Energy Prices Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

What we are doing is making it clear that it will depend on usage and that the figures are average figures. The £2,500, therefore, is for an average family and, obviously, not necessarily for all families. Larger families will have particular pressures, but I am coming on to the other support that remains which will help families. The price per unit of electricity and gas is part of the package, but it is of course combined, and we recognise the difficulties that families and businesses will face with higher prices.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for bringing forward the proposals he is outlining. I am very concerned for those I refer to as the working poor, and I know the Secretary of State is as well. With the cumulative money that people have to pay, the working poor, in my opinion, seem to be the ones who are losing out. Can he give us some reassurance that that will not be the case?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Yes, I think I can give the hon. Gentleman the assurance he is asking for. That is why the scheme is as broad as it is. The effect of the price rises we were in danger of seeing was so great that it would have affected people who were not on benefits. They would have found that they were in fuel poverty without this assistance. That is why it is so encompassing. The support is being provided at the point in the year when 60% of consumption takes place.

The energy price guarantee comes in addition to the £400 of support provided by the energy bills support scheme for Great Britain, announced earlier this year.

Energy Prices Bill

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

I rise to speak to new clause 4 and amendment 4, both in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney). These amendments seek to address the inequality of support offered to some 480,000 households across the UK that benefit from communal energy provision. This Government have repeatedly promised to provide equivalent support to those living in households on communal heat networks, yet this Bill plainly fails to realise that equivalence in legislation with other households that will be supported through the energy price guarantee.

Heat networks supply heat to buildings from a central source, avoiding the need for households and workplaces to have individual energy-intensive heating solutions, such as gas boilers. They are one of the most cost-effective ways of reducing carbon emissions from heating, and indeed they have been encouraged by the Government. Many who are on communal heat networks live in London, and there is a number of such blocks of flats in my constituency and the neighbouring constituency of Richmond Park. Residents in Wharf House in Teddington in my constituency are facing energy price rises of 560%, and it is not uncommon for those on communal heat networks to be facing price rises of over 500%. These people can be living in private housing, as is the case in my constituency, but particularly across London many affected by this issue live in social housing and in buildings that range from Victorian mansion flats through to very recent developments.

Many of my constituents and those of my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) who have been in touch are very worried about their rising bills and what help they will receive. I presented a petition to Parliament, I have written letters to the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and I have tabled parliamentary questions. At each turn, and indeed in the Prime Minister’s statement on the energy support package some weeks ago, reference has been made to support for those on communal heat networks, and we have repeatedly been told, including in the BEIS factsheet, that heat networks will receive support equivalent to both the energy price guarantee and the energy bills support scheme. Indeed, the Minister currently on the Front Bench replied to a written question from me last week promising that the Government want heat network consumers to receive support equivalent to that provided to mains gas and electricity consumers.

Yet in this Bill it transpires that thousands of households will receive support second hand through suppliers and only for six months. Until this morning we knew that other families on average would have their bills capped at about £2,500 for two years, whereas households connected to heat networks were going to face a cliff edge after six months. I appreciate that policy has changed today, but the lack of equivalence remains, which is why I was still keen to speak to these amendments.

As the Government seek to review their energy support scheme after six months, they need to address the lack of equivalent support for those living in buildings with communal heat networks. The Liberal Democrat amendments would ensure that every person who is part of a heat network received a cost reduction that is equivalent to that of those benefiting from the energy price guarantee, and for the same period of time. That would achieve equivalence, which the Government have proposed.

Those who live in buildings with communal heat networks should not be penalised for doing the environmentally responsible thing that the Government have urged them to do. I therefore urge the Minister to honour the Government’s promise and I hope that in his closing remarks he will address the issues that these amendments raise.

[Jim Shannon]

I want to begin by thanking the Government and the Minister for all that they have done thus far in the energy crisis. We all sometimes get a bit caught up with our lists of demands and the things we want done without appreciating the steps that the Government have taken; I want to put that on record before I start.

I am thankful that the people of Northern Ireland are to get the same support as those on the mainland. MPs from Northern Ireland had a Zoom meeting with the Secretary of State last Thursday, and we were very encouraged by what he said, by his delivery and by today’s legislation; this is good news and we thank him for that. Some 68% of households in Northern Ireland use oil, and there is a scattering of households across rural areas—some in my area and some out to the west of the Province—that still use coal, and we all know by how much the price of coal has jumped. The Secretary of State has given encouragement on how support will work for those who use the payment card system.

I want to make a plea on behalf of pensioners. Not every pensioner will use the £100 for energy, so I want to make sure there is a system whereby pensioners are protected and that, if they do not use all the money, the remaining sum can be carried over. The pensioners who have spoken to me about this want that reassurance.

My main reason for speaking is to make a plea for the working poor, as I did earlier in an intervention on the Secretary of State. I know that this finds receptive ears in the Minister and in the Government, because they see those issues that I see every day. There are people in full-time employment who were managing before the crisis but now have to find, for example, an extra £250 for their mortgage and an extra £30 a week for fuel for travel to Belfast from the peninsula. Dog food is also up by 30%, and groceries are up by 20%, with milk up from 99p last year to £1.75 this year—a 75% increase. Those are just a couple of examples of the massive increases that we are experiencing back home.

I go to work on an egg every day—two eggs, to be precise—but eggs are up from 99p for a six-pack to £1.39. Biscuits to go with a cup of tea, which we have in Northern Ireland with regularity, are up some 30%. Those are issues for the working poor, and that is not even adding in the energy issues. I want the Government to ensure that the working poor are key in what they do as they move forward. To be fair, I believe that they have.

I am thankful for the help given so far, but I believe that working families need that extra bit of consideration. They need help to get to work and help to pay for their groceries. They need an uplift in child benefit to allow them to ask for a wage increase. It is not about being able to take family holidays and eating out all the time; it is about surviving and being able to pay their mortgage and all else. What is being done to help those families? The Minister will give us some encouragement in summing up. It is good to have that on the record so that the people back home who ask me about these things will know what has been done. That is aside from energy costs, which are not even part of the equation at this stage.

There is the shop owner, for example, who cannot match the wage increases in the public sector, and her staff know that she cannot do any more than she is. How can we help them? It is great that public sector wages are going up, but how do small and medium-sized enterprises do the same? They cannot. The Government and the Minister must reach out and help. Those businesses are facing electricity bills at four times the previous rate. The hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) referred to an increase of almost 550%. How can anybody absorb that? That is impossible.

The price of goods is up massively. Businesses are fighting to stay alive. The SMEs in my constituency—there is a large number of them—create employment across sectors. So never mind matching public sector pay; we must do more to secure jobs in SMEs by helping their owners.

I gave a commitment that I would not speak for too long, Mr Evans, so I will finish with this. I recognise that money does not grow on trees—if only it did, we could lift it off every day we wanted it—but we do need employment and businesses who hire people. For the working poor, will the Minister and the Government do that wee bit more to ensure that they will not suffer adversely through the crisis that we are all experiencing together?

[Graham Stuart]

I thank all speakers for their contributions, which have been typically thoughtful. It was a pleasure for the whole Committee and it seemed right to have the ever-genial hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) bringing the Back Bench contributions to a close. I have a lot to cover but will none the less try to keep myself to a limited time.

The hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), who spoke for His Majesty’s Opposition, asked whether we will need to amend the Bill because of the changes announced this morning by the Chancellor. Counsel’s advice is that we will not. The powers in the Bill fit perfectly well with that six-month period and any review and extension that comes thereafter. He also asked about the definition of electricity generators, including community groups, and the appropriateness of that. The affirmative procedure will be used for the first regulations precisely to allow us to define that, understand that and ensure that we are targeting the organisations we wish to target and excluding those we do not.

On Henry VIII powers, and why clauses 21 and 22 do not have sunset clauses, the Bill makes clear that the clauses must be used in response to the current energy situation, or in connection with the Act, regulations or schemes within it. The vast majority of the powers in the Bill are time-limited, including the powers to make regulations and schemes that might require such modifications and directions.