Enterprise Bill [Lords]

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I am aware of the Committee’s recommendation. Some of the work that I have just announced that will be done by GIB will help to meet some of those concerns. I will not pretend that all the Environmental Audit Committee’s recommendations will be met, but I hope that the hon. Gentleman is reassured that we have considered them carefully and that as we proceed with the Bill we will take many of those issues into account.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[Michelle Thomson (Edinburgh West) (Ind)]

rose—

[Sajid Javid]

I need to plough on, because a number of hon. Members wish to speak.

Finally, the Bill will bring the public sector into line with private sector best practice on exit payments. Too many public sector fat cats are handed six figure pay-offs when they leave a job, which are often little more than a reward for failure. That is an insult to the hard-working taxpayers and business owners who finance them. The Enterprise Bill will end that practice.

[Jim Shannon]

I apologise that I was not in the Chamber when the Secretary of State referred to Sunday trading and the hours that workers would have to work. I understand that, according to a Populus poll, 66% of the British public said that they were against any changes to Sunday trading and 91% of people who work in shops do not want any change either. Will the Government assure us today that there will not be any changes in the Bill to Sunday opening times ?

[Sajid Javid]

I can clarify that the Government will not mandate any part of the UK to extend Sunday trading hours. We will devolve the power to local authorities so that they can make that decision on behalf of their local community.

When Napoleon called Britain a nation of shopkeepers, he—[Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. I would like first to express my concern over the redundancy payments. Other Members have already done so, and I know that the Minister has taken note of their comments. I have been contacted by constituents who are civil servants, and they are greatly concerned that the commitment they were given on the capping of mobile exit payments has now, as they see it, been reneged on. Some of the employees that this will target earn less than £30,000 a year.

I welcome the Government’s commitment on apprentices. It is excellent to see that, but the Bill reminds me of the curate’s egg, in that it is good in parts. Unfortunately, not all its parts are good and some of its proposals are quite unpalatable. However, we are pleased with the Government’s commitment on apprentices. I also want to see more young ladies and girls getting involved in the science, technology, engineering and maths—STEM—industries, and particularly in engineering, which has some fantastic opportunities in Northern Ireland. We want to encourage that participation as well.

I commend the Minister for the strong stance that she took in the debate in Westminster Hall last week on late payments by big stores to small businesses and their suppliers. She will know that a lot of those payments are delayed, and that there have also been delays in the invoicing of receipts. The groceries ombudsman took the decision to penalise Tesco stores in particular, although it was unfortunate that they were unable to enforce a fine because of the timescale involved. However, the Minister clearly stated that she was pleased to see that decision, and we as MPs are also pleased by it. I commend her for her strong stance on that issue.

It will come as no surprise to hon. Members that I am about to raise the matter of the impact of the Government’s changes to the rules on Sunday shop opening. I want to talk about the effect that the changes could have on the staff who work in those shops. The Minister will know my stance on this issue. Pressure to make the changes will be placed on shops, mostly smaller ones, across the whole of the United Kingdom. I understand that this measure is England and Wales-oriented, but there will be an impact on the way in which the regional devolved Assemblies view the matter. There will be pressure from the big stores to ensure that the changes in Sunday opening also happen in those regions where this is a devolved matter.

The claim that the changes will help small businesses is simply not correct. Many people feel that extending the hours will simply mean an influx of shoppers to the big chain stores, with the small shops suffering as a result. Earlier in the debate, the Secretary of State mentioned the pluses for small businesses, but I am not convinced by his argument. Indeed, many Members here today and many people outside this Chamber are unconvinced. Let us look at the evidence. I remember asking a question about this when the hours were relaxed during the London 2012 Olympics, and I was told that the smaller shops had felt little difference. In fact, many of them lost money. Let us look at the facts. They had to pay staff to work extra hours but they did not generate enough extra business.

In an earlier intervention on the Minister, I mentioned that polling conducted by Populus in September 2015 had found that more than two thirds of the general public supported leaving the existing Sunday trading hours alone. In other words, don’t change them! There is no need to change them, and people do not want them to be changed. They want them to stay as they are. The same poll revealed that 91% of shop workers were against extending Sunday trading hours. Allowing large shops to open for longer hours will lead to a displacement of trade from the smaller stores.

[Victoria Borwick (Kensington) (Con)]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that staff in many garden centres across the country are already working longer hours because they go in to feed the animals? So for some shops, more flexibility around opening on Sundays would be beneficial. I have been asked to make this representation on behalf of garden centres.

[Jim Shannon]

I am sure the hon. Lady knows we may have a different opinion on this matter, but I understand her point and accept that. She has put her point clearly to the Minister and I appreciate the intervention.

It has been stated that convenience stores lost some £26 million in trade during the Olympics, when Sunday trading rules were abandoned for eight weeks, although many Members in the House asked questions at that time to ensure that things would not go the wrong way. Only large traders would benefit from this move and no matter how the Government put it, the change to allow local authorities to do their own thing will lead to unfair competition, angst among some of the workers and a mishmash of Sunday trading laws. The Government have indicated that this will be introduced on Report, but let me make a final quick point on devolution to councils. Let us imagine that Manchester’s council changes the Sunday opening hours but Liverpool’s does not, that Burnley’s does but Blackburn’s decides not to, that Bournemouth’s changes but Portsmouth’s says, “No, we are not going to do it” and that Darlington changes but Newcastle does not—how ludicrous is that? What a mishmash, dog’s dinner of Sunday opening hours there would be across the United Kingdom. There would be no consistency—it would just be everyone for themselves.

[Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that it is for businesses to decide whether they open on Sunday, so it is perfectly possible to have that mismatch already when business owners make that decision for themselves?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the intervention, but we disagree on the matter—he probably knew that before he got to his feet.

Let me just say this: don’t ignore 66% of the general public and 91% of the workers who say they do not want change. Whether you like or not, those are the facts and they have to be considered. On behalf of those with strong religious beliefs who want to keep Sunday special, those who have concerns about their family time being shattered and altered forever, and shop workers, whose opinions are being ignored, let me say gently to the Government that many Conservative Members are not happy with these changes either. It is not for me to say, because Ministers know their Members better than I do, but I am aware of a certain number who could be the difference between this legislation going through or not. I respectfully suggest to the Government that when we look at this on Report they should consider the hon. Members for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), who are not in their places, and many other Conservative Members who have concerns. I believe that if the Government pursue this legislative change on shop opening hours, there is every possibility of them being defeated. They should consider this legislation carefully before they go forward with it. Let us keep Sunday special. They should not ignore the general public and they should not ignore their workers.