Prison Safety

Debate between Jayne Kirkham and Michelle Welsh

Tuesday 23rd June 2026 Westminster Hall

[Michelle Welsh]

One would think my hon. Friend could read my speech over my shoulder, because that is the next thing I will talk about. There remains a staffing crisis across our prisons, with officer numbers falling and many leaving the profession after only one or two years. I therefore ask the Minister, as my hon. Friend has done, what steps the Government are taking to improve staff retention, given its direct impact on prison safety. Our prisons are losing out on experienced members of staff, meaning that officers who often do not have the necessary experience or training have to handle situations for which they are dangerously unprepared.

Finally, I would like to raise the impact of the safety of prisons on the wider public. Time and again, when I speak to residents and the local police force, I am told about the endless cycle of incarceration and offending that is plaguing our streets. The local police and shop owners in Hucknall in my constituency know exactly who the offenders are who steal from businesses. The police do all they can—they collect evidence, they make arrests and they bring offenders to trial—but they know that in a year’s time those individuals will be back on the street committing the very same offences in the very same community. This is not a sustainable system. Discussions about rehabilitation and treatment of prisoners are often overlooked or trivialised, but access to addiction support, healthcare and education is essential if offenders are to break the cycle of crime. As long as our prisons do not provide adequate rehabilitation, our streets will never be safe.

[Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing this important debate. I, too, went to HMP Wandsworth not very long ago. There was an incident on the wing: something happened and the prison officers had to shut all the doors and run. That was a horrible example of what they deal with every day. The violence is there: it is real, and I have seen it.

The prison had just set up a neurodivergent wing. I spoke to some of the prisoners, and the wing seemed to have made a real difference to them. We have been talking about rehabilitation; they had access to therapists and they were out of their cells doing things. That model seemed to work well. Does my hon. Friend agree that that could be looked at and rolled out on a wider scale, given how many prisoners—particularly male prisoners—have autistic traits?

[Michelle Welsh]

I absolutely agree. If the Minister has not been to Wandsworth, I ask him to go and see that model, which perhaps is something he can do going forward.

Offenders cannot focus on rebuilding their life if they are struggling simply to survive or are experiencing thoughts of ending their own life. I hope that the Minister shares my concerns about the safety and wellbeing of prisoners and staff at HMP Lowdham Grange and that he will take immediate steps to support the prison, the prisoners and the safety of prison officers.

Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Jayne Kirkham and Michelle Welsh

Committee stage
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q Hello, Mr Gerrard. Thank you for coming today. I am a Labour and Co-operative MP, so I am pleased to hear that you think the Bill will be good for the Co-operative Group. My first question is about the limit. You say that it will probably help you overall. Perhaps this is hard for you to answer, but for retail as a group, do you think that it is set at the right level?

Secondly, you said that the Bill may have positive effects for your smaller stores, in that you may be able to employ more people, and I wonder whether you can expand on that. The Co-operative shops in Truro and Falmouth are having issues at the moment with theft and violence against shop workers, which is not good, and the BID is providing support. Would the Bill give you the leeway to employ more people, even security people?

Paul Gerrard: I will start at the beginning, and hopefully cover all the questions. This is good for the Co-op Group as a whole. There are ups and downs, because 8% of our estate would not benefit—indeed, it may cost us—but overall it is a good thing. As well as being a director of the Co-op Group, I am a board member at Co-operatives UK, which is the apex body, and this is good for the co-operative movement. That is the first point.

At present, the rate system does not incentivise improvement or growth. There is a link to your question here: for example, if we put in CCTV to keep our colleagues safe, our rates bill goes up. If we put in air conditioning, not just for food safety but to reduce the ambient temperature and so the amount of refrigeration we need, our rates bill goes up. The rate system should incentivise growth. The structure—the two rates for under £500,000 and under £51,000—does incentivise investment and growth, and for us that would mean more shops and employing more people, but I am not sure the way the reliefs work does that. As I understand it, the improvements relief has to do with the shell of the shop, so putting in CCTV or a coffee machine will result in an increase in rates. So that structure definitely incentivises growth, but there are details about whether the system as a whole does.

The Co-op has been very loud on the issue of crime, and I have been to this place a number of times to give evidence about it. We very much welcome the rates proposals. It is self-evident that the changes the Chancellor made on national insurance contributions will cost us money, but we understand the choices that were made. What got a bit lost was what the Government announced on crime: a £5 million investment in Pegasus, 13,000 officers and the stand-alone offence. That will impact us: crime costs us £120 million a year and costs the sector £3 billion a year, so if we can make any kind of dent in that, we will get the leeway that you talked about.

Seeing these things in the round is important. On crime, it is about colleagues and security—we have doubled the money we spend on security—but it is principally about the way businesses and the police work. If businesses and the police work well, we can begin to tackle crime. The work that Chief Constable Amanda Blakeman, at North Wales police, has done in the past year on behalf of all police forces has been important, and we are beginning to see a much-improved police response.

[Michelle Welsh (Sherwood Forest) (Lab)]

Q I should probably confess that one of my first jobs was working at a Co-op—I do not know whether that is for the register of interests. In my constituency, we have seen the huge impact of a local store closing, especially on the most disadvantaged and most vulnerable. Over the years, I have been concerned about access to healthy food, children’s access to food and the ability of people with young babies to walk to a local shop. For many of my communities in Sherwood Forest, this is not about having food delivered; it is about being able to access it locally and frequently, because people are having to manage their money on a daily basis, not a monthly basis. They are buying one meal at a time, for example. The Co-op has played a vital role over the years and continues to do so.

We have seen the demise over the years of many local stores—not the Co-op, but generally, the store in the middle of the community that knows the local people. When I worked at my local store, I knew that if someone did not turn up for their Sunday paper, there was a problem. Promoting that sort of community feeling crosses all Government Departments, not just those dealing with health and wellbeing. Do you think the Bill will help to ensure that your local stores become more accessible and that you will maintain your connections with your community, and that it will be about working with the Government in all areas that deal with combating poverty and child poverty and improving child health?

Paul Gerrard: The short answer is yes. Fundamentally, the Bill will ease the burden of rates on small retail and leisure premises. That is the bottom line. Two thirds of our estate are below £51,000; they are the sort of shops you just described. The Bill will significantly reduce the burden on them and on shops between £51,000 and £500,000, so I think it will help.

In a number of things we have done, including our loneliness campaign, and in tackling retail crime, we see how shops in general can be anchor institutions for communities. I do not think we always recognise that in policy, but I think the Bill does recognise it in saying that that is, by definition, a good thing. Government could think more about what all sorts of retail can do—not just economically or in terms of jobs, but in terms of the impact they can have in communities. The Bill recognises that as a policy principle, and I think that can be a first step to thinking more about the way shops support and function in communities.