Northern Ireland Troubles (Criminal Investigations etc) Bill
Debate between Jim Allister and Lincoln Jopp
Lincoln Jopp
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I know that there is support on the Government Benches as well—I just could not find it when I went out to get sponsors. There are many veterans on the Government Benches, and on the Liberal Democrat Benches, and there is a lot of support for this measure in the country. I hope that the Government will listen to that body of feeling.
Why does the Bill matter, and why should it get the support of the House? It matters because of a very important thing, which is called the moral component of fighting power. The British believe in a model in which there are three components: the physical, which is the guns and the bullets; the conceptual, which is the way in which we fight; and the moral, which is how we fight, why we are prepared to put yourselves at risk for the British citizenry—the man and woman standing next to us—and that we will do our best to achieve our mission, and potentially pay the ultimate sacrifice.
The moral component is more important than all the other things. Napoleon, who was a great believer in the model, observed that the moral is to the physical as three is to one. We undermine the moral component of fighting power at our peril. This gave me no joy: someone sent me a meme, which was a real photograph of the former Prime Minister—it was not mocked up—addressing a load of troops who were getting ready to deploy, and the caption said, “We want you to go to Ukraine, where we will ask you to do things we’re going to prosecute you for in 30 years’ time.”
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
May I first thank the hon. Member for his service in Northern Ireland, and extend those thanks to the thousands of servicemen who came to my part of the United Kingdom to defend democracy and to defend us all from terrorist forces? He mentions moral issues. Is not the greatest flaw in the Government’s Bill the moral equivalence that it creates between the terrorist who wakens up determined to kill and the law and order agent who wakens up determined to defend people from being killed?
Lincoln Jopp
There is no moral equivalence in my book between men and women who served their nation in good faith and did a difficult job in a deadly environment, and what the terrorists did. It is worth pointing out, if any hon. Members are feeling queasy about my Bill, that one thing it is not is an amnesty. No one is looking for a free pass here. If, in the view of a Supreme Court judge, there is new, compelling evidence, by all means those cases should be reopened. But we cannot allow this never-ending not-so-merry-go-round of prosecution and investigation of our people to continue.
The trouble is, in Northern Ireland everything is totemic. Because the Good Friday agreement was a peace agreement, it deliberately did not answer the question, “Who won?” So, as an extension of the troubles by other means, this is becoming part of the answer to that question. The more people that can prosecute our troops, the more they seem to have answered that question. We must bring an end to it. I commend the Bill to the House.