Advanced Research and Invention Agency Bill (Third sitting)

Debate between Jane Hunt and Chi Onwurah

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Chi Onwurah]

Before I give way to my hon. Friend or address the latest intervention, I will finish addressing one of the points made by the hon. Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock. He said that he could not imagine that any chair or CEO of ARIA would not agree to give evidence to the Science and Technology Committee. I remind him that Dominic Cummings, who was not the chair of ARIA but was certainly its chief architect, refused to give evidence to this Committee on the basis that he had already given evidence to another Committee, and once was enough in terms of accountability.

[Jane Hunt]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Chi Onwurah]

Let me deal with the previous interventions, to which I am currently trying to respond. The hon. Member for South Basildon and East Thurrock says that he cannot imagine such a circumstance, but I want undeniable accountability written through the Bill. I am concerned about the level of accountability in the Bill, and in some of the evidence, and in other discussion on the Bill, it has been suggested that accountability is a good thing, because that bureaucracy prevents people getting their own way. Perhaps the CEO might feel that they have better things to do than be accountable. In addition, this is about making the appointment of the CEO subject to the scrutiny of the Science and Technology Committee. What could be wrong with that?

As for the intervention from the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme, it is the first time that I have heard The Telegraph called the Opposition. The charges of sleaze are far broader than those coming from the Labour party. Indeed, it really cannot be said that we have led the charge when it comes to concerns about multiple examples of sleaze. I was really interested in the vaccine taskforce example that the hon. Gentleman gave. I congratulate the vaccine taskforce, and indeed the NHS. It is interesting that it is never called the “NHS vaccine roll-out” but we do talk about NHS Test and Trace, when the NHS is rolling out the vaccine much more than it is testing and tracing.

I asked about that £650,000 funding at parliamentary questions, and it did not go towards finding hard-to-reach groups—I will write to the hon. Gentleman with the response. It may have gone to good purposes, but to argue that it was for hard-to-reach groups is to take accountability away from that expenditure. That is worthy of criticism.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jane Hunt]

I have two points. First, UKRI is not broken. It is a great service that offers, through a process of application, grants and so on, a means to research and development. What ARIA does is create an opportunity for exceptional brains to make exceptional decisions and, with some money behind them, to try to develop things. It is not underhand or any of the things being said; it is just an opening and an opportunity. Someone said the other day that the coders in their bedrooms, who do not have the resources to make bids or applications, nor the language behind them to be successful, can get into that system. UKRI is not broken; ARIA is something separate.

With absolutely the greatest respect to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central, who was not here at the beginning, for good reasons, a number of Opposition Members have referred to Dominic Cummings. I am sorry, but I am not happy about that; we have before us a highly respected female Minister putting forward the Bill. We should respect her and her position and stop referring to somebody unelected who is not even in the room.

[Chi Onwurah]

There were a number of important interventions. Let me first respond to my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central. She was right and did well to remind us of the normalcy of the Science and Technology Committee looking at important science appointments and how eminently qualified the Committee is to do that. I referred somewhat light-heartedly to The Telegraph not being the Opposition. She did well to remind us that important elements of the sleaze scandals—plural—that are circulating were discovered by investigative journalism of the highest quality, sometimes outside the mainstream press, which is not often appropriately and adequately supported on access.

On the hon. Member for Loughborough’s intervention, first, it is not the Opposition who are saying that UKRI is broken. She does not like my mentioning Dominic Cummings, but I must say that he and others have criticised UKRI and the existing science establishment. Let us remind ourselves that UKRI is only three years old, but they have criticised it as inadequate and argued for the creation of something that is not subject to huge bureaucracy. She claims that this will not be a barrier to the great coder in their garage who has some fantastic idea.

We are trying to prevent ARIA from being used simply by those in the know who have connections. That great coder in their garage is unlikely to know who to apply to for an ARIA grant or prize and will not have the connections to get to the front of the queue. I am sure that the Minister has considered that sometimes bureaucracy is about ensuring equality of access and opportunity. ARIA wants to move fast, and we recognise that, but it needs to ensure that the right accountability and confidence are in place. As other hon. Members have emphasised, we cannot allow the kind of sleaze we have seen elsewhere, particularly with regard to procurement during the pandemic. We cannot allow that in science. I will not allow it to stain our great scientific heritage and hope for the future.

I have mentioned the Minister’s interest a number of times. I hold her in the greatest respect, but she is very misplaced in her argument that I am somehow discriminating against her by referring to the self-vaunted architect of ARIA—he made that much clear during his Select Committee evidence, and he implied that it was one of the conditions for his becoming the Prime Minister’s chief adviser—and to the antecedents of the agency that this Bill is about. That does her credibility no favours.

Let me continue. I am happy to take interventions, although I imagine that the Whips would like us to make progress. With none of the usual safeguards, and with complete freedom for the Secretary of State appointed by the Government, we are concerned that this is a recipe for sleaze in science. There is no detail in the Bill—perhaps the Minister could think about how to approve this—about who, if anyone, will play a role in making or scrutinising the appointments of chair, non-executive members and the first chief executive officer. There must be a concern about cronyism and protecting ARIA’s independence.

Let me consider a point made earlier. We do not know whether the roles of the chair and chief executive of ARIA will be added to the schedule of the Public Appointments Order in Council so that they can be independently regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. If the answer is yes, I would appreciate clarity. Will the significant appointments to the roles of chair and chief executive of ARIA require a senior independent panel member, approved by the commissioner, to sit on the advisory assessment process? If not, how will the Secretary of State ensure a fair and open-minded recruitment process for those positions?

The public are frankly tired of backroom deals between mates who go to the same pub. I want the CEO to have a transformative impact on British society. It is right that at least their appointment should be subject to public scrutiny. There has been much criticism of the revolving door between the public and private sector. We want ARIA to be above such criticism. Let us not allow it to become mired in grubby deals before it has even begun.

Some might say that the Government are taking a rather Stalinist approach to scientific research, where a small group of really smart men, as it always was, are left to decide how best to pursue socioeconomic projects. That is a model that basically entrusts resources to a small group of experts, without democratic oversight. I thought the other side were not over-enamoured with experts. If a Labour Government had done that, one suspects they would have had to face comparison to some of the USSR’s leaders.

I emphasise that I do not believe that the Minister is subject to groupthink, and I am sure, or at least I hope, that the Secretary of State would never compromise himself in the way that the Conservative ex-Prime Minister David Cameron has, by giving jobs to buddies, but the fact is that people recruit people like themselves. Surely we need broader input. Dominic Cummings said in his evidence to the Science and Technology Committee that the agency should have “extreme freedom”. The very least we should expect is that Parliament should be able to scrutinise the appointment.

To emphasise that our concerns are credible and legitimate, I point the Committee to supporting points made in evidence. Dame Ottoline Leyser from UKRI said:

“The whole ability of this organisation to operate in this edge-of-the-edge really visionary way that we are all very excited about is critically dependent on those people; and they are in very short supply.”—[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 8, Q4.]

She added that

“it is crucial for the success of ARIA—it is everything. We need to go into the search process with absolute resolve to wait until we find the right people, and not appoint people just because there is a vacancy.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 16, Q13.]

On the mission, Professor James Wilsdon said that

“in relying on appointing the leadership as the route to answering the question, all you do is move the source of the problem.”

That is why the amendment is so important. The Government are not taking responsibility for the mission, so the mission is with the chief executive officer. Surely the CEO must have some accountability. As Professor Wilsdon went on to say:

“If the Government have not been able to resolve the question of what it is for, how do we identify who the right leaders are?...I don’t see how you can find the right people. If you do find people, how do you avoid it simply becoming a tool, a plaything, of their prior interests and priorities?” ––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 19, Q16.]

The Science and Technology Committee could investigate prior interests and priorities.

We heard from Professor Philip Bond that he is

“a big believer in giving the chair and the director enormous amounts of autonomy. You pick people you are willing to bet on and then hand them a lot of trust.”––[Official Report, Advanced Research and Invention Agency Public Bill Committee, 14 April 2021; c. 25, Q20.]

We are agreed that the Bill hands a lot of trust to the CEO, without making them accountable to Parliament or the public.

Finally, I want to quote from ARIA’s statement of policy intent:

“In shaping the research, culture, and setup of ARIA, the first CEO will have a significant effect on the technological and strategic capabilities of the UK over the course of generations. They will establish the philosophies, working styles, and cultural norms that make ARIA effective and distinct. They will recruit the first cohort of Programme Managers…enable them to launch the first programmes, sign the first research partnerships, and help define the strategic advantages the programmes aim for. They will position ARIA as a distinctive part of the UK’s research funding landscape that complements and expands the UK’s funding capability.”

Given the importance of the role, as clearly set out in that statement, to the science and technology landscape of this country, how can the Minister refuse to allow the Science and Technology Committee to have a role in that appointment?

Digital Infrastructure, Connectivity and Accessibility

Debate between Jane Hunt and Chi Onwurah

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

I would like to start by thanking the right hon. Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) and my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) for securing this important and excellent debate. When I first entered Parliament 10 years ago after 20 years as a telecoms engineer, I was somewhat disappointed by the lack of discussion on digital connectivity and digital opportunity. That has really changed in the past few months, although not significantly in Government time. Members have shown real knowledge, passion and understanding, and I hope that the Minister has been listening.

As several Members—most eloquently, I thought, my hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh)—pointed out, the covid-19 pandemic has highlighted the significant role that online services play in supporting people’s social lives, education, workplaces and communities. We have seen a huge shift in people’s dependence on digital. The Office for National Statistics estimates that almost 50% of people are currently working from home, and 80% of people told it that they feel digital technology has been a vital support to them in lockdown, if they have access to it.

Several Members—in particular the hon. Members for Beaconsfield (Joy Morrissey) and for West Dorset (Chris Loder) and the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael)—emphasised the economic importance of digital connectivity, but for it to play that role, we need it to be reliable and fast. The 2020 National Audit Office report “Improving Broadband” found that, at 14%, the UK has one of the lowest full-fibre coverage rates in Europe, as several Members observed.

The fact is that successive Tory Governments have presided over 10 wasted years for our telecoms infrastructure. The last Labour Government made great strides in building a digital economy. Our Communications Act 2003 set the strategy and vision, and our office of the internet was a world leader. We oversaw the roll-out of first-generation broadband to 50% of households by 2009 and were in the top 15% of global broadband speed tables, with competitive infrastructure positions.

[Jane Hunt]

I wonder whether the hon. Member agrees with me that, actually, it was the Labour Government who made telecommunications companies spend billions of pounds buying bandwidth that previously had been only a matter of hundreds of pounds. If they did not have that bandwidth, they did not have that network and they were not in the market.

[Chi Onwurah]

I am afraid that I do not have the time fully to go into the reasons why that intervention is wholly without value. First, we are talking about fixed networks here. Secondly, the huge improvement in the services that could be offered on spectrum meant that that spectrum was valuable, and it is in the public interest that valuable spectrum should have its value recognised.

This Government have flip-flopped and U-turned when it comes to our network infrastructure. As the right hon. Member for Tatton reflected, the Prime Minister initially promised full fibre to all by 2025. In their 2019 manifesto, the Government downgraded that pledge to universal gigabit-capable broadband to every home. Then, only last week, they sneaked out in the spending review plans to water down their broadband promises; instead of keeping to their manifesto promise, the Government are now aiming only to have a minimum of 85% coverage by that date. The budget for that plan remains the same, but now only £1.2 billion of the £5 billion will be made available up until 2024. We were promised roll-out; what we got was roll-back.

BT’s own analysis shows that at the current rate, full-fibre coverage will reach only 70% of UK premises by 2025 without the removal of key barriers, making even the revised target unrealistic. At the current rate, the Government’s 100% target will not be met until 2033, disappointing many Members, including the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis).

The Local Government Association also has major concerns about the Government’s intention to centrally procure and manage the contracts for the delivery of gigabit-capable broadband infrastructure. I hope that the Minister will take this opportunity to reassure local authorities that they will be involved in the local delivery of both broadband and 5G infrastructure.

For many, access to fibre is but a dream. As the hon. Members for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall), for Devizes (Danny Kruger), for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) and for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker) set out, in the wastelands of Wiltshire and the deserts of Dorset they have no, or very little, broadband access. There are 1.9 million households without access to the internet and 155,000 UK properties are unable to get decent broadband. In rural areas, 50% of rural premises have patchy and unreliable mobile reception. Nearly half a million rural premises cannot get decent broadband. The broadband universal service obligation is no such thing, with rural residents potentially charged tens of thousands of pounds to connect to broadband, as the hon. Member for Loughborough (Jane Hunt) highlighted.

We need to provide network access to protect the most vulnerable in our society. FutureDotNow estimates that between 175,000 and 500,000 of those who received letters instructing them to shield during the pandemic had no internet access, yet because the letters were peppered with references to websites, those individuals would find it incredibly difficult to access the information they need. Yet the Government do not even have a target for digital inclusion. Could the Minister speak to that?

Many Members made the point—I pay tribute to the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central and her all-party group, and the passion of my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting) in this area—that digital infrastructure is not enough. We need digital skills, which are economically key to keeping us safe online and unlocking the potential of digital. A lack of digital skills isolates people. To participate effectively online, individuals need devices on which to access the internet. Without them, individuals are excluded. What is the Minister doing to provide the digital skills and access that are needed?

I am aware that the Minister previously told the Select Committee on Digital, Culture, Media and Sport that although he wanted to do more to help those who are digitally excluded, there were limited resources. I think the Chair of the Select Committee dealt effectively with that point. I urge the Minister to find the political will and set out plans to ensure that nobody in the UK is left behind through a lack of digital literacy in this digital age, and that everyone can be an active participant in our increasingly digital world. Digital should be an enabler, not a divider.