Grenfell: Government Response

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Monday 10th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. Indeed, when we made the decision to ban combustible cladding, we looked at what other practice was out there and how to standardise in that way. We are consulting on key elements of the new building regulation regime, so that we are in a position to legislate. He is right to talk about learning from experience elsewhere. That is what we are determined to do, so that we see a difference. As Members have said, this is about people’s lives and seeing change happening. It is not about dry reports or doing consultations; it is about seeing change come into effect, and that is what I am resolutely determined to do.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the Secretary of State’s statement, but he made no real or meaningful reference to the means of justice for the Grenfell families and the bereaved. That justice is delivered by two things. The first is the public inquiry. Can he say more about the delays that seem to be dogging the inquiry and the frustrations of the families and their lawyers in participating fully in it? The second is the police investigation. Can the police update us on it, if he cannot? Many here believe that there is culpability, which must one day be found in court.

[James Brokenshire]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a powerful point in his customary way. I know how much he has rightly challenged and been engaged in this issue. He may be aware that Metropolitan Police Service detectives investigating the Grenfell Tower fire have conducted 13 interviews under caution. That provides part of the criminal investigation into the fire, and Scotland Yard says that more interviews are being scheduled. This is clearly an ongoing investigation, with the police examining closely and assembling all relevant evidence, and it is right that we allow it to take its course.

The right hon. Gentleman highlighted the timetable of the public inquiry. It has been announced that the phase 1 report will be delayed until October this year. It is obviously an independent inquiry and process. The extension is to allow the inquiry to look thoroughly at the significant volume of evidence, and to allow time for what is known as a rule 13 process, which requires warning letters to be sent to individuals or organisations who may be subject to criticism. That is the process of the inquiry, which is independent of Government. It is for the inquiry to set out its timeline and needs.

Tower Block Cladding

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Monday 21st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

Like my hon. Friend, I would like the funds to be available quickly. That is why we will be writing out to relevant agencies later this week with further details. This is about prioritising the funding becoming available to relevant housing associations and local government, and we will take action this week.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

I have just come from the Grenfell inquiry, which began this morning. One of the survivors said to me, “If it was thought that combustible cladding was responsible for the fire and it had to come down, why is not banned?” Can the Secretary of State give some timetable on when combustible cladding will finally be banned?

[James Brokenshire]

I understand and hear very clearly the call that has been made. There are certain statutory obligations to consult under the Building Act 1984. That is why I have said that I am minded to make this change, subject to the consultation. My officials are working at pace in relation to getting that consultation out, because I hear the very clear message that the right hon. Gentleman is giving about the urgency of this.

Riot Compensation Bill

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Friday 5th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Immigration (James Brokenshire)]

I, too, want to associate myself with your comments, Mr Speaker, following the sad loss of Harry Harpham. Members throughout the House can all say that Harry was a dedicated public servant. Although we had the privilege of having him in the House only for a short time, he clearly served with distinction in his community, having sat on Sheffield City Council, and he was dedicated to public service. The fact that as recently as 20 January, Harry was here at Prime Minister’s questions standing up for constituents on an issue he believed in, Sheffield Forgemasters, underlines the sort of person he was, the dedication he showed and the fact that he always wanted to stand up for his constituents. The whole House will wish to pass its condolences, thoughts and prayers to his wife, Gill, his children and his whole family, his friends, colleagues and everyone who knew him and who mourns his loss.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) on the manner in which he has sought to advance the Bill. He has clearly reflected on the helpful debates in Committee, to which the Minister for Policing, Crime and Criminal Justice responded. The Committee worked on themes that were started on Second Reading. I believe that my hon. Friend’s amendments are helpful additions and clarifications to the Bill.

Amendment 1 deals with the time limits, which are set at not less than 42 days and 90 days respectively for lodging claims and producing detailed evidence. That is the right approach to the lodging of an initial claim, and then it is right to allow more time for detailed information to be provided. We support placing those minimum requirements in the Bill.

For clarification and for the further assurance of right hon. and hon. Members, I underline that there might be some exceptional circumstances in which more time is required, perhaps when a claimant falls ill and cannot meet the deadlines, when evidence has been destroyed or cannot be accessed owing to riot damage, or when final cost estimates are contingent on other processes such as planning permission or some other regulatory requirements. We expect the regulations sitting alongside the Bill to provide some flexibility in extenuating circumstances and to allow extensions of time, while recognising the framework and the statutory minimums set out in the Bill.

Amendments 2 and 3 deal with payments for alternative accommodation. They will allow compensation to be paid to uninsured individuals whose home has become uninhabitable as a result of a riot, to cover the cost of alternative accommodation. Amendment 3 makes it clear that regulations may provide for further details of considerations to be taken into account when such claims are made, as well as the length of time for which such costs may be covered.

During the passage of the Bill, Members have highlighted a number of cases in which their constituents had suffered significant hardship following the 2011 riots. We have certainly heard that from the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) and the hon. Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed).

[Mr Lammy]

On the issue of constituents who live in private rented accommodation, I recognise that regulations might be the best place to indicate the length of time for which support will be given, but can the Minister provide us with any clarity about whether he considers that to be a matter of weeks or months? People can be living without virtually everything for a considerable length of time after a catastrophe of this sort.

[James Brokenshire]

At this stage, it is probably best for me to say that we will reflect further before we bring forward the regulations. The right hon. Gentleman has made some important points on behalf of his constituents. I know from our discussions back in 2011 the direct impact of the issues that he rightly took up on behalf of his constituents. Other Members also made direct challenges on behalf of their constituents. We will continue to reflect carefully on the issue as we move towards drawing up the regulations. That is the right approach and provides us with an opportunity to reflect further on the important and powerful points that have been made.

It is the Government’s position that consequential losses should not be covered by the Bill, particularly bearing in mind the impact on the public purse. We agree that it would be unfair for legislation intended to help those in the greatest need not to provide support to people who have lost their homes, so we support the proposed exception to the prohibition on compensation for consequential losses to permit individuals to recover the additional costs of alternative accommodation following a riot.

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[James Brokenshire]

A £1 million cap strikes the appropriate balance between protecting the public purse and helping those who need it most. Increasing it to £10 million would increase police and public purse liability tenfold, which is neither necessary nor appropriate. If the cap were raised to £10 million, the most likely beneficiaries would be insurance companies seeking to reclaim the costs of any very large claim from the relevant police and crime commissioner. I do not think that that was the intent behind the right hon. Gentleman’s approach in his amendment, but I respect the manner in which he has sought to draw the House’s attention to how we have reached this point and why we judge that £1 million is the appropriate level.

The right hon. Gentleman has proposed, as an alternative, that there should be regulations following a public consultation, with reviews taking place every three years. As I said, we believe that there is a compelling reason for having a cap in place. There are benefits that attach to having certainty on the level of the cap, with it being clearly defined, rather than perhaps having further uncertainty in the future as to what it might be. Leaving it to be set by regulations after a public consultation would serve only to remove certainty and increase bureaucratic burdens. A public consultation would achieve very little, given that 99% of claimants would have been paid in full from August 2011.

[Mr Lammy]

As this Bill and its consequences are a matter of public record, will the Minister undertake to write to hon. Members who have one of the six businesses beyond the Sony claim in their constituencies? I would certainly like to know whether there were any businesses in Tottenham that experienced a claim of more than £1 million, and the nature of those businesses. That would be helpful for the record as we move forward.

[James Brokenshire]

I do not know whether I am able to give the right hon. Gentleman the assurance he seeks, on the basis of legal constraints or data protection issues, but I note his point. I will reflect on it, and if there is anything more that I may be able to add, then I will obviously be happy to write to him. However, I draw the House’s attention to the fact that this might not be quite as straightforward as he suggests and there may be inhibitions that would prevent that sort of broader disclosure.

The Bill already provides for the power to amend the compensation cap through regulation should it be necessary to adjust it to reflect inflation. It would be a relatively simple task to examine cost of living and property price changes in the period since the cap was last set and apply any change to its level before making compensation payments.

In Committee and again today, the right hon. Gentleman raised the issue of regional variations that might affect the cap. The £1 million cap was determined using claims information from the London riots in 2011. One could say, therefore, that the analysis was conducted on claims from one of the most destructive riots in a generation in one of the most costly regions in which to live. It was a very serious example and the right benchmark. On that basis, the cap would not only adequately cover Londoners in the event of a future riot, but more than adequately cover those in other regions. That is the approach we have taken. I reiterate that according to our analysis and that of the Association of British Insurers, had the £1 million cap been in place for the August 2011 riots, then 99% of claims would still have been paid in full.

I hope that in the light of those comments the right hon. Gentleman will be minded to withdraw his amendment.

[Mr Lammy]

As I indicated, these are probing amendments. The whole House has heard what the Minister and the hon. Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) said, and I understand that the Bill will now go to the other place and receive further scrutiny. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendments made: 2, page 5, line 23, at end insert

“, except in the circumstances described in subsection (2A).

‘(2A) Where a claimant’s home is rendered uninhabitable, the amount of compensation may reflect costs that the claimant incurs as a result of needing alternative accommodation.”

Amendment 3, page 5, line 26, at end insert—

‘( ) considerations that decision-makers must take into account in deciding the amount of compensation payable as a result of a claimant needing alternative accommodation (and the regulations may include provision limiting the amount of time for which the costs of alternative accommodation may be claimed),”—(Mike Wood.)

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[James Brokenshire]

The hon. Lady makes a fair point. I am sure that anyone who has been caught up in a riot, and who has suffered loss or damage as a consequence, feels that hugely keenly. We are talking not just about the immediacy of the situation and the fear that it creates, but about what that means in restoring a life, putting property back into place and dealing with adverse effects on a business. That has been at the heart of our debates on the Bill, and that is why I welcome and strongly endorse the approach of my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South in bringing forward the Bill and seeking to address the problem.

There are a couple of points that I would make. First, the Bill has been drafted in a manner that allows greater latitude than the Victorian legislation. I return to the point about not requiring primary legislation. Dealing with things in secondary legislation gives greater latitude and flexibility to make changes to the regulatory framework more swiftly. That reflects the fact that other items may need to be covered, or the cap may no longer be appropriate. The Bill provides a real benefit in offering that level of flexibility.

Secondly, the hon. Lady made a point about individual occurrences and events, and she pointed to some serious incidents that might have made a review appropriate. The latitude provided by the Bill lends itself well to that, because it will not be necessary completely to recast primary legislation. Some riotous disturbances may not lead to a significant number of claims, so it might not be appropriate to trigger a formal procedure such as that proposed in the amendment. The student riots in 2010, for example, involved significant policing challenges but attracted fewer than five compensation claims. We have the ability to carry out such a review, but we do not need anything with quite such a rigid structure. I suggest to the House that the Bill gives the Government the flexibility and the latitude that they need. In that context, I hope that the right hon. Member for Tottenham will be minded to withdraw his amendment.

[Mr Lammy]

The shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), has expressed my views strongly from the Dispatch Box, and I hope that the matter will receive greater scrutiny in another place. Self-evidently, issues arise in the peculiar event of riots, and the Government ought to think seriously about producing some sort of impact assessment, which need not be onerous. I undertake to write to colleagues in the other place to ensure that that receives further examination.

As I have listened, not to myself but to my hon. Friend, I have been convinced of my own argument. Nevertheless, I will not press the amendment to a Division. This is an important Bill, and it must find its way to the other place. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Third Reading

Riot Compensation Bill

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Friday 4th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

The hon. Gentleman is right, of course. The riot claims bureau will be a step forward, but let us be absolutely clear about it. It sounds good, does it not, the riot claims bureau? We get the sense of bureaucrats hard at work somewhere in the Home Office as we speak. No one is staffing the riot claims bureau as a result of the Bill; I suspect it will be brought together rapidly in the event of a riot.

It is important to ensure that the expertise and knowledge are present, that there have been practice exercises and that there is understanding of the sorts of communities that experience such things. There must be a sense that we must put small businesses first on these occasions, because often the big businesses can defend themselves. Members might remember from the riots the atrocious behaviour of the head of JD Sports, who said that it was great that people were breaking down windows to grab trainers because it showed how important his products were. I would suggest that that chief executive can defend himself, but he was in a very different position from those on the high street.

I pay tribute to Sir Bill Castell, chair of the Wellcome Trust and one of the great industrialists of our country. He was chair of the High Street Fund, which did so much to support small businesses across the country. I will never forget Sir Bill ringing me up just a day after the riots, determined to make a difference and to bring big business together to support small business and to bring those funds to individuals. I will also not forget Bill’s consternation that months later funds had not been paid out under the Riot (Damages) Act and that when those funds were paid out, despite the fact that the High Street Fund was a charity relying on contributions from big business, they were discounted against that money. I say to the hon. Member for Dudley South, will we see that happen again?

In these circumstances, when there is philanthropy and charity and when human beings come on side and say that they will support somebody, that should not be discounted against the obligations of the state. We should not be saying that it is for charity to pick up the tab and reduce the burden that we all face as taxpayers when consents break down in this way. I know that Sir Bill felt very strongly about that and I hope that we might get an answer about what will happen in the future in this regard.

I come back to the point about the expertise. Will the bureau have the expertise? How many people will staff it? How will it be brought together? How will it be different from the patchy performance we have seen? For example, I understand that the police in Manchester performed quickly and were able to pay out quickly, although they had a smaller group of businesses involved, whereas the Met were woefully slow in paying out. That led to the then Leader of the Opposition coming to the Dispatch Box during Prime Minister’s questions and asking when businesses would receive their funds. He did that well over a year after the riots—the Met’s performance was that poor. It is important to understand what the bureau will look like and to make sure that it is not just a fancy name, but will work effectively.

I come to the role of loss adjusters. The hon. Gentleman is right that new-for-old compensation will mitigate some of the insensitivity that so many business owners said they experienced as they were quizzed about the age of their products, whether they were sure those products were in the premises, where they were in the building, why they could not get into the building, why their English was not good enough to fill in a form, and so on. I hope new for old will lead to a better system.

In these circumstances there should be a loss of earnings component. If we were able to pay out relatively quickly, the loss of earnings component would be reduced, which was not the case last time round when the process was so poorly handled. Many of us may not be here for the next set of riots in our country. I hope we are not here—I hope it is that far away—but if the claims process goes on for a long time, there is a terrible loss of earnings for small businesses. I can think of a wonderful mechanic’s business that was burned to the ground. It sat next to the iconic Union building in Tottenham that was also burned to the ground. I think of the wonderful Cypriot owner. He came to see me, devastated by the flooding and destruction of his family business. The road was shut off, the building next to it had been burned down and it was months before he could get into his business premises. He had a heart attack. He was laid low at home, panicking about the pressure of finance and money. I will remember that man and his family for the rest of my life. So I believe that loss of earnings should be a component of the compensation. Consequential earnings are also fundamental when the state breaks down in this way.

The cap of £1 million is right and totally understandable. It is important, though, that that cap is sufficiently high to compensate the vast majority of businesses. I think that that probably is the case, but I would like reassurance that it is index-linked and will rise. It is £1 million today, but what will it be in 50 years or 100 years? In areas of the country that are fragile, where there is deprivation or pockets of deprivation, we must not scare big business away because it fears that it would not be adequately compensated in the event of a riot. We must not do what has happened in other parts of the world, particularly the United States. It is important that private insurance is available for larger businesses for which, if they were to suffer a loss, it would be substantially more than £1 million.

It is easy to see how a relatively small business with stock could lose more than £1 million over several months in the circumstances. I am a little bit nervous about what the effect of the cap may be and whether it will harm regeneration and the prospect of those communities moving forward towards prosperity through regeneration. On the whole, people do not tend to riot if they have a job and a mortgage, but in parts of the country that cannot always be guaranteed, so it is important that big business is there, small business is supported, the £1 million cap is not too low, and that we are sure the insurance industry will provide support beyond that £1 million.

We need to be clear that under-insurance is common in the kind of communities that saw rioting in 2011 and communities where riots have historically taken place in this country. Because of the delicate margins with which businesses operate in such communities, there is often under-insurance. It was the people who were under-insured who paid the heaviest price last time round. They were able to claim from the High Street Fund, but that was discounted down the line. They were the ones who found it hardest to get payments under the Riot (Damages) Act in good time.

The 42 days feels like a long period. People know the riot has happened to them. They must know that there is some means of compensation. People say that on the news, but it does not reach them because they are in shock, because everything they own has been burned to the ground, and they have no paperwork, they have no ID, they do not know who they are. This is not just about shops; it is about homes as well. I am worried about the 42-day period. I can think of many constituents who would not meet that.

[The Minister for Immigration (James Brokenshire)]

It might help the right hon. Gentleman to know that if the Bill were to pass, that would be dealt with in regulations. Our intention is that the 42 days would be a notification period—a time for people to give notice that they were going to make a claim—but there would a further 90-day period to quantify that claim and provide further details. I hope I can offer him some reassurance that we are thinking carefully about lessons from 2011 and about time periods that will allow people to gather paperwork and quantify the amounts that they are claiming for.

[Mr Lammy]

I am grateful for that indication. My hon. Friend the Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) on the Opposition Front Bench also has the kind of constituency where I am sure she would recognise that, in our multicultural London, many businesses are run by people who speak English as a second language and who, in times of riots, are a long way from the state. That is because they do not rely on the state very much at all. Even notifying their intention to make a claim is not something that they would understand. Many of my constituents did not understand that they could make a claim. They simply sat with their head in their hands, under-insured and not aware that the state would support them in this way. They got to the understanding that they could make a claim because word about the High Street Fund spread quickly among the businesses alongside theirs. That was how they started to realise that they, too, could make a claim. I am grateful that the Minister has indicated some flexibility on that, but I wanted to stress my concerns that people might be caught out of the system.

I broadly welcome what has been said today, with some reservations about the nature of the bureau and the expertise that it will need, and real concern that we should understand the sort of areas that can experience riots in our country and why it is important that, as a nation, we support those communities.

There is a potential conflict between the Met declaring a riot and the fact that the budget comes from the declarer. I hope that the Minister will say a little more about the circumstances in which a riot is declared, because in 2011 the situation was so patently clear that it would have been very hard for the Met not to declare a riot, but that is not always the case. I remember just a few hours into the rioting the former Member for Holborn and St Pancras said to me, “Watch and see if it actually declares this to be a riot.” I would therefore like some reassurance about the circumstances in which a riot is declared, because that could be a source of contention.

When the London Assembly looked into the 2011 riots, it came to the view that the police were handling the situation so badly that the money ought to be in the local authority’s pot. There is some merit in that, because local authorities are much closer to local businesses and can liaise very intently with Government. The money is coming from the Treasury anyway—let us be clear about that—but how it works within Government is the big question. I had sympathy with the London Assembly’s view, although I think that it is important that the police understand that consent must not break down and that, if it does, it comes from their budget stream. There is a discussion to be had about that potential conflict. The Bill is settled on the money coming from the police. It is therefore important to understand the moment at which a riot is declared and how that decision is reached.

There was a sense in those early months that the Met was losing money as a consequence of having to give money out—that there was no extra money from the Treasury. We need our most deprived communities to be policed; we do not want all the money available to go to compensation. That is a complexity in the Bill that I think requires further explanation.

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[The Minister for Immigration (James Brokenshire)]

I thank hon. Members from both sides of the House for an informative and passionate debate that has reflected the interests of their constituents on the issue of riot compensation. I particularly commend my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) for his hard work, his approach in bringing the Bill before the House, and the way that he has sought to conduct this morning’s debate. He has achieved consensus on the need to move forward and the need for change, and I know how hard that can be. He stated that as a new Member, he has become popular ever since he was successful in the ballot to introduce a private Member’s Bill, but given how he has conducted himself thus far, I suspect that he will remain very popular in future, and I commend him for that.

I have listened to the speeches made during this debate, and there is no doubt that the 2011 riots remain fresh in the minds of many. As my hon. Friend said, it is important that we respond effectively and promptly to those whose lives have been wrecked as a consequence of the riots. I share his hope that this Bill will never be used, but it is right that we prepare for such eventualities and learn the lessons of the past to meet the potential challenges of the future. The Government acknowledge that payment of riot compensation in the aftermath of August 2011 was not as streamlined as it could have been, first because processes had to be put in place at short notice, and secondly because decision makers were required to work with a piece of legislation that is almost 130 years old.

We may not have “riotous” assembly in this House—we certainly do not—but we might have “tumultuous” assembly. The sense that that terminology may remain—and indeed was—relevant when claims were being considered after the August 2011 riots, underlines the need for us to improve and modernise the way that we approach the payment of compensation to individuals and businesses who experience losses or damage to property caused by riots. I therefore commend the hon. Members for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq) and for West Ham (Lyn Brown), the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), and my hon. Friends the Members for Torbay (Kevin Foster), for Solihull (Julian Knight), and for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), who broadly welcomed the need to move forward on this issue.

[Mr Lammy]

The Minister may recall the former Member for Croydon North, Malcolm Wicks, who is no longer with us. He made an important contribution to the Croydon community immediately after the riots.

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[James Brokenshire]

My hon. Friend rightly makes a point about the need for certainty and clarity, and that is precisely what the Bill provides. Clause 1(6) seeks to achieve that by reference to the 1986 Act, and it is right to provide the sense of certainty outlined by my hon. Friend. The right hon. Member for Tottenham and my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North mentioned the need to inform the public about this issue, and if the Bill is enacted we would produce guidance to inform the public about the process and entitlements in the Bill, and subsequent regulations.

There has been some debate about why the Bill seeks to set the cap at £1 million. Alternative proposals were considered, but I think my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South has captured well the analysis that informed his thinking, which I know is based on research. Such a cap would have dealt with around 99% of claims made after the 2011 riots. We have also discussed the fact that the Bill does not provide cover for consequential loss. The independent reviewer thoroughly considered that issue when considering recommendations, but believed that that would be a step too far in a Government scheme. We agree with that analysis, particularly given the potential impact on the public purse, which is likely to run to tens of millions of pounds. The Bill is not intended as a catch-all, but it was right to raise the issue of its inter-relationship with insurance. This is intended as a safety net, not as an alternative to insurance provision.

We have touched on how the Bill would seek to cover motor vehicles—an issue that, as we have heard, could not have been captured by the original 1886 Act. Again, the cover is not intended to replace insurance, and any claims would be checked to ensure that the vehicle was maintained in full compliance with the law. My hon. Friend has struck the right balance in bringing forward those provisions.

The Bill would also make provision for a riot claims bureau. It is not intended for a bureau to be in place for every instance of rioting—for example, it would not be efficient to make such arrangements where a small-scale disturbance occurred that was perhaps confined to one force area. Experience has highlighted the approach that should be taken to allow for a speedier, more efficient and effective response. The Bill provides for that flexibility, as well as allowing for further regulation.

The right hon. Member for Tottenham talked about how the arrangements would differ from those in the past. If the Bill were to proceed, our approach would be to create regulations setting out the detail of the bureau. The Home Office has had discussions with the insurance industry, police and loss adjusters, and I anticipate that there would be a management board made up of relevant experts, overseeing contracted loss adjusters who would have the capability and capacity to respond quickly. Again, that reflects some of the lessons we have learned.

[Mr Lammy]

I am grateful for that reassurance. The management board sounds very sensible. There has been some suggestion from the Home Office that some of the expertise that existed following the Bradford and Oldham riots in 2001 has been lost. Might there be a mechanism to contact staff with previous experience of riots—or indeed of floods, after which similar issues come up—so that their expertise can be drawn on quickly?

[James Brokenshire]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting and fair point. Should the Bill proceed, there will be an opportunity to reflect on such experience when we form the regulations that will set out the structure of the bureau. I hope that we will be able to learn the lessons not only from 2011 but from other times when compensation has been paid. The parallel that he draws with a flooding incident is important.

We believe that the structure of primary police liability, albeit that it was set out in 1886, remains valid. When the police fail to prevent the breakdown of law and order in such a way that a riot occurs, we judge that they should provide compensation to those who have suffered financial loss through no fault of their own. I have sympathy with the arguments that have been made about that strict liability approach, but the independent reviewer came to the same conclusion after much consideration and discussion with police and other stakeholders.

The Bill will bring much-needed reform by ensuring that after future riots, there will be modern, transparent and fair arrangements for individuals and businesses that have experienced losses through no fault of their own. Important points have been made today about payment arrangements, including points about charity payments by the hon. Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed) in an intervention and by the right hon. Member for Tottenham and my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay in their speeches. It is our intention that charitable donations should not be deducted from compensation, but that formal aid such as that funded by local government should be. I think that clarity can be provided.

The hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton talked about the police marking their own homework, and other Members developed that theme. We expect claims, other than those of relatively low value, to be subject to a loss adjustment-type process, as most insurance claims are. I also underline that clause 9 provides for a reviews and appeals mechanism, which gives an important assurance about how claims will be addressed.

My hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris) rightly focused on small business, and he asked whether mobile businesses might be covered. That is an interesting question that may be worthy of further development in Committee. Members also mentioned the compensation cap, and as we have heard, there is provision for it to be extended. Any legislation requires regular Government assessment, and there are processes in place for that, which I hope will allow for reflection on the level of the cap. I am sure that that point, too, will be subject to further examination in Committee.

Several of the proposals in the Bill will make compensation arrangements more generous. The way compensation has been paid in the past has created hardship for some vulnerable people and businesses, and it is right to ensure that those in the greatest need can recover more easily from the impact of riots. We are mindful of our responsibilities to protect public money, and the proposals to limit payments to large businesses and to apply excesses to compensation will help balance out the impact of increased compensation.

Ultimately, however, the purpose of the Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South is to protect vulnerable people from hardship. The current provisions may have been suitable to provide for the living standards of Victorian Britain, but they do not reflect the needs of our modern society. That is why I agree with him about the need for change. I commend him again for bringing the Bill before the House. In the light of today’s debate and the clear need for reform, I hope that the House will not just commend him but give his Bill a Second Reading.

Student Visas

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

My right hon. Friend underlines again the need for the Government to continue to focus on the problems that we were left by the previous Government. Their lack of appreciation of the scale of what they handed on is striking. He makes some important points about the some of the detailed applications and courses. I will, of course, look at any representations that he may wish to make on the nature of the points that he has raised, particularly in medicine.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

UK universities contribute 2.8% to our GDP. The last time we had concerns about student visas, just one university in London was involved. This involves many colleges and universities. How long will this continue? As it continues, students from countries around the world who are contemplating coming to England will decide to go elsewhere. The Minister mentions hundreds of visits: 48,000 people are out there who should not be. Can he give us some time scales, please?

[James Brokenshire]

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s knowledge of the university sector. This will take time to work through on the evidence and information available. It is right that meticulous work is conducted by our immigration enforcement officers to pursue their leads and lines of inquiry, where students who have relied on bogus certificates have sought to go on to university or college studies. I should like to reassure him of the Government’s commitment to supporting the whole universities sector. Indeed, I have had conversations with Universities UK and the Russell Group more generally on the excellent work that many of our universities do. They are world leading, and we should be proud of what they achieve and their ability to attract genuine students from overseas. We support that, but clearly we will rigorously focus on the abuse. I will certainly provide regular updates to the House on progress with the work to remove students and on further information that we may receive from ETS, as it continues to analyse its results from other centres.

Stephen Lawrence

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Tuesday 24th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

I certainly pay tribute to the work of the Lawrence family. As I think I said in my opening response, I am sure that if it were not for their tireless fight for justice, we would not have seen the convictions that we have. I do not want to speculate on what the response may be once we see the outcome of the response from the Metropolitan Police Service. However, let me say to my right hon. Friend that the Government take the issue of corruption in the police service extremely seriously. That is why we have established the Leveson inquiry, why the Home Secretary commissioned the Independent Police Complaints Commission to provide a report on corruption in the police service, and why she commissioned Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary to consider instances of undue influence, inappropriate arrangements and other abuses of power in police relationships.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

Will the Minister update the House on investigations involving the other defendants in the original trial? Will he also say why the Home Secretary has such confidence in an internal review given all that has happened in the Met in relation to allegations of corruption, and why in this case it is not thought that the IPCC should be engaged in any review?

[James Brokenshire]

In response to the right hon. Gentleman’s first question, what I can say is that the police have been very clear that investigations in relation to this matter continue, and it is right and proper that all appropriate lines of inquiry are followed through. I say in response to his second question that I think it is appropriate for the Metropolitan Police Service to be able to look at this matter and provide a response, and then for the Home Secretary to determine what the next steps should be.

Youth Violence (London)

Debate between James Brokenshire and David Lammy

Thursday 16th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and it is one reason we are considering issues of early intervention and prevention, and the focus on preventing young people from reaching the criminal justice system. I have characterised it in the past as conveyor belt crime. By focusing on early intervention, we can make a difference. For example, that is why we will take Sure Start back to its original purpose, which was early intervention, increasing its focus on the neediest families and better involving organisations with a track record of supporting families.

I noted contributions made on both sides of the House about the issue of family. For me, one of the most powerful statistics that has struck me over the past few years is that young people in this country spend more time with their peers than with their families than in any other European country.

That issue—cohesion, the role of the family and the support that lies behind that—is an important one that we need to focus on. I am therefore pleased that the issue of family has been focused on in this debate. In that context, I want to pay tribute to those families who have been tragically touched by such appalling incidents. I am always humbled and inspired by the parents, brothers and sisters who have sadly lost loved ones, and by how they are making an enormous contribution by seeking to make a difference and change our society in so many ways, so that it becomes that much safer.

I also want to pay tribute to the work of the Metropolitan Police Service in tackling youth violence in London. Just one example of that is Operation Blunt 2. For more than two years, this dedicated team has been targeting stop-and-search powers to take weapons off our streets. Since April this year alone, it has carried out 55,759 searches and 5,629 weapons sweeps, and seized 591 weapons. In order to ensure that stop-and-search has strong community support, the team has also been engaged with the communities affected by youth violence, who have welcomed this engagement and the significant resources going into keeping them safe.

The Metropolitan police also leads Operation Trident, which is aimed at gun crime, particularly—but not exclusively—where both the victims and suspects are from black communities. The work is developed with community members and independent advisers, because the Metropolitan police understands that communities are a part of the solution to these challenging problems. During 2009-10, Operation Trident seized a third more lethally-barrelled firearms—a total of 104—than in the previous year, and disrupted 75 criminal networks.

[Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)]

There is some concern about the use of the phrase “black-on-black violence”, which has been attached to Operation Trident, and a desire to review that in the light of the complexity of backgrounds of inner-city youth in London. Can the hon. Gentleman confirm whether a decision has been made by Boris—the Mayor of London—to cut the marketing budget of Operation Trident? It is important that we should be able to communicate with the young people of London in order to deflect them from crime, so can the Minister comment on whether that is, in fact, true?

[James Brokenshire]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the complexity of the problems surrounding this difficult issue. I am afraid that I cannot give him a direct answer to the specific point that he raises about any decision that the Mayor may or may not have made on Operation Trident. However, I should be happy to make inquiries and, as required, write to him if that would be of assistance to him. What I can tell him is that the Mayor of London has recently appointed an expert advisory group made up of members of the black communities to support him on a number of those complex issues. The information I have is that the Mayor remains focused on the issue, recognising the difficulties, challenges and complexities that many hon. Members have highlighted in this debate.

There is much more work being led by the Metropolitan police and partners in London. A new anti-violence board brings together partners in the police, health, education, offender management and the community, along with parents. It will focus on the most dangerous offenders, hot-spot locations and protecting the most vulnerable victims. In addition, this year the Home Office is providing £700,000 to tackle youth violence in the capital. Lambeth, in the constituency of the hon. Member for Streatham, is one area benefiting from that funding.

I also want to highlight the Mayor’s “Time for Action” programme, which recognises that to reduce youth violence we must ensure that young Londoners are a valued part of their communities and that they can contribute in meaningful ways. The programme focuses on: for the first time, giving young offenders in custody the tools to get them into work; tackling truancy; supporting young people in care to go to university; promoting sport; working with uniformed organisations to help build young peoples’ character; and sharing good practice.

I would particularly like to acknowledge the Mayor’s work to encourage the mentoring of at-risk black boys in Lambeth and other boroughs. The issue of young black men being disproportionately at risk of being victims and offenders is a challenging one—a fact that has rightly been brought to our attention in the debate tonight—and I certainly support all the initiatives that show a determination to take this on.

So there is an impressive array of work going on in the capital aimed at keeping young people safe. I hope that all hon. Members will join me in extending thanks to all those in London—the police, the Mayor, local authorities, community leaders and those in the local communities—who have worked so hard to contribute to this difficult work. Some of those excellent projects are currently being visited by Brooke Kinsella, whose brother Ben was tragically murdered in London two years ago. The Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have asked Brooke to head up a fact-finding mission to assess the work going on across the country to tackle youth violence. I am very pleased to have her working with us, but sorry that it was the loss of her brother that drew her into this work.

Brooke is visiting projects in London and across the country that are working to prevent young people from getting pulled into a world of violence. I know that she has visited some of the good work that is under way in the constituency of the hon. Member for Streatham, and seen a great deal of dedicated voluntary and community sector work with young people. Her findings will be presented to the Home Secretary later this year, to help to shape the Government’s work in tackling serious violence among young people.

I would like to take this opportunity to place on record the Government’s appreciation of Ms Kinsella’s dedication. I know that the projects she has visited have appreciated her time and support for their work to protect young people, and that she has been inspired by some of the excellent and varied work being led by local communities up and down the country. Some of those projects have been funded through the Home Office community fund, which, since 2009, has provided 144 small community organisations with £10,000 each per year to stop young people committing violence. I know that funding is always an issue, and in the current financial climate, that will continue to be the case. However, I know that Brooke has been very impressed at the work being undertaken, often with minimal funding but always with a great deal of commitment, hard work and community good will.