Income Tax (Charge)

Debate between Jeremy Corbyn and Darren Jones

Tuesday 5th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Darren Jones]

The hon. Gentleman perhaps forgets that the vote is tomorrow. No doubt he will come to the House to vote to support the allocation of £22 billion of extra funding so that the national health service can cover the cost of the doctors and nurses who, under his Administration, were striking on the picket line while Ministers refused to talk to them. Under this Government, they are back on the wards and in the theatres delivering for the people of this country.

The Government recognise the need to reform the social care system, and we thank those who work in the system for the work they do to help those in need. That is why we agreed a £600 million funding increase for 2025-26, and we will return to this issue in the second phase of the spending review.

I politely say to Members that I understand the temptation to ask for more spending, as I often did in opposition, but Ministers have to explain how they will pay for it. If Opposition Members want more spending or, indeed, fewer tax rises, they will have the opportunity tomorrow to set out to the House what they would do differently. Would they increase income tax and national insurance on workers once again? Would they increase VAT on people who go to the shops? Would they increase corporation tax for businesses, which we have pledged not to do? Would they reject the investment in schools, hospitals, the police service and the future of our country? Given their behaviour under the last Administration, do they wish just to borrow money every single month to pay the bills, month after month, increasing the national debt and increasing the cost of the national debt, but not investing in the fabric of this country, as this Government will do?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

May I take the Minister back to the question of social care? I understand what he is saying and that proposals will be brought forward, but there are two things: immediately, there is a crisis in local government about simply paying for existing social care, and, for families all over the country, there is a crisis about how they will support people who are in care at the present time. Is there an aspiration to bring forward a much more comprehensive model that will provide hope for people who are often going deeply into debt, selling property and all kinds of things, just to support a loved one who is in desperate need of profound social care?

[Darren Jones]

I thank the right hon. Member for his question. This Government have aspirations to improve the social care system, and we will set out further detail on those plans in due course.

Lastly, although not related directly to the NHS or public services, I welcome the supportive comments from Members across the House about the mineworkers’ pension scheme and the Post Office Horizon compensation scheme. As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, I worked on those issues for many years when in opposition. We failed to persuade the former Government to do the right thing, but the great thing about being in government is that we can just say it is so, and it has been so. That is the difference that a Labour Government can make.

The Labour party has a proud heritage of delivering public services to meet the needs of the nation: the national health service, social security, comprehensive schools, the Open University, academy schools. This new Labour Government will seize the generational need to reimagine public services once again. We have an ageing society, fewer working people paying tax, increasing demand, failing standards and increasing costs. After 14 years of a Conservative Government, that is the legacy they have left this country. We will not walk by on the other side and ignore those challenges. We will set out how we will reform our public services, building on this Budget of investment, choosing it over decline, focusing on outcomes, prevention, devolution and innovation in order to modernise our public services.

As I have set out today, the big opportunity—the opportunity to build the new foundations of the new public sector—is technology. The productivity of our public service is held back by IT systems often dating back to the 1950s and the 1970s: fax machines in the NHS, an inability to share information between public services, tens of thousands of public servants doing their best to administer casework using paper. That situation has not been affected in any positive way over the past 14 years.

This is not about machine-learning algorithms, but about old computers in cupboards with information that is in desperate need of being transferred to the cloud. It is about the un-newsworthy but vital work of integrated software across Departments, an area of spending I protected and encouraged in phase 1 of the spending review. It is about what might seem obvious to people at home who are now used to doing their banking on an app or their shopping online, who cannot get through to a GP surgery, a decision on their universal credit or an answer to their tax question without a lengthy and often unsuccessful attempt to speak to someone on the telephone.

Our new digital centre of Government will drive digital transformation across Government, because modernising public services is not just a great opportunity; it is a non-negotiable requirement for any modern party in a modern Government today. If we had followed the Conservatives’ path of further decline, we would have broken public services that cost more, while failing the public who rely on them and the public servants who work in them. By choosing to invest, this party—this Government—will deliver a modern state that meets the needs of the nation and delivers a bright future for us all. Reform and growth, investment over decline—those are the choices reflected in this Budget and that is the change this Labour Government will deliver.

Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned.—(Gerald Jones.)

Debate to be resumed tomorrow.