Income Tax

Debate between Jeremy Browne and Baroness Primarolo

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Browne, you know full well that this debate is not a general debate on the Labour party or its leader, but a debate on income tax. You are now ranging far too wide, and I should be grateful if you came back to the point of today’s debate. I am sure you will find other ways to express your wider political views on the Labour party.

[Mr Browne]

I will do, and thank you for your guidance. I will move on to my practical and philosophical points.

My practical point echoes much of what was said by my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier). The basics of being a globally successful, wealth-creating economy are not that difficult to grasp. What we have to do is make sure that businesses can start up, expand and create jobs. I was struck by the fact that quite a few contributors to this debate said that they do not have many people in their constituency who earn over £150,000. However, that is not a source for celebration: we want to have more people who are starting companies successfully and are able to earn more than £150,000 because they are employing hundreds of people, exporting around the world and meeting demand in markets. The idea that these people should be reviled is utterly perverse. We want more of these people in every constituency.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Browne]

I will finish in a moment, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have not abandoned that, which is why people earning up to £10,500 pay no income tax under this Government, whereas under Labour the relevant figure was £6,500. Of course there is then a standard rate and a higher rate. The hon. Gentleman made a mistake in his speech when he talked about tax cuts for millionaires. Let me give an example, which is party political. The Leader of the Opposition is a millionaire who does not pay this top rate of tax, but somebody who has just got a job earning £160,000 a year is not a millionaire but does pay his 50p rate of tax. It was deliberately misleading from the hon. Gentleman and it reflected badly on him.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman will rephrase his point about the shadow Chief Secretary misleading the Chamber and then he will conclude his remarks because he knows we now need to move to the wind-ups.

[Mr Browne]

I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I do not really understand in what way it was inaccurate to say that was misleading, because it clearly was misleading.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. You are not to question the Chair. I am telling you, as the Chair, that you have accused the Opposition spokesperson of misleading this House, and that is unparliamentary and unworthy of you as an experienced parliamentarian. Therefore, I am asking you to rephrase it.

[Mr Browne]

I am extremely apologetic for implying that somebody who earns £160,000 a year is not a millionaire if they have only just started earning that amount, and—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Don’t play games, please, Mr Browne. You clearly said on the record that the shadow Chief Secretary, in his opening remarks, misled this House. Under the conventions of the House, that is not permitted. So I am, again, asking you now to rephrase or withdraw that remark.

[Mr Browne]

I withdraw the remark that I made a few moments ago and I apologise, of course, for behaving inappropriately in my speech. I conclude, as you would wish me to do, Madam Deputy Speaker, before we have the wind-ups, by urging the House to reject the motion, which would make the country as a whole poorer and make it harder for us to fund the public services on which everybody, including the least well-off, rely. It would also undermine the personal freedom of people who work, are entrepreneurial and create the necessary preconditions for us to be a successful country.

Scrap Metal Dealers Bill

Debate between Jeremy Browne and Baroness Primarolo

Friday 9th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr Jeremy Browne)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment (c) to new clause 1, subsection (3), leave out ‘a copy’ and insert ‘details of’.

Amendment (d) to new clause 1, subsection (4), at end insert

‘Such details shall be in a form prescribed by the local authority.’.

Amendment (a) to new clause 1, subsection (5), after ‘who’, insert ‘knowingly’.

Amendment (b) to new clause 1, subsection (5), at end add—

‘( ) It shall be a defence to any offence under this section if a copy of the licence had been displayed but had then been removed from display without the knowledge or consent of the scrap metal dealer.’.

New clause 5—Fraudulent display of licence—

‘Any scrap metal dealer who displays a licence purporting to be a site licence or a collector’s licence when the scrap metal dealer is not the holder of such a licence shall be guilty of an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.’.

Amendment 27, page 1, line 3, in clause 1, leave out ‘carry on business’ and insert ‘engage in activity’.

Amendment 28, page 1, line 5, leave out ‘carry on business’ and insert ‘engage in activity’.

Amendment 29, page 1, line 6, leave out ‘carries on business’ and insert ‘engages in activity’.

Amendment 34, page 1, line 8, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘3’.

Amendment 35, page 1, line 8, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 31, page 1, line 8, at end insert—

‘( ) If a local authority has reasonable cause to believe that a person is engaging in activity as a scrap metal dealer without a licence an injunction shall be applied for by the local authority against that person within 28 days.’.

Government amendment 1, in clause 2, page 1, line 17, at end insert ‘( ) name the authority,’.

Amendment 36, page 2, line 1, leave out paragraph (c).

Government amendment 2, page 2, line 6, after ‘licensee,’ insert ‘( ) name the authority,’.

Government amendment 3, page 2, line 8, leave out subsection (7) and insert—

‘( ) A licence is to be in a form which—

(a) complies with subsections (4) and (6), and

(b) enables the licensee to comply with section [Display of licence] (display of licence).

Amendment 37, page 2, line 10, leave out from ‘licence’ to end of line 11.

Amendment 90, page 2, line 15, in clause 3, at end insert—

‘(1A) No person with an unspent criminal conviction shall be a suitable person to hold a scrap metal licence.’.

Amendment 38, page 2, line 19, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 97, page 2, line 2, leave out ‘the applicant or’.

Amendment 39, page 2, line 21, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 40, page 2, line 25, leave out paragraph (d).

Amendment 41, page 2, line 33, leave out paragraph (a).

Amendment 42, page 3, line 7, leave out subsection (6).

Amendment 92, page 3, line 9, leave out subsection (7).

Government amendment 4, page 3, line 12, at end insert—

‘( ) the Natural Resources Body for Wales;’.

Amendment 43, page 3, line 14, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 147, page 3, line 14, leave out

‘has been convicted of a relevant offence’

and insert—

‘has any unspent convictions for any offence’.

Amendment 44, page 3, line 15, leave out ‘one or both of’.

Amendment 45, page 3, line 16, leave out ‘conditions’ and insert ‘condition’.

Amendment 46, page 3, line 17, leave out paragraph (a).

Government amendment 5, page 3, line 17, leave out

‘between specified hours of the day’

and insert—

‘except between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. on any day’.

Amendment 49, page 3, line 20, leave out ‘72’ and insert ‘48’.

Amendment 50, page 3, line 20, leave out ‘72’ and insert ‘96’.

Amendment 94, page 3, line 24, in clause 4, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.

Amendment 53, page 3, line 26, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 93, page 3, line 26, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.

Amendment 95, page 3, line 29, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.

Amendment 57, page 3, line 31, leave out subsection (4).

Amendment 54, page 3, line 32, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 55, page 3, line 33, leave out ‘one or both of’.

Amendment 56, page 3, line 34, leave out ‘conditions’ and insert ‘condition’.

Government amendment 6, page 3, line 35, leave out from beginning to ‘comes’ and insert—

‘A revocation or variation under this section’.

Government amendment 7, page 3, line 38, at end insert—

‘(6A) But if the authority considers that the licence should not continue in force without conditions, it may by notice provide—

(a) that, until a revocation under this section comes into effect, the licence is subject to one or both of the conditions set out in section 3(8), or

(b) that a variation under this section comes into effect immediately.’.

Government amendment 8, in clause 6, page 4, line 8, after ‘Agency,’, insert—

‘( ) the Natural Resources Body for Wales;’.

Government amendment 9, page 4, line 13, in clause 7, at end insert

‘issued by authorities in England.

( ) The Natural Resources Body for Wales must maintain a register of scrap metal licences issued by authorities in Wales.’.

Government amendment 10, page 4, line 14, leave out ‘register’ and insert ‘registers’.

Government amendment 11, page 4, line 21, leave out ‘register is’ and insert ‘registers are’.

Government amendment 12, page 4, line 22, after ‘Agency’, insert

‘or the Natural Resources Body for Wales’.

Government amendment 13, page 4, line 22, leave out second ‘the’ and insert ‘its’.

Amendment 58, in clause 8, page 4, line 30, leave out from ‘licence’ to end of line and insert—

‘need not notify the authority of that fact.’.

Amendment 59, page 4, line 31, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘three months’.

Amendment 60, page 4, line 31, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘six months’.

Amendment 61, page 4, line 36, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘three months’.

Government amendment 14, page 4, line 38, leave out ‘the Environment Agency’ and insert ‘the relevant environment body’.

Amendment 62, page 4, line 39, leave out ‘(2) or’.

Amendment 63, page 5, line 2, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘three months’.

Government amendment 15, page 5, line 4, leave out ‘the Environment Agency’ and insert ‘the relevant environment body’.

Government amendment 16, page 5, line 5, leave out ‘Agency’ and insert ‘body’.

Amendment 64, page 5, line 7, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Government amendment 17, page 5, line 10, at end insert—

‘( ) In this section “the relevant environment body” means—

(a) for an authority in England, the Environment Agency;

(b) for an authority in Wales, the Natural Resources Body for Wales.’.

Amendment 88,  in clause 13, page 7, line 40, leave out subsection (3).

Amendment 78, page 8, line 14, leave out

‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 79, page 8, line 15, leave out ‘one month’ and insert ‘14 days’.

Amendment 80, page 8, line 16, leave out ‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 81, page 8, line 19, leave out ‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 82, page 8, line 26, leave out ‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 83, page 8, line 33, leave out subsection (12).

Amendment 84, page 8, line 40, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 140,  in clause 19, page 11, line 5, leave out

‘the council of a district’

and insert—

‘county council or unitary authority’.

Amendment 106, page 11, line 5, leave out ‘district’ and insert ‘county, unitary authority’.

Amendment 107, page 11, line 9, leave out from ‘(a’) to ‘dealer’ and insert—

‘collects, purchases or sells discarded metal suitable for reprocessing for reward’.

Amendment 141, page 11, line 10, leave out ‘regularly engages’ and insert—

‘engages on more than 300 days in a calendar year’.

Amendment 108, page 11, line 10, leave out ‘in the course of that business’.

Amendment 142, page 11, line 31, leave out subsection (10).

Amendment 143, page 11, line 34, leave out subsection (11).

Amendment 145, page 15, line 1, in schedule 1, leave out paragraph (b).

Amendment 146, page 15, line 3, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 89,  in schedule 2, page 17, line 14, leave out sub-paragraph (2).

[Mr Browne]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thought that you were about to read out in full all the amendments in the group, which would have meant my not being called to action for quite a while, as there is a substantial number of them. I shall speak principally to new clause 1 and the other Government amendments relating to the heading “Licensing regime”.

The group relates to the licensing regime in the Bill, and in it the Government wish to create one new clause and to add 17 amendments to the Bill. Unfortunately, in our view, the amendments have been diluted by a significant number of amendments tabled by other hon. Members. I do not propose to address all the non-Government amendments separately, but we take the view that, as a whole, they do not add to what my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway) is seeking to achieve. We are therefore minded not to support them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Browne]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I remind the House that this is not a Second Reading debate; we are considering a new clause, so the Minister should concentrate on what that new clause brings to the Bill.

[Mr Browne]

Thank you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. Suffice it to say, the objective of the Bill is to prevent scrap metal theft and protect all our constituents, but let me turn to new clause 1 and the other amendments in the group.

In respect of the Government amendments, during the Bill’s Committee in September, members of the Committee contributed to a wide and interesting discussion as to whether the licence should be prominently displayed. That was prompted by an amendment from the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones), who wished to mandate this requirement and made a constructive contribution to our deliberations. The Government resisted the hon. Gentleman’s amendment on the basis that I agreed to consult appropriate organisations on the point before deciding whether local authorities should be burdened with a requirement that might have been considered unnecessary.

I duly undertook that consultation, as I said I would, and on 18 December I wrote to the Association of Chief Police Officers, the Local Government Association, the Welsh Local Government Association and the British Metals Recycling Association, asking three questions about the physical form of the licence. I am happy to provide any Member with the detailed response to the consultation at the end of the debate, but the overwhelming response from all the organisations was that the licence should be in a form that can be displayed.

New clause 1 reflects the consultation, creating a requirement that a scrap metal dealer, whether they be a site licensee or a collector, display their licence to operate. It requires that a site licensee displays a copy of the licence at each site identified in the licence

“in a prominent place in an area accessible to the public.”

Collectors must display a copy of the licence on their vehicle

“in a manner which enables it easily to be read by a person outside the vehicle.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I was just about to suggest that the Minister might like to have a drink of water, to give him a break.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 1 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 2

Records of dealings: disposal of metal

‘(1) This section applies if a scrap metal dealer disposes of any scrap metal in the course of the dealer’s business.

(2) For these purposes metal is disposed of—

(a) whether or not it is in the same form in which it was received;

(b) whether or not the disposal is to another person;

(c) whether or not the metal is despatched from a site.

(3) Where the disposal is in the course of business under a site licence, the dealer must record the following information—

(a) the description of the metal (including its type (or types if mixed), form and weight);

(b) the date and time of its disposal;

(c) if the disposal is to another person, the full name and address of that person;

(d) if the dealer receives payment for the metal (whether by way of sale or exchange), the price or other consideration received.

(4) Where the disposal is in the course of business under a collector’s licence, the dealer must record the following information—

(a) the date and time of the disposal;

(b) if the disposal is to another person, the full name and address of that person.’.—(Mr Jeremy Browne.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Mr Jeremy Browne]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Policing

Debate between Jeremy Browne and Baroness Primarolo

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr Jeremy Browne)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to conclude this debate. You have doubtless heard, Madam Deputy Speaker, of a khaki election, and we have the green and brown of the khaki coalition looking after police interests in England and Wales. It is ideal for me to have the opportunity to respond to the points raised by hon. Members on both sides of the House during the debate and to what I see as the four main criticisms made of Government policy in the Opposition motion. They are as follows: first, that the Government are not spending enough money—a recurring theme; secondly, that we are insufficiently authoritarian when considering the right balance between the power of the state and the liberties of the individual; thirdly, that we are too hasty, as a Government, in our enthusiasm for greater transparency and public engagement in policing; and fourthly—this is an overarching theme—that we are too enthusiastic overall about reform of the police service.

I shall go through those criticisms in the short time available. The first is that the Government are not spending enough money—this is what the motion describes as the “wrong-headed” pursuit of greater efficiency and value for money. It is, of course, always relevant to remind the House that the previous Government, having promised to abolish boom and bust, ended up presiding over an economy that went bust. The new Government came to office with our country looking down the barrel of a gun—we had a bigger deficit than Greece when we took office—and we had to make some difficult decisions to get to grips with that deficit. We have reduced the deficit, but this country is still borrowing a billion pounds every three days. Against that backdrop, it is just not credible to carry on spending money—borrowed money—with reckless impunity. The Government have no choice but to deal with the deficit, and as a service spending £14 billion a year, the police can and must make their fair share of the savings needed.

Underlying Labour’s analysis is a fundamentally flawed case, and I will sum it up for hon. Members. According to Labour, “The more money you spend, the better the results you get”—never mind cutting bureaucracy or getting good value for the taxpayer; it is spend, spend, spend. The problem is that the results do not bear out Labour’s analysis. Last week, the most recent independent crime statistics were published. I am sorry to disappoint Labour Members, but crime has fallen. It has fallen by 6% over the past year and by 10% in the two years since this Government came to office. It has fallen by 12% in the last year—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Bryant, I ask you to stop shouting across the Dispatch Box now.

[Mr Browne]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I was just reminding the House that the Government have presided over a 10% fall in crime in the past two years. The latest figures show that crime is lower in England and Wales than at any time since the official survey started in 1981. Chief constables are rising to the challenge of making efficiency savings and providing greater value for money. As Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary has said:

“The front line is being protected”.

Police reform is working. We have swept away central targets and reduced police bureaucracy. That shows that how the police are deployed, rather than their absolute numbers, is the key to cutting crime.

Emerging Economies

Debate between Jeremy Browne and Baroness Primarolo

Monday 14th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Jeremy Browne)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of emerging economies.

I am delighted to have this first opportunity to speak from the Government Benches, and even more delighted to serve for the first time under your chairmanship, Madam Deputy Speaker. I trust that the high-preference vote that I gave you in the ballot will mean that you will look favourably on me if I go astray.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

The hon. Gentleman joins a long line of Members who have said exactly the same; I will, of course, be even-handed with everyone.

[Mr Browne]

I did not doubt that for one moment.

I welcome this opportunity to debate the new Government’s policy on the emerging economies. Strengthening the UK’s relations with the fastest-growing areas of the world economy is one of the key foreign policy objectives of the coalition programme for the next five years. That was explicitly stated by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary when he opened the foreign affairs debate on the Queen’s Speech and observed that

“we live in a world where economic might is shifting to the emerging economies”—[Official Report, 26 May 2010; Vol. 510, c. 174.]

In the House, we all recognise the ongoing importance of Europe and north America to our foreign policy goals, but we must also be clear about where new opportunities increasingly lie. That means elevating our links with the emerging economies and expanding powers in other parts of the world as part of a distinctive British foreign policy. That is why, only a few days after the Government were formed, the Foreign Secretary and I were meeting counterparts from Mexico, Chile and several other emerging powers at the EU-Latin America-Caribbean summit in Madrid. The following week I also held talks with Foreign Ministers from Vietnam and Singapore, among others, at the EU-south-east Asia summit, which was also held in Madrid. I give an undertaking that I will be making our relations with emerging economies my biggest priority, with visits to several key partners, in the coming months.

Why is the issue so important? We live in a time of fundamental change, both economic and political. The last decade of the previous century saw a shift from the bipolar, cold war world that we had all become familiar with. The first decade of this century has seen another shift, just as dramatic, from a G8 world to a G20 world. Global economic decisions were once made by a grouping of European and north American nations in conjunction with Japan, but today such decisions are increasingly taking place within the G20—not only a much bigger group, but one that represents a much broader range of countries from every continent of the world. The UK strongly supports the G20, which reflects the economic realities of the 21st century and recognises the rise in the strength of powers such as China, India and Brazil. The next meeting of the G20, in Toronto a few days from now, will be an important opportunity to take this work forward.

It is impossible to get through one of these discussions without a barrage of fascinating statistics that people can take home, and I have a few to run past colleagues on both sides of the House. It is important to remind ourselves of how dramatic the change that we have lived through in recent years has been. In the past decade, China’s economic growth has averaged 9.9% a year, while the UK’s has averaged just 1.7% over the same period. India’s growth over the same period has averaged 7%. In 1980, China’s proportion of world GDP was just 2.6%; by last year, that had risen to 8.5%. According to some predictions, China’s economy may well equal that of the US as early as 2027, and by 2050 the Indian economy may well be bigger than the five largest European economies added together.