmen, and of course the invaluable contributions of the Polish airmen whose feats are the stuff of legend. No. 318 Polish Fighter-Reconnaissance Squadron supported reconnaissance efforts as well, and their flights over Peenemünde were critical. Polish intelligence from the Home Army provided ground-level reports that complemented PRU imagery, especially after rocket testing shifted to Blizna in Poland.

The PRU’s innovations saw techniques such as “dicing”, where pilots skimmed treetops under fire—my goodness, that makes your head spin. Night photography using the Edgerton D-2 flash system and infrared film by 1945 enabled the PRU to break enemy camouflage in darkness. Who thinks all these up? I know I could not, but those people did. Those developments, teamed with cameras like the F24 and F52, delivered precise intelligence, paving the way for today’s modern reconnaissance. They set the examples for the rest of us.

The PRU’s legacy remains firm and indisputable in the National Collection of Aerial Photography, while those brave, precious lives lost are commemorated by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission with memorials around the UK, such as at Runnymede, and also in France, Malta, Sicily, Tunisia and Singapore. That demonstrates how far their reach extended.

In conclusion—I am conscious of your time limit, Ms Vaz, which is why I am speaking at 100 mph—to those brave pilots, our eyes in the sky, especially those who lost their lives flying high-risk spying missions to secure our liberation, we owe our profound, lasting admiration, respect and gratitude. Their legacy compels us to be the keepers and guardians of their history.

[Valerie Vaz (in the Chair)]

As the hon. Members who have spoken so far have been so good with their time, other Members have a bit more time.

Financial Fraud and Economic Crime

Debate between Jim Shannon and Valerie Vaz

Wednesday 11th September 2024 Westminster Hall

[Valerie Vaz (in the Chair)]

Order. Apparently, there is an acoustic problem for everybody sitting in the front row. Could the hon. Gentleman move to the back as the mics are not working?

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Always best to be a Back Bencher, Ms Vaz!