NHS Spending

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Wednesday 6th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

The point that many of us made in the referendum campaign is that even the net figure—the more like £100 million net contribution that we make to the EU—is not a figure that we can bank on with any certainty because, even if it did materialise after an exit from the EU, it would be negated by the very smallest of contractions in the economy, which would itself reduce the tax base and the amount of public spending available. The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that that £100 million a week would be negated by a contraction in the economy as small as 0.6%. I do not think any of the economic forecasts said that the contraction would be as small as that; all of them said that it would be much bigger than that.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

I share the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns about—with your permission, Mr Speaker—the lie on the side of the bus. As Secretary of State for Health, will he now, on behalf of the whole country, and particularly on behalf of people who were deceived and let down by that claim, take up with the Electoral Commission why that lie was allowed to stand for so long?

[Mr Hunt]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concerns. Let me give him a challenging reply. The trouble that we have—those of us who disagree with the outcome—is that that issue was exhaustively debated and, for whatever reason, people chose to disbelieve our concerns or decided that they were not worried about it.

I understand why the shadow Health Secretary has brought the motion before the House, but the reason it is a difficult one to debate is that essentially the argument about the £350 million, or the £120 million, or the £100 million is dependent on the state of the economy. That is something that we cannot know now, only 12 days after the Brexit vote result. However worried we are about the impact of that vote, in discussions about the economy we have to be careful not to talk it down, because in the end we have a responsibility to recognise that there may be opportunities and we need to make the most of the ones that exist.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jamie Reed]

On the point my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) has just made about having an assessment if we do end up, essentially, forcibly repatriating EU citizens in the United Kingdom, there will of course be a flip side: something like 3 million British expats in the EU would have to return to the UK as well. Many of them are, to put it politely, of pensionable age, with challenging health demands in many regards. Will the Secretary of State also provide an assessment of what effect that would have on the national health service?

[Mr Hunt]

I am sure that that is analysis we can do, but I cannot do it at the Dispatch Box as a direct response to the hon. Gentleman. However, as I am sure he is well aware—we made this point during the whole Brexit referendum debate—we have reciprocal health arrangements with other EU countries at the moment. Those are immensely convenient to people travelling to and visiting other European countries, because they mean those people can access healthcare completely free of charge. The bill is actually sent to the Government, and that arrangement includes pensioners who have retired to Spain and France and Italy as well. It would be very sad if, as a result of the new relationship with the EU, we lost that convenience. That is one of the reasons why I am confident that other EU countries will be happy for British pensioners to remain in them. As long as those countries are able to charge us for the healthcare costs, the burden to them should be minimal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. It was a terrible tragedy—I had constituents who died—and I can confirm that we will be meeting the commitments made by the Prime Minister to bring forward a solution very shortly.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

The House will have seen that the pitch is being carefully rolled by the Secretary of State today for future service closures around the country. Last week, a former care Minister was reported as saying that the £22 billion of efficiency savings the Government had signed up to were “virtually impossible” to achieve and that everyone knew it. Given that he is one of the few people to have seen the detail of the efficiency savings, this does not fill anybody with confidence. Will the Secretary of State now commit to publishing the details of the efficiency savings so that Members, the public at large, patient groups and medical professionals can have a proper and open debate about what it means?

[Mr Hunt]

We will of course publish how we are going to make these efficiency savings. We have already started with a crackdown on agency spend and a crackdown on consultancy spend, and with the work that Lord Carter, a Labour peer, has done to improve hospital procurement and rostering.

Let me gently say to the hon. Gentleman, however, that he went into the election promising £2.5 billion more for the NHS—£5.5 billion less than we did—and most of that was from the mansion tax that Labour now says was a bad idea. So there would have been nearly £8 billion more of efficiency savings under Labour’s plans than under this Government’s plans, and he should recognise the progress we are making.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 2nd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I remind the House at the start of the Parliament—this might be of particular benefit to new Members—that topical questions are supposed to be significantly shorter than substantive questions: the shorter the better, and the more we will get through.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has said that safe care and good finances go together, but clinical negligence claims are up by 80% since 2010, while trusts are posting huge deficits. Does he think that finances have deteriorated because care quality has deteriorated or that care quality has deteriorated because finances have deteriorated?

[Mr Hunt]

The evidence is very clear that safer hospitals end up having lower costs, because one of the most expensive things that can be done in healthcare is to botch an operation, which takes up huge management time as well as being an absolute tragedy for the individual involved. My message to the NHS is this: the best way to reduce your costs and deliver these challenging efficiencies is to improve care for patients. Our best hospitals, like Salford Royal and those run by University Hospitals Birmingham NHS Foundation Trust, do exactly that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is one of the underlying causes of pressure in A and Es that for an over-75 attending an A and E in winter, there is an 80% chance that, rather than going home, they will be admitted to hospital and probably stay there a long time. That is why improving community care, as she says, is at the heart of this Government’s strategy to reduce pressure on hospitals.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

If it is not too late, let me wish you, Mr Speaker, a happy new year.

The care failings uncovered by the Care Quality Commission at Hinchingbrooke hospital are appalling and unacceptable. The inspection

“found poor emotional and physical care which was not safe or caring.”

The response to call bells was so bad that some patients were told to soil themselves; drinks were left out of patients’ reach; and one member of staff was overheard telling a patient,

“don’t misbehave you know what happens when you misbehave.”

Will the Secretary of State tell us when he was first told about the problems at Hinchingbrooke? Given that the CQC inspection happened in September, why was the trust put into special measures only last Friday?

[Mr Hunt]

What I can tell the hon. Gentleman is that what happened at Hinchingbrooke completely destroys what Labour has been saying about privatisation, because it was this Government who introduced an independent inspection regime, which did not exist before, that roots out poor care without fear or favour. That is what we have done in 18 hospitals run by the NHS and it is what we are doing at Hinchingbrooke run by the private sector.

Special Measures Regime

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I had hoped for a little more consensus on the issue of dealing with poor care. I am afraid that what we had from the right hon. Gentleman was a set-piece speech. However, let me go through the points that he raised.

First, the right hon. Gentleman spoke about nursing numbers. Let us look at the number of nurses since the Government took office. We have 6,200 more nurses on our wards than when he was Secretary of State for Health. Why is that? It is because we took the difficult decision, which he opposed every step of the way, to get rid of the bureaucracy, the primary care trusts and the strategic health authorities—19,000 administrators—so that we could afford more nurses, more doctors, more paramedics and more front-line staff. It is time that he admitted that he was wrong to oppose those important reforms.

The right hon. Gentleman then talked about trusts missing A and E targets. Despite the fact that we are doing better on A and E than he did as Health Secretary, he has missed the point about targets. It was an obsession with targets under Labour that led to the problems in Mid Staffs and many of the trusts that are in special measures today. Let us just take one example. [Interruption.] The Opposition should listen to this example because it provides an important lesson about targets that the Labour party has still not learned. Buckinghamshire had a terrible tragedy in 2004 and 2005, when more than 30 pensioners died in a clostridium difficile outbreak. Why did that happen? The independent report said that the trust was too focused on Government targets.

That is the dividing line. The Opposition want an NHS that is obsessed with targets. The Government recognise that targets matter, but that treating people with dignity, respect and compassionate care matters. Is it not extraordinary that the party that founded the NHS has got itself into a position where it does not care how people are treated in the NHS?

The right hon. Gentleman talked about social care. If he wants more funding for social care, why has he called for the better care fund to be halted, when it will put an extra £1.9 billion at the disposal of the people who commission adult social care?

Let us look at some of the examples that the right hon. Gentleman raised. He talked about Basildon. When he was Health Secretary, the CQC sat on a report about that trust for six months that talked about bloodstains on the carpets, blood on the floors and vital safety measures being ignored. When the reason why the report was not published for so long was looked into, people at the CQC said that they were afraid to publish something that could embarrass the Government of the day. Is it not time that he admitted that the way the Labour Government ran the CQC was wrong? We now have an independent inspections regime, which is a big step forward.

The right hon. Gentleman talked about Cumbria. There are real issues in some of the hospitals in Cumbria. However, when Labour was in office, somebody in one of those hospitals—North Cumbria—was paid £3.6 million because they were disabled for life. Should that not have been a warning sign? There were also issues at Morecambe Bay involving children.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

What are you doing?

[Mr Hunt]

What are we doing? We are doing what I set out in the statement. We are putting more nurses and doctors into hospitals that are in special measures. We are turning around the failing hospitals that Labour swept under the carpet.

Even if Labour has not understood the lessons of Mid Staffs, the NHS has. We have 6,000 more nurses; five hospitals are out of special measures; there is record public confidence in safe and compassionate care; and, from today, we have new plans to stamp out poor care in adult social care. When everyone in the NHS is so keen for those plans to work, is it not time that Labour ended its denial about the past and backed them as well?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 15th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. If the right hon. Gentleman would face the House, it would greatly avail us. I understand the natural temptation to look backwards—[Laughter.]—as in, behind him! But he must face the House.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

On 20 June, I wrote to the Secretary of State informing him of the claims of doctors in Cumbria that unless drastic action were taken to reduce the pressures on GPs’ work loads, patients could die. I have not even received a response. Why, having being given such a stark warning, is the Secretary of State sitting on his hands? There are fewer GPs today than there were during Labour’s last year in office. How can standards in general practice be improved when surgeries are dealing with a recruitment crisis?

[Mr Hunt]

Let me give the hon. Gentleman his answer now. According to the Royal College of General Practitioners, 40 million more appointments with GPs are being made in every single year than were made when Labour was in office, and we have 1,000 more GPs than we had when his party was in power.

Let me say very clearly that the way in which we will deal with this problem is by increasing the capacity of general practice and the capacity of primary care. The hon. Gentleman should be supporting that—and he might just think about the 48-hour target that Labour has been talking about. If a new target for GPs is introduced, they will simply cut the amount of time that is available for them to deal with the most frail and vulnerable patients, and that would be wrong.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 1st April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I do not know the details of that particular case, but I am happy to look into it. I would say that a quarter of our hospital in-patients have dementia, and it is incredibly important that hospitals continue with a revolution in the way they look after people with dementia. There are some fantastic examples of that around the country, and I want to give them every support and encouragement.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

GP access is a crucial element of out-of-hospital care, and the British Medical Association today said that the damage caused by this Government to the NHS has been “profound and intense”. Last week, the Royal College of General Practitioners said that more than a quarter of us now wait more than a week for an appointment with our family doctor. Within days of taking office, Ministers axed Labour’s guarantee of an appointment within 48 hours and took away the funding for evening and weekend opening. Under this Government, has it not got harder and harder to get an appointment with a GP? Let us have an honest, grown-up answer.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend is right to campaign hard on that issue. I agree that the funding formula does not always do justice to people, especially those in sparsely populated rural areas. I know that NHS England is trying to do what it can to move to a more equitable funding formula, but it is not something that can be done overnight. I encourage her to keep pressing on that issue.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

Welcome back, Mr Speaker. Easy access to GPs is a key part of out-of-hospital care for elderly and frail people. Days after the election, the Prime Minister scrapped Labour’s guarantee that gave patients a GP appointment within two working days, and took away funding that kept thousands of surgeries open in the evenings and at weekends. Now the Royal College of General Practitioners is warning that 34 million patients will fail to get an appointment. Will the Secretary of State listen to the Patients Association, bring back the 48-hour appointment guarantee and help older people to see their doctor when needed?

[Mr Hunt]

The reason that we got rid of that guarantee was that the number of people who were able to see a GP within 48 hours was falling in the last year in which the target was in place. It was not working, and that is why the British Medical Association and the Royal College of General Practitioners were against it. In the same survey that the hon. Gentleman quoted, the RCGP said it estimated that there had been a 10% increase in the number of GP appointments compared with when his Government were in office.

NHS

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I will make some progress, because I need to make one final point.

All of these changes cost money, at a time when we are still living with the economic mess we inherited from Labour. None of these changes would be possible without the tough decisions we took on public spending in 2010, all opposed by Labour, which allowed the NHS budget to be protected and, as growth returns to the economy, secured for the long term.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Mr Hunt]

No. Had Labour won the last election, the NHS budget would not just have been cut at the outset; it would have been cut and cut again as the country was brought to its knees in a Greece, Portugal or Ireland-style collapse.

[Mr Reed]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

Our amendment talks about the Francis report, which I know is desperately uncomfortable territory for the Labour Opposition—the 81 times they refused to have a public inquiry; the 50 warning signs missed by Labour Ministers and the officials working for them; the warning signs ignored at countless other hospitals now in special measures.

[Mr Reed]

rose—

[Mr Hunt]

It was a grim saga—

[Mr Reed]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Reed, the Secretary of State has repeatedly made it clear that he is not prepared to give way to you, so perhaps we could move on with the debate. Perhaps you will find another way to make your point.

Accident and Emergency

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Wednesday 18th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I want to make some progress on this because it was the central point of the shadow Health Secretary’s speech. The reason the 48-hour target was scrapped is very simple: access was getting worse, not better, under that target. On the right hon. Gentleman’s watch, the proportion of people getting an appointment within two days fell, while 25% of people who wanted an appointment more than two days ahead could not get one. They would call wanting an appointment for the following week and be told, “You can only get an appointment by calling less than 48 hours in advance.” But do not take it from me. This morning—

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

Nobody takes it from you.

[Mr Hunt]

Well, the hon. Gentleman should listen to the Royal College of General Practitioners if he does not want to take it from me. This morning, its chair, Dr Maureen Baker, said that Labour’s

“proposal to bring back the 48-hour target for GPs is an ill-thought out, knee-jerk response to a long-term problem.”

Unlike Labour, we listen and act when doctors tell us that Government targets are harming patient care.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 26th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

As ever, my hon. Friend speaks very wisely about this subject. In his review of A and E services, which was published a couple of weeks ago, Professor Keogh said that paramedics could deal with 50% of 999 calls on the spot, without taking people to hospital. I think that there is a big role for ambulance services that are prepared to upskill. It is also important for us to ensure that they have the necessary information. One of the main changes that we intend to make next year will ensure that they have access to the GP records of the people whom they pick up, so that they can give those people the care that they need in their own homes.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

The president of the College of Emergency Medicine has said that the Government’s reorganisation has made A and E recruitment worse; the chief executive of the NHS Confederation has said that A and E pressures have been compounded by three years of structural reforms; yesterday, we learnt that the number of nurses choosing to leave their profession had jumped by more than one quarter under this Government; and the Health Secretary himself admits he is worried by the fall in nurse numbers on this Prime Minister’s watch. I hope he listens carefully so that he can answer precisely: will he today give the House a guarantee that every A and E in the country will have enough nurses this winter?

[Mr Hunt]

Will the hon. Gentleman think about what he has said? He said he was against a reorganisation that got rid of 8,000 managers and put 6,600 doctors on to the front line. That is why we are doing nearly a million more operations every year and why waiting times for longer waits are shorter than they were under Labour. We are recruiting more doctors because we are putting money into the front line.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 22nd October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

Obviously, the suggestions my hon. Friend makes are extremely serious. If she lets me have a copy of all the things she is directly concerned about, I will look into it with the greatest priority.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

With regard to openness and transparency, the Secretary of State’s failure to extend the Freedom of Information Act to private providers delivering NHS services is fostering a culture of secrecy. As he forces clinical commissioning groups to tender more services to the private sector, and if he truly believes in openness and the independence of health regulators, will he follow the clear advice from Monitor and extend FOI legislation to private providers, or is he content to allow them to continue to withhold information from patients?

[Mr Hunt]

When it comes to transparency about care, there should be an absolute level playing field between private providers and NHS providers. To answer the hon. Gentleman’s question on regulators, what this Government are going to do, Mr Speaker, is ensure that the Care Quality Commission has statutory independence so that no Government can ever try to interfere with the processes of reporting poor care.

Health Services (North-West)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Thursday 11th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

With regard to pressures on A and E, we are working very hard with A and Es across the country to make sure that they learn the lessons from what happened last winter and are properly prepared for this winter. Those discussions will include the A and E departments that serve his constituents. He will know that any decisions about service changes or reconfigurations are a matter for the local NHS; they come to me only if they are referred to me following a formal proposal by a local health overview and scrutiny committee, and that has not happened in this case.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

Like other Members across the House—I speak particularly on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock)—I condemn the poltroonish way in which this statement has been handled. Will the Secretary of State concede that instability is corroding health services right across Cumbria? Will he guarantee that when North Cumbria University Hospitals Trust is acquired by Northumbria Trust this decision will not be yet again reconsidered?

[Mr Hunt]

Today is a sitting Thursday and we have followed parliamentary procedures. I am doing everything I can to help the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) to have as much engagement as she needs given that she was not able to be here at the start of the process. With regard to stability, the hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. If he wants stability and wants decisions to be taken decisively, then he has to support the Government when they take difficult decisions like today’s and not be opportunistic, in the way that the shadow Secretary of State was.

Care Quality Commission (Morecambe Bay Hospitals)

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

My hon. Friend has campaigned with great assiduity and distinction on this issue. The report about the culture of cover-ups and secrecy was the Francis report, and my job now is to do what is necessary to bring forward the change so that we move on and have a culture of openness and transparency. That means, yes, openness and transparency in this place and among Government Departments and regulators, but it also means creating a culture for front-line staff where they feel that they can raise concerns. We do not do that as well as we should, and it is even more important.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

I share a great deal of the sentiments that the Secretary of State has expressed. He said at the Dispatch Box that the involvement of lay inspectors in the CQC was a problem, yet the Keogh review, which I comprehensively support, is involving significant numbers of lay inspectors. Does the Secretary of State agree with that approach? Is it the right or the wrong way forward?

[Mr Hunt]

As I understand it, the terms of reference, the way it is conducted and the timetable for the review happening at the moment are being set independently, but we should give every support to the people doing that review to make sure that they have access to the clinical expertise they need.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 11th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I agree with my right hon. Friend on this issue. It is extremely important that all these plans take a holistic view both locally and nationally. That is why, in looking at how to resolve the A and E issues we have faced and the severe pressures last winter, we are looking not just at what happens inside A and E departments, but at primary care alternatives and the integration of social care services, which are all equally important.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

Perhaps it took the Secretary of State so long to visit an A and E unit because he could not get in. In the midst of England’s A and E services experiencing their worst waiting times for a decade, the Secretary of State criticised hospitals for coasting. Does he regret waiting for six months before first visiting an A and E unit and finding out for himself what damage his policies were doing to the front line of the NHS? Hospital consultants, A and E consultants and patients look forward with interest to hearing his answer.

[Mr Hunt]

We will take no lessons on being connected with the front line from the party that missed 50 warning signs about what was happening at Mid Staffs. The hon. Gentleman cannot make the narrow point about how many A and Es I visited during a particular period without addressing the broad point about how connected Ministers in his party were when they were in power. They rejected 81 requests for a public inquiry because they did not know what was happening at Mid Staffs.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Tuesday 26th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

There is far too much bureaucracy in the NHS, which is why I have asked the chief executive of the NHS Confederation to report to me on how we could reduce the bureaucratic burden on hospitals by a third. If there is a lesson from the Francis report on the tragedy at Mid Staffs, it is that we need to free up the time of people on the front line to care, which is what they went into the NHS to do.

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray) asked a key question. Under the secondary legislation being introduced by the Secretary of State under section 75 of the Health and Social Care Act 2012, local commissioning groups will be forced to allow private providers into the NHS. These private providers will be exempt from the Freedom of Information Act, which will make it harder for patients to compare data between providers. It cannot benefit NHS patients for core clinical services to be given to private providers that do not have to conform to the same standards of transparency as those in the NHS. Will the Secretary of State see reason, ensure a level playing field for the NHS and withdraw the section 75 regulations without delay?

[Mr Hunt]

Who exactly are the section-75 bogeymen that the hon. Gentleman hates: Whizz-Kidz who are supplying services to disabled children in Tower Hamlets, or Mind, which is supplying psychological therapy to people in Middlesbrough? The reality is that those regulations are completely consistent with the procurement guidelines that his Government sent to primary care trusts. He needs to stop trying to pretend that we are doing something different from what his Government were doing when in fact we are doing exactly the same.

Leveson Inquiry

Debate between Jeremy Hunt and Jamie Reed

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab)]

In the past 40 minutes I have watched the Prime Minister give the Secretary of State answers to the questions that he is being asked. Does the Secretary of State agree with the Prime Minister that the next great scandal in British politics is lobbying?

[Mr Hunt]

I think that forewarned is forearmed. In this process, we have seen the role of one corporate affairs adviser, and that is why this Government are conducting a review at the moment to consider the role of lobbyists and to ensure that we have proper transparency in the entire process.