Scrap Metal Dealers Bill

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts

Friday 9th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr Jeremy Browne)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment (c) to new clause 1, subsection (3), leave out ‘a copy’ and insert ‘details of’.

Amendment (d) to new clause 1, subsection (4), at end insert

‘Such details shall be in a form prescribed by the local authority.’.

Amendment (a) to new clause 1, subsection (5), after ‘who’, insert ‘knowingly’.

Amendment (b) to new clause 1, subsection (5), at end add—

‘( ) It shall be a defence to any offence under this section if a copy of the licence had been displayed but had then been removed from display without the knowledge or consent of the scrap metal dealer.’.

New clause 5—Fraudulent display of licence—

‘Any scrap metal dealer who displays a licence purporting to be a site licence or a collector’s licence when the scrap metal dealer is not the holder of such a licence shall be guilty of an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.’.

Amendment 27, page 1, line 3, in clause 1, leave out ‘carry on business’ and insert ‘engage in activity’.

Amendment 28, page 1, line 5, leave out ‘carry on business’ and insert ‘engage in activity’.

Amendment 29, page 1, line 6, leave out ‘carries on business’ and insert ‘engages in activity’.

Amendment 34, page 1, line 8, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘3’.

Amendment 35, page 1, line 8, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 31, page 1, line 8, at end insert—

‘( ) If a local authority has reasonable cause to believe that a person is engaging in activity as a scrap metal dealer without a licence an injunction shall be applied for by the local authority against that person within 28 days.’.

Government amendment 1, in clause 2, page 1, line 17, at end insert ‘( ) name the authority,’.

Amendment 36, page 2, line 1, leave out paragraph (c).

Government amendment 2, page 2, line 6, after ‘licensee,’ insert ‘( ) name the authority,’.

Government amendment 3, page 2, line 8, leave out subsection (7) and insert—

‘( ) A licence is to be in a form which—

(a) complies with subsections (4) and (6), and

(b) enables the licensee to comply with section [Display of licence] (display of licence).

Amendment 37, page 2, line 10, leave out from ‘licence’ to end of line 11.

Amendment 90, page 2, line 15, in clause 3, at end insert—

‘(1A) No person with an unspent criminal conviction shall be a suitable person to hold a scrap metal licence.’.

Amendment 38, page 2, line 19, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 97, page 2, line 2, leave out ‘the applicant or’.

Amendment 39, page 2, line 21, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 40, page 2, line 25, leave out paragraph (d).

Amendment 41, page 2, line 33, leave out paragraph (a).

Amendment 42, page 3, line 7, leave out subsection (6).

Amendment 92, page 3, line 9, leave out subsection (7).

Government amendment 4, page 3, line 12, at end insert—

‘( ) the Natural Resources Body for Wales;’.

Amendment 43, page 3, line 14, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 147, page 3, line 14, leave out

‘has been convicted of a relevant offence’

and insert—

‘has any unspent convictions for any offence’.

Amendment 44, page 3, line 15, leave out ‘one or both of’.

Amendment 45, page 3, line 16, leave out ‘conditions’ and insert ‘condition’.

Amendment 46, page 3, line 17, leave out paragraph (a).

Government amendment 5, page 3, line 17, leave out

‘between specified hours of the day’

and insert—

‘except between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. on any day’.

Amendment 49, page 3, line 20, leave out ‘72’ and insert ‘48’.

Amendment 50, page 3, line 20, leave out ‘72’ and insert ‘96’.

Amendment 94, page 3, line 24, in clause 4, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.

Amendment 53, page 3, line 26, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 93, page 3, line 26, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.

Amendment 95, page 3, line 29, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘shall’.

Amendment 57, page 3, line 31, leave out subsection (4).

Amendment 54, page 3, line 32, leave out ‘or any site manager’.

Amendment 55, page 3, line 33, leave out ‘one or both of’.

Amendment 56, page 3, line 34, leave out ‘conditions’ and insert ‘condition’.

Government amendment 6, page 3, line 35, leave out from beginning to ‘comes’ and insert—

‘A revocation or variation under this section’.

Government amendment 7, page 3, line 38, at end insert—

‘(6A) But if the authority considers that the licence should not continue in force without conditions, it may by notice provide—

(a) that, until a revocation under this section comes into effect, the licence is subject to one or both of the conditions set out in section 3(8), or

(b) that a variation under this section comes into effect immediately.’.

Government amendment 8, in clause 6, page 4, line 8, after ‘Agency,’, insert—

‘( ) the Natural Resources Body for Wales;’.

Government amendment 9, page 4, line 13, in clause 7, at end insert

‘issued by authorities in England.

( ) The Natural Resources Body for Wales must maintain a register of scrap metal licences issued by authorities in Wales.’.

Government amendment 10, page 4, line 14, leave out ‘register’ and insert ‘registers’.

Government amendment 11, page 4, line 21, leave out ‘register is’ and insert ‘registers are’.

Government amendment 12, page 4, line 22, after ‘Agency’, insert

‘or the Natural Resources Body for Wales’.

Government amendment 13, page 4, line 22, leave out second ‘the’ and insert ‘its’.

Amendment 58, in clause 8, page 4, line 30, leave out from ‘licence’ to end of line and insert—

‘need not notify the authority of that fact.’.

Amendment 59, page 4, line 31, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘three months’.

Amendment 60, page 4, line 31, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘six months’.

Amendment 61, page 4, line 36, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘three months’.

Government amendment 14, page 4, line 38, leave out ‘the Environment Agency’ and insert ‘the relevant environment body’.

Amendment 62, page 4, line 39, leave out ‘(2) or’.

Amendment 63, page 5, line 2, leave out ‘28 days’ and insert ‘three months’.

Government amendment 15, page 5, line 4, leave out ‘the Environment Agency’ and insert ‘the relevant environment body’.

Government amendment 16, page 5, line 5, leave out ‘Agency’ and insert ‘body’.

Amendment 64, page 5, line 7, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Government amendment 17, page 5, line 10, at end insert—

‘( ) In this section “the relevant environment body” means—

(a) for an authority in England, the Environment Agency;

(b) for an authority in Wales, the Natural Resources Body for Wales.’.

Amendment 88,  in clause 13, page 7, line 40, leave out subsection (3).

Amendment 78, page 8, line 14, leave out

‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 79, page 8, line 15, leave out ‘one month’ and insert ‘14 days’.

Amendment 80, page 8, line 16, leave out ‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 81, page 8, line 19, leave out ‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 82, page 8, line 26, leave out ‘or an officer of a local authority’.

Amendment 83, page 8, line 33, leave out subsection (12).

Amendment 84, page 8, line 40, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 140,  in clause 19, page 11, line 5, leave out

‘the council of a district’

and insert—

‘county council or unitary authority’.

Amendment 106, page 11, line 5, leave out ‘district’ and insert ‘county, unitary authority’.

Amendment 107, page 11, line 9, leave out from ‘(a’) to ‘dealer’ and insert—

‘collects, purchases or sells discarded metal suitable for reprocessing for reward’.

Amendment 141, page 11, line 10, leave out ‘regularly engages’ and insert—

‘engages on more than 300 days in a calendar year’.

Amendment 108, page 11, line 10, leave out ‘in the course of that business’.

Amendment 142, page 11, line 31, leave out subsection (10).

Amendment 143, page 11, line 34, leave out subsection (11).

Amendment 145, page 15, line 1, in schedule 1, leave out paragraph (b).

Amendment 146, page 15, line 3, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 89,  in schedule 2, page 17, line 14, leave out sub-paragraph (2).

[Mr Browne]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thought that you were about to read out in full all the amendments in the group, which would have meant my not being called to action for quite a while, as there is a substantial number of them. I shall speak principally to new clause 1 and the other Government amendments relating to the heading “Licensing regime”.

The group relates to the licensing regime in the Bill, and in it the Government wish to create one new clause and to add 17 amendments to the Bill. Unfortunately, in our view, the amendments have been diluted by a significant number of amendments tabled by other hon. Members. I do not propose to address all the non-Government amendments separately, but we take the view that, as a whole, they do not add to what my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Richard Ottaway) is seeking to achieve. We are therefore minded not to support them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Browne]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I remind the House that this is not a Second Reading debate; we are considering a new clause, so the Minister should concentrate on what that new clause brings to the Bill.

[Mr Browne]

Thank you for your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker. Suffice it to say, the objective of the Bill is to prevent scrap metal theft and protect all our constituents, but let me turn to new clause 1 and the other amendments in the group.

In respect of the Government amendments, during the Bill’s Committee in September, members of the Committee contributed to a wide and interesting discussion as to whether the licence should be prominently displayed. That was prompted by an amendment from the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones), who wished to mandate this requirement and made a constructive contribution to our deliberations. The Government resisted the hon. Gentleman’s amendment on the basis that I agreed to consult appropriate organisations on the point before deciding whether local authorities should be burdened with a requirement that might have been considered unnecessary.

I duly undertook that consultation, as I said I would, and on 18 December I wrote to the Association of Chief Police Officers, the Local Government Association, the Welsh Local Government Association and the British Metals Recycling Association, asking three questions about the physical form of the licence. I am happy to provide any Member with the detailed response to the consultation at the end of the debate, but the overwhelming response from all the organisations was that the licence should be in a form that can be displayed.

New clause 1 reflects the consultation, creating a requirement that a scrap metal dealer, whether they be a site licensee or a collector, display their licence to operate. It requires that a site licensee displays a copy of the licence at each site identified in the licence

“in a prominent place in an area accessible to the public.”

Collectors must display a copy of the licence on their vehicle

“in a manner which enables it easily to be read by a person outside the vehicle.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I was just about to suggest that the Minister might like to have a drink of water, to give him a break.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 1 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 2

Records of dealings: disposal of metal

‘(1) This section applies if a scrap metal dealer disposes of any scrap metal in the course of the dealer’s business.

(2) For these purposes metal is disposed of—

(a) whether or not it is in the same form in which it was received;

(b) whether or not the disposal is to another person;

(c) whether or not the metal is despatched from a site.

(3) Where the disposal is in the course of business under a site licence, the dealer must record the following information—

(a) the description of the metal (including its type (or types if mixed), form and weight);

(b) the date and time of its disposal;

(c) if the disposal is to another person, the full name and address of that person;

(d) if the dealer receives payment for the metal (whether by way of sale or exchange), the price or other consideration received.

(4) Where the disposal is in the course of business under a collector’s licence, the dealer must record the following information—

(a) the date and time of the disposal;

(b) if the disposal is to another person, the full name and address of that person.’.—(Mr Jeremy Browne.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Mr Jeremy Browne]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.