EU Draft Budget 2017

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and David Gauke

Monday 31st October 2016 General Committees

[Mr Gauke]

I fear that the hon. Gentleman wants to take me down a path that is a little way away from the motion in front of us. We are in new circumstances. The determination of the Government is to ensure that we deliver the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations with the European Union and in our relationship with the EU and other parts of the world, post-Brexit. That is our focus.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I was going to sit quietly for once, but the questioning has gone along a certain line. May I remind the Chief Secretary to the Treasury that the Chancellor, in front of the Treasury Committee, said that the reports before 23 June no longer applied, because their assumptions were out of date already? We therefore do not have to work on the maxim of gloom and nonsense that came from the Treasury at that point, and can look to the broad sunlit uplands. One thing we can be certain of is that once we leave, we will no longer have to pay into the budget, will not be part of the multiannual financial framework, and will not have to have these debates any more.

EU general budgets for 2015 and 2016

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and David Gauke

Monday 14th September 2015 General Committees

[Mr Gauke]

May I put it on record that I am grateful to see the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South in her place? I hope we can continue to debate this and other matters in future. I am also delighted to see the hon. Member for Scunthorpe in his place, and I hope we will continue to debate Treasury matters.

First, in terms of our position on the EU solidarity fund, the Government support the objectives and principles of the fund in providing assistance to member states affected by serious natural disasters. However, the Government also take the view that the Commission should always look first to reallocate funds from within existing agreed budgets to meet in-year pressures, rather than coming to member states to request additional money. Past examples show that the Commission is able to find reallocations—for example, when programmes are delayed or take-up is slower than expected.

In terms of the budget more widely and the need to prioritise areas relating to jobs and growth, the Government’s record is clear. As I made clear in my opening remarks, the best way to put pressure on inefficient spending is to cap the overall expenditure. The deal negotiated by the Prime Minister in February 2013 was the first real-terms reduction in the EU budget, and such budgetary restraint is very important. As the Prime Minister said at the time, EU spending reform is a long-term project, but the deal that he secured represents important progress, including on common agricultural policy expenditure. While spending on CAP was cut by 13%, spending on areas of pro-growth expenditure increased and now accounts for 13% rather than 9% of the overall budget.

It is also worth mentioning wider budgetary reform. The UK welcomes the objectives of Vice-President Georgieva’s “budget for results” initiative, which aims to develop a more performance-orientated budget that delivers tangible results for EU citizens. We are working closely with the Commission on that and see it as an important opportunity to help improve the value and efficiency of EU spending and to increase transparency about it for taxpayers. The Chancellor made our position clear at ECOFIN earlier in the year. We have held discussions with the Commission and offered technical assistance, and we are keen to drive this agenda forward.

On migration funding and our response to the crisis, the UK is of the view that a great impact can be made in conflict regions, which is why we are the second largest bilateral donor to the Syrian relief effort. We will continue with our significant efforts to ease the burden on front-line member states by providing practical, on-the-ground support. In line with the Prime Minister’s announcements, we will also take forward plans to resettle up to 20,000 Syrian refugees over the course of this Parliament.

With regard to funding of Frontex, to which we contribute not via the EU budget but through a separate bilateral contribution, we will match increased EU funding as proposed under draft amended budget 5. I hope those points are helpful to the Committee, and I will be happy to answer any further questions.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

May I say, Mr Walker, what a great pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship for the first occasion in this Parliament? I did so many times in the previous Parliament when you were chairing, with great élan, the Procedure Committee.

To begin with, what are the Minister’s expectations for our rebate? It has gone up this year, which is good news, but last year we obviously had the problem of suddenly discovering that we owed the EU a great deal more money. Does he think that that will be a recurring problem or will the good news on the rebate be the more important part?

[Mr Gauke]

In terms of the rebate and the surcharge, which, as my hon. Friend rightly pointed out, emerged last year, the first point is that he is right that the rebate has increased. The effect of that is that the net additional contribution, as a consequence of revisions to our gross national income, has fallen by something in the region of €100 million. It is worth saying that the draft amending budget before us confirms this; that is an important point. On the wider question of whether we are likely to see any repeat of what happened last year, it is worth remembering the negotiation achievements that were reached last year by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, ensuring that no country is bounced into having an additional liability in the way that occurred last time.

When it comes to the revisions of GNI that have an impact on the calculation of contributions of member states, as far as the UK—or, indeed, any member state—is concerned, until all revisions have been done by all member states, it is not possible to make an assessment of precisely what additional sum is likely to be made.

Finally on this topic, let me make it perfectly clear that under this Government the UK rebate is safe. The rebate will continue to be calculated on an unchanged basis. There was no change to the formula and no change to the types of EU expenditure that we get a rebate on. The UK abatement remains fully justified due to continuing expenditure distortions in the EU budget; it is simply a matter of fairness. In terms of the surcharge issue, which is a separate but related one, we cannot yet say whether the UK will make a payment or receive a repayment from the EU later in the year until all calculations have been completed.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Minister said that the external aid budget will go up by 22%. Do our contributions to it that go through the European Union but are not co-funding operations with the European Union count towards our 0.7% target for overseas aid?

[Mr Gauke]

Perhaps the safest thing I could do is write to the Committee.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I do have another question, and the Minister might get inspiration.

[Mr Gauke]

I may get inspiration on that point and I am always anxious to hear subsequent questions from my hon. Friend.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Very often in these European debates on the budget, we look at the smaller issues, but subheadings 1 and 2—economic, social and territorial cohesion, and sustainable growth and natural resources—cover about €111 billion of expenditure. Those terms seem to be vague and woolly. Will the Minister give us some more guidance as to where the money really goes? What is economic, social and territorial cohesion, other than building a fence in Hungary? What is sustainable growth and natural resources? I do not think that we are not doing a lot of mining in the European Union.

[Mr Gauke]

On my hon. Friend’s previous question, I can confirm that the contribution to the EU budget that is spent on overseas aid is included in our 0.7% official development assistance target. I am pleased to be able to provide that clarification.

My hon. Friend makes a wider point about the vagueness of the definitions, but that is perhaps not unique to the European Union. Whether descriptions relate to UK expenditure or various UN conventions and expenditure, they are not always as clear as they might be. There have been issues in trying to explain to the general public how we spend money within the UK, and such terms can be a little vague. I support my hon. Friend’s enthusiasm for greater transparency in this area. The Government introduced UK taxpayers to tax summaries setting out where expenditure goes so that they can be better informed about how public money is spent.

On the EU budget headings, my hon. Friend referred to sustainable growth. This includes common agricultural policy pillar two spending, which focuses on rural development that is environmentally sustainable. That is part of heading 2 spend. The EU budget spend contributes to financing through various programmes. For example, Horizon 2020, which I touched on earlier, is perhaps one of the less controversial areas of EU expenditure, as are cohesion funds for sustainable development within the EU.

I hope that I have provided some information for my hon. Friend about the relevant headings, but if he would like more, I am happy to set that out.

European Union (Finance) Bill

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and David Gauke

Thursday 11th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

Part of the calculation of member states’ contributions is based on the size of their economy. That means that bigger economies pay more and smaller ones pay less. As an economy becomes relatively bigger, it makes a bigger contribution. That is the factual situation; that is how it works.

I referred earlier to the corrections and the small reductions in the contributions from Denmark and Austria. The UK has always supported the principle of budgetary corrections set out at the 1984 Fontainebleau European Council, which gave us our rebate. In the absence of any meaningful reform on the expenditure side of the budget, we believe that those member states that make disproportionately large net contributions to the budget in relation to their prosperity, such as the UK, should receive corrections.

[Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

Further to the point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood), will the Minister explain whether there has been any change as a result of the recalculation of gross national income as the European Union has moved from the European system of accounts known as ESA95 to the later ESA2010, which I believe includes more of the black market? Has that move had the effect of making our economy bigger?

[Mr Gauke]

That is not a matter that is related to the Bill. The own resources decision uses the same formula for this financial framework as it did for the previous one. The revisions to GNI to which my hon. Friend refers are a separate matter. The element relating to the hidden economy has on occasions been somewhat overstated in this debate, but yes, there was a correction of our GNI estimates and that did require an additional sum. He will be aware of how this Government negotiated to ensure that we did not have to pay that sum up front—we were given much more time—and that the rebate applied to it.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify that this own resources decision is based on ESA95, as the last one was, rather than on ESA2010, which has been adopted for other purposes.

[Mr Gauke]

The own resources decision—the ORD—contains an element that is based on GNI. There may be different ways of calculating the GNI as it is updated. This is not related to the Bill, however. The formula remains essentially the same, and the element that comes from GNI has not changed, although there may be changes to the way in which the GNI works. Indeed, there are changes on an annual basis, because there are revisions to the number.

This new ORD requires the approval of each member state, in accordance with their own constitutional requirements, before it can come into force. The Bill will therefore give UK approval to the Council decision. The passing of the Bill will be the final action necessary in delivering the deal secured by the Prime Minister in 2013. As a result of the deal, EU spending was cut in real terms and UK contributions are forecast to be lower in every year compared with the final year of the Government’s seven-year deal, by on average around £1.3 billion. In addition, our rebate, which is worth around £5 billion per year, is protected. This agreement is in our national interest. It represents a good deal for the taxpayer now and over the coming years.

I would like to draw the House’s attention to what the Prime Minister said in 2013. After the EU budget negotiations, he said:

“Working with allies, we took real steps towards reform in the European Union.”—[Official Report, 11 February 2013; Vol. 558, c. 571.]

Hon. Members will need no reminding that reforming the European Union is one of the key objectives of this Government. The Prime Minister has already had constructive talks with EU leaders on how best to address the UK’s concerns about how the EU is run. These concerns are not unique to the UK. Many in Europe agree with us that the EU is too uncompetitive, too democratically unaccountable and too inflexible to the concerns of citizens in its member states. They agree with us that reform is needed, and the Prime Minister, in turn, is confident that he can and will succeed in negotiating to reform the European Union and our relationship with it.

In February 2013, we saw the positive results of working with partners to achieve real change in Europe. We saw what can be done when we are tough, positive and determined in negotiations with our European partners. Our vision of an open, prosperous Europe can be achieved only on the back of financial discipline. That was the principle on which we negotiated in 2013, and that is a principle we will continue to apply. The agreement that will be implemented by the Bill will be good for Britain and good for Europe, too. I commend it to the House.