Parliamentary Services for MPs

James Sunderland Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Fabricant]

I agree with my right hon. Friend, up to a point. I would argue that the problem is not one of people coming to this place, because they came to this place knowing that it was a risk. You do not become a Member of Parliament thinking you are here as of right. What concerns me more is that people who come here should think that they will be treated decently and that their staff will be treated decently, and that means being treated with kindness and compassion.

That brings me back to something that impressed me hugely. The duty of care is a great principle in English law: “Neither through action nor through inaction should someone cause someone else to be damaged.” We heard about it from members of the armed forces who gave evidence to the Committee.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

rose—

[Michael Fabricant]

My hon. and gallant Friend wishes to intervene, and I will let him do so in a moment.

Those members of the armed forces talked about the continuing treatment that people who join the forces are given right from the very beginning. The Chairman of the Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne, also talked about that in his excellent speech. It is the sort of treatment that we should be giving MPs, and perhaps their staff as well—again, right from the very beginning. We should be giving them knowledge that they can use when they eventually leave, and we all leave at some point. What was it that Enoch Powell said? I am looking at my friends on the Front Bench now! “All political careers end in failure.” It may not be true, but I think it probably is: “failure” in the sense that one leaves a ministerial career eventually.

[James Sunderland]

I commend my hon. Friend for his outstanding and thought-provoking speech. As Members will know, I served for a long time in Her Majesty’s forces—in the Army—and then left at very short notice to become an MP.

I will be honest: at times I have grappled with comparisons between the two organisations in which I have served. I think that Members do sometimes behave badly here— perhaps there is a lack of team spirit, perhaps people are uncompromising, perhaps people do not behave in the right way—but I am absolutely convinced of the sanctity of what politicians do, and I am also clear in my mind that the vast majority of Members on both sides of the House behave impeccably, are here for the right reasons and always operate in good faith. So my question to my hon. Friend is this: how do we convince people more broadly that politicians are a force for good? How do we convince them that we are here doing a very important job, that we work very hard, and that, actually, our intent, most of the time, is pure and honourable?

[Michael Fabricant]

I have an answer to that question, deep as it was. Stop watching Prime Minister’s Question Time; instead, watch parliamentlive.tv, and see the work that goes on in Committees and in debates like this, among others. Often there is huge consensus and co-operation between the parties on either side of the House.

The other day, I was present when some legislation was going through Parliament. The Liberal Democrats had tabled an amendment, and it was not a bad amendment, and we accepted it. I was rather amused, I have to say, that the Liberal Democrats looked more shocked than we were. They all started waving their Order Papers as if it were a victory—but the victory was that they had come up with a good idea and the Government had said, “Yes, it is a good idea. We will incorporate it in law.” And they did. That is the sort of thing that people need to see: that Parliament is a thoughtful place, and that on the whole, as my hon. Friend has just said, we strive to work together, and we strive to do what is best for the British people, and indeed for others, too, outside the United Kingdom, whether it be in war-torn Ukraine or in developing countries elsewhere in the world.

Nevertheless, the House has a duty of care to ensure that Members of Parliament can do their job as best they can by restructuring the existing systems, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke so marvellously explained, and by attracting people here by showing care for the time when they will eventually leave this place. The Daily Mail, and one or two other newspapers and one or two broadcasters were saying, “This report says we should be giving hundreds of thousands of pounds to Members of Parliament when they leave.” No, the report does not say that. But redundancy rules do exist for ordinary companies and for those who work in the civil service. For all the reasons I have explained, our job is far more volatile than those careers, because we can lose our job for reasons that have nothing to do with our own ability, or lack thereof.

Our redundancy payments should be the same as those in other sectors. Is that unreasonable? The press might say so; I would say it is just natural justice, and that is all the report asks for. I hope that people will read it and that the House of Commons Commission—we do not know what exactly it gets up to—reads it. I hope that Mr Speaker, who is very imaginative and for whom I have the highest respect, reads it. More importantly, though, I hope that something is done about it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow so many great contributions from across the House, including that of my SNP Front-Bench colleague, the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock), and, before her, that of the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant). It shows me that there are points of agreement across all divides in this place when he and I can agree on such an important matter as appreciation for the Whips Offices and how well they organise us all.

The right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller) took us through her vision for improving many aspects of how we run this place. I particularly appreciated her example of the effort, time and perplexity that people went through to get the crèche set up. We now think, “How was it not a thing before?” It is extraordinary to think that it was once a bar, especially for those of us who have arrived recently—I know that the memories of some are long. I am glad that we have the crèche, but it is astonishing that it took so long. Many of the points she raised are worthy of further exploration.

I am grateful to my friend the Chair of the Administration Committee, the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker), for his—as always—thoughtful, witty and entertaining but provocative contributions on how we appreciate Members and why it matters. I look forward to discussing it with him further. I thank him and his Committee for their important report. It was published after this debate was secured, so I will focus on parliamentary services, but we have a lot of work to do in picking up on his comments.

I put on record my gratitude and that of the Labour party for the thousands of members of House staff who support our work across an enormous range of professions and services, from the Clerks to the cleaners. We need their quality services so that we can best serve our constituents in our constituencies and represent them here.

The country, and indeed the world, saw the very best of the House service throughout the pandemic, during the lying in state of Her late Majesty the Queen, and, I would add, just yesterday for the very sudden arrival of one of the most important Heads of State in the world. On all those occasions and more, House staff have done Parliament proud; they carry out their duties with great distinction. The public possibly never realise just how hard the Doorkeepers work to ensure we are going the right way and are in the right place, for instance, but we see all those people do those things every day, and I thank each and every one of them for it. I also challenge us all to show our appreciation and our respect. Yes, they are there to help us to serve our constituents, but they are not our servants; they are our colleagues. We are grateful to them all.

Whether we are scrutinising the Government, making laws or debating the issues of the day, everything we do is for the benefit of the people we represent. That is what this debate boils down to. I cannot speak to every parliamentary service—colleagues who have trains to catch may be glad to hear that I will not—but I will pick out a few of current relevance.

First, I congratulate the new Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards on his appointment. He advises as well as adjudicates on the rules that govern us. I am glad that he has prioritised improving the quality of information in the guidance. I also think it important for the public to know that those rules are there. Given some of the high-profile cases, it is no wonder that the public sometimes think that there are no rules or that nobody is bothering to enforce them. Yes, there are rules; yes, they are being improved; and yes, there is a body of people, led by the commissioner, whose job it is to hold us to them. It is to the merit of the commissioner that he is engaging with so many of us.

I do not think that we have ever had a golden age when everybody thought politicians were completely trustworthy, but people should be able to trust that there is a system around us to hold us to account when we fail. That connects to the work of those in the office of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, as well as to our Domestic Committees and the House services that support them, which I thank.

I also welcome the commitment of the commissioner and his team to work on improving everyone’s understanding, so let me ask the Leader of the House a quick question. Would she support me in ensuring that at least one physical copy of the rules is sent to every MP’s office, and that copies are made readily available in every Vote Office, clearly labelled to show when the code is coming into force and so on? Let us make it easier for everybody—the public, Members and staff—to know what the rules are.

I understand that the Parliamentary Digital Service is hard at work on a new platform to bring accessibility and transparency to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and to make it easily searchable. Clearly we need that—it is long overdue, and I thank PDS for updating me recently on that, and I urge it to press ahead. I welcome the move to bring Members’ interests together in one searchable digital place. I would like some reassurance from the Leader of the House that there will be the opportunity to include gifts and hospitality that Ministers receive on the same register, or to have some method of linking between the two.

I put on record, slightly stretching the debate from parliamentary services, my appreciation for MPs’ staff. That gives me an opportunity to thank all those unsung heroes, and in a personal way, I thank my long-serving office manager, Arthur Girling, who will shortly be leaving my office, after seeing me through Brexit, covid and many more crises. He has served me and the people of Bristol West well, and I am very sad to see him go, but I wish him all the luck in the world in his new role. Thank you for indulging me on that, Mr Deputy Speaker.

The wide range of skills that MPs’ staff use as part of a busy small team is impressive. While we are working here for our constituents on legislation, they are in our constituency offices providing direct assistance and being our frontline, often dealing with complex and heartbreaking situations. It is not on that they have to deal with the brunt of online and actual abuse. It may be directed actually at us, but they take the brunt of it. On that, I draw attention to another parliamentary service, the wellbeing service. I encourage all colleagues to make use of it and to look at how they use their wellbeing budgets to enhance the wellbeing of their staff.

I also thank the Library service and the Vote Office and Table Office staff, who are invaluable in helping us and our staff to serve our constituents. They are our primary service. They need support, and I thank the Members’ Services Team with their HR service, pastoral support and free training for staff and MPs. Again, I encourage colleagues to show our leadership and be proactive in taking up that help, searching out what is available for our staff and ourselves so that we can, as Speaker’s Conference is looking at, be the very best we can at being leaders of our teams.

We are elected to be leaders—and not just political leaders, but team leaders, community leaders and campaign leaders. In order to do that as well as we can, I encourage all colleagues to make use of what is there, but I would also like the Members’ Services Team and the Speaker’s Conference to consider what else the team might do proactively, such as they do when an MP sadly dies in service, where proactive contact is made with MPs’ staff after that tragic occasion. I would like the Members’ Services Team to be considered for other tasks. I know that the survey of the 2019 intake will be useful for informing that.

Several House services have a role in helping us and our staff to feel safe. The introduction of the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme was a mark of great progress, and we are much better than we were when I came into this place, but there is room for improvement. Too many cases take too long, and I know the ICGS knows that, and I have spoken with the current director. I look forward to seeing the recruitment of more investigators helping to speed things up.

I also give a note of appreciation, as well as a challenge, for our magnificent security staff, who put themselves on the line every day to protect us and to allow us to come to work unimpeded by threat. We have lived through many threats over the past few years, including, as the hon. Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Deidre Brock) has mentioned, the murder of two of our colleagues, but I will never forget the ultimate sacrifice made by PC Keith Palmer, killed in the line of duty protecting us on that terrible day in 2017. I encourage all right hon. and hon. Members to remember him when we pass his memorial in Parliament Square. I support the police and security services on the screening and diligence work that they know they have to do and keep doing.

[James Sunderland]

The shadow Leader of the House is making an important speech, and I agree with everything she is saying about security. We are well looked after here as MPs; we have great security, great police and she rightly commended those who look after us. Does she agree, however, that there is work to do on security governance and how we look after MPs—our colleagues—off the estate?

[Thangam Debbonaire]

I do. It is interesting that there is such a degree of concord across the House on this subject. The security is not just for us but for our staff and it is so important, particularly in the light of several recent high-profile cases, whose names I will not mention because I do not want to dignify them. We have a challenge with officers who have served here, though only for a short time. We need to know the greater risk of their serving on the police force, and I think we have had that assurance that our security and police services are working on that. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we need to do much more to make sure that we are doing that off the estate, too.

There are too many services to name them all, but I will try to rattle through them. I encourage everyone to show their appreciation for the staff who go above and beyond by using the STAR staff recognition scheme on the intranet—if any Members are puzzled, they should have a look. I have certainly used it, but probably I could do so more. We should use it to show our appreciation for the security staff, cleaners, Clerks and Doorkeepers. If someone has gone out of their way, please use that.

We have the Governance Office, the Finance team, Select Committee staff, the People and Culture team, the Research and Information team and the House of Commons Library, who I have already mentioned. I have used Speaker’s Counsel many times for advice on points of law. There is Hansard—I see them up there. There was a rueful grin earlier when the hon. Member for Lichfield asked whether anyone actually reads Hansard. Yes, actually. Even if it is just us, we need them to do that. If I want to hold Members and Ministers to account, I need to know what they said. If I am to learn how to improve my speeches, I need to read what I actually said rather than what I scribble down and cannot read.