Energy Prices: Support for Business

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 22nd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

We have acted extremely swiftly to provide support, and it is proper that it should be reviewed to ensure that it goes to the right people. The timeline is completely reasonable. It seems to me that people are looking for things to harp on about in a package that they broadly welcome.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Many businesses are negotiating contracts with their energy suppliers now, so what does the Secretary of State have to say to those businesses? Should they negotiate just for six months? What will he do, in all urgency, to prevent the next six months from being a period in which businesses are run down and closed?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

As I have set out, there will be a review and an announcement, giving people plenty of time for 1 April.

Shale Gas Extraction

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 22nd September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Community consent is important, and the hon. Lady is right to point that out.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Only a few weeks ago, the Prime Minister quoted the Conservative manifesto when she said that she was going to reverse the rise in national insurance because the party had pledged not to increase it—apparently that was a solemn pledge. The manifesto also said that there would be no fracking where there was no local consent, but apparently that was not a pledge. Can the Secretary of State tell us whether local communities will be consulted before testing takes place, and who will pay the bribes? Will it be the taxpayer or, as he says, the market forces?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The socialists do not like people being paid for things. It seems perfectly reasonable to pay people and, if we inconvenience them, to compensate them, and that will be part of the overall package if shale gas can be extracted.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 3rd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It will not surprise my hon. Friend that I will make no attempt to defend that type of delay. Members have a constitutional right to hold the Government to account and to get proper, full and swift answers. To get a recent reply to a letter dated 30 November 2020 is not a proper constitutional service. I assure my hon. Friend that I will take this up with the Home Office immediately after Business questions. None the less, I do think that getting people back to work in their offices will be tremendously important in clearing up this backlog, because working from home has had all sorts of unintended consequences.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House is right: we have our own opinions, but we cannot have our own facts. Facts are facts. One fact is that the victims of Jimmy Savile, through their solicitor, have made it quite clear that the smear against the Leader of the Opposition is groundless and should be withdrawn. This is a new low for the Conservative party. What makes Conservative Members think that they know better than the victims of Jimmy Savile?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman must ask the Leader of the Opposition why he gave an apology.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 13th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising this very difficult case. I recognise that there are problems in social care that the Government are trying to tackle. There is a £5.4 billion package for social care over the next three years and we will have the end of the lottery that leads to catastrophic costs with the £86,000 cap. The White Paper put forward plans to spend more than £1 billion over the next three years on system reform. The hon. Lady raises an important and troubling case. It is recognised that there are difficulties, but urgent steps are being taken, with very significant amounts of taxpayers’ money, to put these problems right.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

We had a statement this week from the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities about the problems that those in high-rise flats and flats under the height of 18 metres are having with fire safety. A statement is fine, and what he had to say was welcome, but it does not give us the opportunity as Back Benchers, all of whom have cases in our constituencies, to raise the detail of those cases. Can we have a debate in Government time in which we can put the detail before the Secretary of State so that he understands our constituents’ problems?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think I granted that before the question was asked, because on Wednesday 19 January, there will be the remaining stages of the Building Safety Bill, which will be an opportunity to debate this matter.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 16th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I had an absolutely fantastic visit to Stoke-on-Trent, and my hon. Friend is absolutely right: we were shown a saggar maker’s bottom knocker’s work, which is essential to the manufacture of pottery. It was very impressive to see that history. I also agree that the development of the Spitfire is one of the most crucial events in our modern history, ensuring that the battle of Britain went the right way. Celebrating the glories of our nation is something that I think we can try to shoehorn into every comment we ever make in this House. I will not promise him a specific debate, but an Adjournment debate on the virtues of Stoke-on-Trent would be time very well spent.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

We have had the priority lane, which is a list of companies bidding for billions of pounds-worth of covid contracts. We know not how they get on that list, although being a Tory donor or a friend of a Minister seems to assist. I have raised previously with the Leader of the House the matter of the Health Minister, Lord Bethell, who had 27 meetings in one week with companies wanting to bid for more than a billion pounds-worth of contracts, but sadly his office failed to record those meetings in his diary for that week. He seems a very unlucky chap, because he has conducted a negotiation for an £87 million contract over his personal mobile phone. When asked to produce it, he said he had lost it, then he said it was broken, and now he has said he has given it to one of his family members. This behaviour by Ministers is a disgrace, so can we have a statement in the House on the ministerial code as we go through this reshuffle, so that we can ask questions from the Opposition Benches of the Government and ensure that people behave better in future and abide by that code?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It is a particularly silly line of questioning. In the midst of a pandemic, it was fundamental that the Government acted with speed. Personal protective equipment was needed, vaccines were needed and we thought ventilators were needed. The hon. Gentleman would have sat on his hands and thought that we must go through some bureaucratic procedure and tick some boxes. Perhaps we should have gone off to the European Union and asked for its permission. This is typical of the socialist. The socialist always puts the process over the result. What my noble Friend Lord Bethell did was ensure results and save lives. I think these cheap accusations degrade Parliament.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

2nd reading & 3rd reading
Thursday 1st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this issue. The House’s sympathies will be with Ruth and Paul in these appalling circumstances. It is quite wrong for developers to sell substandard homes. Developers of new-build homes must meet their responsibilities, resolve issues quickly and treat homebuyers fairly when things go wrong. I sympathise with my hon. Friend, because as a constituency MP, one has sometimes found that developers have not been good at responding when there have been complaints, and there has been very little recourse. The building safety Bill will include provision for the new homes ombudsman scheme to provide stronger and effective redress for new-build homebuyers and to hold developers to account. This reform is long overdue, and it will be welcomed across the House.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I heard the answer that the Leader of the House gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), but we have to have the right checks and balances in place.

The Health Minister Lord Bethell held a series of meetings with companies that went on to win contracts worth over £1 billion, and the week in question was omitted from his diary. That raises questions about the role of civil servants in the letting of these contracts. Where is the monitoring officer for the letting of these contracts, and who signs them off?

We need a statement in this House on the role of the civil service when it comes to such issues so that we can reassure ourselves that civil servants are not being bullied into silence and that they are holding Ministers properly to account and making them abide by the rules. I suspect that the only reason why we know about the meetings is that a civil servant leaked the emails because they knew that wrongdoing was going on.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think that a fundamentally foolish point. There were 27 meetings, nine of which led to contracts being awarded by my noble Friend Lord Bethell on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government when we were under great pressure to act. That was exactly what the Labour party was asking for. It asked that whatever was necessary should take place—it wanted speed, urgency and decisiveness. That was what the Government delivered. The Government had to get on with awarding contracts to ensure that supplies were in place.

The hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. If normal procurement procedures had been followed, it would have taken three to six months to award contracts—we would have been halfway through the pandemic before we had had a single extra piece of PPE. Would he have wanted such incompetent service? Is that what the Labour party would have done? Would it have just fiddled while Rome burned or would it have got on with things, as my noble Friend did?

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 17th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I will certainly raise that with Health Ministers on behalf of my hon. Friend, and there was a health Bill referred to in the Queen’s Speech, so there will be an opportunity to debate these issues at length in due course. The health infrastructure plan will deliver a long-term rolling programme of spending in health and infrastructure, including district hospitals. These hospitals have benefited from our £600 million critical infrastructure risk fund and our £450 million spending to upgrade A&Es. University Hospital Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust has received £2.2 million from the critical infrastructure risk fund to address the maintenance backlog at St Cross and £3 million for an emergency department expansion, as part of the A&E upgrades investment, so there is a recognition that there are population pressures, and spending does seem to be following accordingly.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I can understand why the Leader of the House would want to dismiss the text messages published by the Prime Minister’s former adviser, but if he were a member of a family who had lost someone in a care home in the last year, I do not think he would dismiss them so lightly. These messages expose the fact that the Government knew that there was not a protective ring round our care homes and that testing of people being discharged from hospital to care homes was not taking place. If we are to be subjected to this public spat between the Prime Minister and his former adviser continuously, should we not, in the interests of those who lost someone, be calling the public inquiry now, or at least have the Prime Minister here to answer questions on this?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Prime Minister is regularly here to answer questions. He was here yesterday at considerable length, both with Prime Minister’s questions and then with a statement, so there are many opportunities to raise these points directly. For some reason the Leader of the Opposition either had not noticed or did not want to discuss these text messages.

It is right to have the inquiry at the point at which the pandemic has ended and a considered view can be taken. There is some difficulty with the Opposition’s position. On the one hand, they complain that there was not enough equipment and on the other hand they complain that procurement was not done according to the most bureaucratic systems. They cannot really have it both ways.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 27th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very sympathetic to what my hon. Friend has said: local town markets draw people in, and they are a highlight that people go into town to use. They often offer all sorts of attractive things for people to buy, and as we normalise after the pandemic, I think they will be a great attraction. Bury market, as my hon. Friend says, is historic, and I wish him every success with the levelling-up fund bid. I cannot necessarily add my imprimatur to it because I would then be asked endlessly for my support for bids across the country, which might exceed the amount of money available.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Those who have been bereaved or left with long-term illnesses during the pandemic cannot fail to be alarmed by yesterday’s evidence from the Prime Minister’s former close adviser. These matters are now in the public domain: allegations that Government adopted a policy of herd immunity, and that they ignored the scientific facts and delayed lockdowns, leading to tens of thousands of avoidable deaths. The truth needs to be examined in the future—I accept that—but surely people deserve some answers now. If we are not to get an immediate public inquiry, the Prime Minister should make a statement about the decision not to hold an inquiry sooner, so that at least we can represent our constituents and ask him questions based on the evidence to the Select Committees yesterday.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Prime Minister was asked about the inquiry yesterday. An inquiry will be set up in this Session, and it is right to do that at the point at which events are more under control. It would not be right to do it while the pandemic is still raging. Evidence was given yesterday by somebody who played a very important role within the Government and who was a very active part of the decision-making process, and who now seems to have turned himself into Achithophel. The lines that come to mind are:

“In Friendship False, Implacable in Hate:

Resolv’d to Ruine or to Rule the State.”

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 25th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend raises a matter that is of concern to a number of hon. and right hon. Members. It is an appalling crime that causes great distress, and it has increased over the past year. The theft of a pet is a criminal offence under the Theft Act and carries a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment, so when he says that it is a low risk, high reward crime, that shows that people should perhaps be better informed of the risk they are taking. Seven years is a very serious sentence. The Sentencing Council’s guidelines on theft now take account of the emotional distress for the victim caused by any theft offence, including theft of a pet, meaning that the courts will now take this into account when considering the appropriate sentence. As I understand it, the Home Office, the Ministry of Justice and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs are discussing possible ways of strengthening the enforcement of pet theft, and of course the Government have hired over 6,600 new police officers during the course of this Parliament, which will help us to tackle this crime better. My hon. Friend will be aware that by raising this issue in the Chamber and making it one of political importance, the police will pay attention and will know what is of public concern. Police resources, and police and crime commissioner elections, tend to follow where there is greatest public concern, so he is ensuring that this issue will be taken more seriously merely by raising it in this House.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

This week a Health Minister said that in her discussions with NHS staff they had not asked for a pay increase. Can we have a debate in Government time on a motion drafted by the Government that defends the 1% pay increase, which is in effect a pay cut, for NHS staff so that hon. Members in all parts of this House can hear from their constituents who work in the NHS and come here with true testimonies about what they think about a 1% pay increase?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

This has to be seen in the context of the economy as a whole and what has already been done. The starting salary for a newly qualified nurse increased by over 12% in 2017-18, and the average nurse’s pay is now at £34,000 a year. The starting salaries for the lowest-paid, such as healthcare assistants and porters, have increased by 16% since 2017-18 from £15,404 to £18,005. So steps have been taken over the longer term to help those working for the NHS. In this current financial circumstance, there is a 1% pay increase for all NHS staff, but an additional 0.7% has been awarded for nurses. The NHS and nurses have been excluded from the general pay restraint because the country—the nation as a whole—recognises the extraordinary work they have done in the past year, the courage they have shown and the public service they have shown, and that has been rewarded as much as possible in these difficult financial circumstances.

Participation in Debates

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Monday 16th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

One issue with which I am not the first Leader of the House to wrestle is that Members want a clear time for the ending of business but also the ability to speak in debates. Trying to balance the two is extraordinarily difficult. I completely understand what my hon. Friend is saying and am very sympathetic to it. I must confess that I was pleasantly surprised by how many people put in for the Armistice Day debate; when we discussed it as a possible subject for debate, we were not at all certain of how many people would want to speak in it. When a debate is brought forward and attracts great interest, there is some feeling that we are getting the order of business right. We will know for next year that there is a considerable desire to speak in that debate.

My hon. Friend’s general point is a very valid one: how we structure business to allow people to make the contributions that they want to make is fundamental. I am afraid that, perhaps rather feebly, I suggest that she contacts the Chairman of the Procedure Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), because it is a subject that ought to be of interest to that Committee.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House keeps quoting the Government guidance, so while he has been answering questions I have looked it up. Last updated on 14 November, the guidance says, under the heading “Going to work”:

“To help contain the virus, everyone who can work effectively from home should do so.”

The only person in this Chamber who is standing in the way of Members of Parliament effectively doing their jobs from home is the Leader of the House. He has got himself into a ridiculous position because he has dug himself in by insisting that people attend this Chamber, but that is a ridiculous approach during this crisis and he should change his mind.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman might have been well off listening to my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who has left his place but said that he had already heard the question asked several times so offered to withdraw it. I am more than happy to answer the same question once again, which is to say that we do need to come here to do our job properly and that is the fundamental point. That is what the Government guidelines exist for: if people cannot work from home effectively, they need to come into work. We are in that category. I do not know, Madam Deputy Speaker, whether you would like me to set out the reasons why, going back through April, May and June—the absence of Westminster Hall, the loss of Fridays for private Members’ Bills, the limitations on the work that can be done and the slowness of legislation getting through—but I will happily repeat myself if that is your command.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. Free, unhindered attendance at Parliament is one of our most ancient rights, going back to 1340. There is no law and no local lockdown that may prohibit elected Members from attending Parliament. But let us understand what we do in this House. Let us not downgrade our role. We are an essential service. It is crucial that the Government are held to account when extraordinary powers are taken, powers that many of us never thought a Government would be taking in our lifetimes. These must be scrutinised and voted on. My hon. Friend is absolutely right to use the word “duty”, which you personify, Mr Speaker. You have done your duty every day and we should do our duty, too.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Government’s view of devolution is that they dictate and local government must obey. The Transport Secretary has written to the Mayor for London, setting out his plans to expand the congestion charge to the north and south circulars. That excludes any opportunity for my constituents to have a say, because he wants it to be imposed in October 2021. Can we have a debate on devolution so we can speak up for our constituents against this dictatorship from the centre?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman overstates his case. He needs to remember that the finances of Transport for London were extremely difficult prior to the coronavirus. The Mayor was not running Transport for London well. He was failing voters in London and running a deficit. Do I want a widespread extension of congestion charging? Does the Prime Minister want that? No. The Prime Minister has said he does not wish to see that because we all know that congestion charging is a means of taxing the motorist. But Transport for London has to be paid for and the Mayor has singularly failed to do that.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 16th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I hear some heckling that suggests I was sometimes accused of reclining when I was sitting in that corner, but my backbone has now been stiffened by joining the Front Bench.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman) phrases himself brilliantly, because he says it has been impossible to raise these issues in the House, and then raises them in the House with great panache. He is absolutely right to do so; we have all had correspondence from constituents on aviation redundancies. These companies are vital to the economy and they are being supported in a number of ways by the Government with the time to pay scheme. The demand for debates will be met when we are fully back to normal, and we get back to normal step by step.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Conservative manifesto at the last election promised a fan-led review of governance of football. As we emerge from covid, many clubs are going to fall into financial difficulties. My local club in the royal borough of Greenwich, Charlton Athletic football club, is currently in that situation. Some dubious characters have got involved with the club, separating off the ownership of the ground and the training ground, which is in my constituency, and undermining the future of the club. We need the Government to make an urgent statement about reviewing the governance of football to stop these bad actors getting into the game, and we need them to do that before the recess, because the season is going to end and many clubs are going to find themselves in difficulties, so we need that urgent statement.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman paid such close attention to the Conservative party manifesto; I hope it influenced his vote in the right direction. He is obviously right to raise the point, as other hon. Members across the House have, about the difficulties football teams face in the current environment. I refer him once again to the pre-recess debate, which is an opportunity to air this issue.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 25th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I hope he will join me in welcoming the Prime Minister and the Education Secretary’s confirmation of a catch-up plan to help headteachers provide extra support to children who have fallen behind while out of school. Some £650 million will be shared across state primary and secondary schools over the 2020-21 academic year and, importantly, it will be distributed by headmasters and headmistresses, who will know best how the money should be spent.

In addition, there is £350 million for a national tutoring programme, which will increase access to tuition for the most disadvantaged children. It is a comprehensive package. My hon. Friend will know that free school meals have been extended through the summer, so efforts are being made to ensure that children will be well fed during this crisis and, indeed, at all times.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson pointed out this morning that more than 100,000 people are employed in the leisure industry. Large gymnasiums, swimming pools and lidos such as the one in my constituency can open safely, whether it is 2 metres or 1 metre, and people are incredulous that we are opening pubs, restaurants and cinemas, but not allowing these important facilities and local amenities to open. They cannot wait for a taskforce. Can the Government urgently review the situation and allow them to open alongside pubs and cinemas on 4 July?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think everyone welcomes the reopening of pubs. People have been locked in for quite long enough and they want to go and have a drink, which is a jolly good thing and should be encouraged and welcomed. They will do it safely and properly. I am disappointed by the hon. Gentleman’s slightly curmudgeonly attitude towards the pubs being reopened. As regards other things, they must be opened in a phased way. There is a degree of risk that can be taken, but that risk must be managed and measured. Of course the Government want things to open up more, and that is being implemented as far as it is safe to do, but it has to be in an orderly way.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend raises a crucial matter. While many people up and down the country have managed to work from home successfully thanks to new technology, it is important to remember that many others have faced challenges. The Government are committed to delivering nationwide gigabit-capable broadband coverage as soon as possible. I hope that this will be able to assist his constituents and others who have found it difficult to work from home using local broadband. Gigabit-capable coverage now stands at 19% and we welcome the pick-up in build rates from industry over the past year. However, we still have far to go to achieve nationwide coverage. We understand the challenges in achieving this, particularly in the hardest-to-reach areas. As a result, we committed in the Budget £5 billion of taxpayers’ money to ensure that these areas are not left behind. We will continue to take action to remove the barriers to commercial network roll-out.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Tuesday’s voting was chaotic and brought this House into disrepute. The end of the queue was moved from one vote to another, which left Members wandering around not knowing where to join the end of the queue and inevitably breaking the social distancing rules. The organisation of this lies at the door of the Leader of the House. He was determined to bring us back, yet the organisation was chaotic. We need to end this Mogg conga that we have to participate in; we need to move into the real world, and allow virtual voting and virtual participation in this House. What does it say to our constituents if this House has to lock down again because of the chaotic organisation of the Leader of the House?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

What does it say to our constituents that we are too grand to queue?

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 19th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am always grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his campaigning for religious freedom, irrespective of the religion for which he believes there should be freedom, which is wholly admirable. We have consistently expressed our serious concerns both to China and at the UN about the human rights situation in Xinjiang, including extrajudicial detention of over 1 million Uighurs and other minorities in “political re-education” camps. The Foreign Secretary raised the issue with his Chinese counterpart, State Councillor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi, on 9 March, and we expressed our concerns in the UK in a national statement at the UN Human Rights Council earlier this month. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that this is being taken very seriously by the Government.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House is responsible for protecting the rights of Members of Parliament as well as being part of the Government. Earlier, he mentioned the need to have regular statements here in the House, but I remind him that the Health Secretary came to the House under an urgent question on Monday, the Chancellor came here only after he had made exactly the same statement to the press, and the Education Secretary came with no plan on closing schools six weeks into the crisis. Scrutiny by this House is absolutely crucial. Today, the Cabinet Office is to publish a list of essential workers who will be able to send their children to school. That should be scrutinised by this House. A statement should be made in this House so that we can scrutinise the list. We need more statements from more Departments, not fewer. The Government need to up their act, because it is clear that we have exposed a number of failings in the Government through our scrutiny. It is important that that list is published here, so that we can scrutinise it.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I think the scrutiny has been carried out well by this House. Both the Chancellor and the Secretary of State for Education were questioned for the best part of two hours, which is pretty comprehensive scrutiny, with Members having the opportunity to raise constituents’ concerns and to make points that are valuable to the Government to take on board as they consider their policy developments. I am a great believer in parliamentary scrutiny. I believe our adversarial system is a very good way of improving decision making, so I am personally committed to it, as are Her Majesty’s Government.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Tuesday 22nd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It is hard to see how the time could have been divided up otherwise. My right hon. Friend mentions the commitment to leave on 31 October and says that people may have voted to obstruct Brexit; they may find that all they voted for is for us to leave without a deal.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

It is a bit rich for the Leader of the House, having prorogued Parliament and broken the law to do so, now to complain about a lack of time. Having said that, he has had an offer from the Opposition to enter into negotiations to set out a timetable for proper scrutiny of this legislation. If he was listening this afternoon, he would have heard many Opposition Members say they were going to support the Prime Minister today but wanted more scrutiny of the Bill. He is arrogantly now taking those votes and saying, “We have to go on the 31st; away with all your desire to have further scrutiny.” That is not a reasonable position for the Government to take, so will he now listen to Parliament for a change, go away and speak to the usual channels to set out a timetable motion for proper scrutiny of this Bill? That is what the House is asking for.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman says that I prorogued Parliament, but there are two problems with that. Not only is it above and beyond my authority to have done such a thing, but had he listened to the Supreme Court’s ruling he would have discovered that Parliament was not in fact prorogued and therefore, whether I had done it or not, nothing had come of it. The Supreme Court said that the piece of paper read out proroguing Parliament was as a blank sheet of paper, so his first point is erroneous.

As for the hon. Gentleman’s second point, I do not want to be pedantic or to quibble, but we have had three and a half years—[Interruption.] Somebody has an important phone call; I am sorry to be interrupting personal business. We have been going over all this for three and a half years. We have had hours and hours of debate, and we need to come to a conclusion. The deadline for the conclusion was set by the European Union—[Interruption.] I am sure that the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) will be called by Mr Speaker if only she is patient. We have had plenty of debate, but ultimately a decision needs to be made.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 17th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady raises a very important point. Everyone in this House wants the welfare system to work and to support people in the correct way. Everyone in this House also recognises that no human system is perfect. Therefore, having debates that raise problems and help to perfect what is fundamentally a good system is something that I, as Leader of the House, would encourage. What form that debate would take, I cannot promise her—whether it would be in Government time, which is probably unlikely considering the pressure of business. However, I think we are all keen to make the system work, and I therefore hope that the points she raises will be taken on board by the relevant Department.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Back in March, when the Leader of the House was reclining on the Back Benches, he gave as a reason for not supporting the previous withdrawal agreement that it did not have the support of the DUP, so could he make a statement today as to why that criterion no longer applies?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am more than happy to say that this deal is worth wholehearted and full-throated support from across the United Kingdom. It is a deal that delivers for the whole United Kingdom. It ensures that we will leave the European Union lock, stock and barrel. It makes special arrangements for Northern Ireland in relation to the Good Friday/Belfast agreement and the fact that there is a land border there between the United Kingdom and the European Union. Those special arrangements support and help the United Kingdom, and the opportunities for the United Kingdom outside the European Union are extraordinarily exciting. This is well worth supporting, and I would encourage the DUP to support it too.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Well, Mr Speaker, let us have an election; let’s let the British people decide. Stop running away from it—not you, Mr Speaker, but others in this House. It is so ridiculous to say that the Government are outrageous, undemocratic, shocking and terrible because they are offering an election. An election gives the choice to the British people and validates whatever we do.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House is very knowledgeable about procedural issues. If the House agrees to an election date of 15 October on Monday, is there any device the Prime Minister could use to move that date to beyond 31 October while the House is dissolved, to take the country out with no deal?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The date of the election flows from the date of Dissolution. [Interruption.] No, it is not: the election follows 25 working days from the date of Dissolution, so if we are dissolved on Monday—[Interruption.] But the process for that—[Interruption.] No, that is a mistake: it is not a minimum once the Dissolution day is set; it is 25 working days from Dissolution.

Tax Credits

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Clive Efford

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

rose—

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I say to the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford), who is a very distinguished taxi driver by profession, that he will be aware of the cab rank principle, and also of the principle of waiting in a queue for one’s turn. We will come to him. Don’t worry, he will not go cold. We will look after his interests, I am sure.