Legal Rights to Access Abortion

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Monday 28th November 2022 Westminster Hall

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend raises the question of the viability of life. The viability of life—when does that start, Sir Charles? When do you think a life becomes a fully independent created life? Perhaps my right hon. Friend thinks we should be like the ancient Romans in their treatment of the newborn baby. St Macrina rescued newborn babies who had been exposed in ancient Rome because their life was not viable without intervention and support. They were allowed to die, until the early Christians, who were thought to be peculiar for doing so, went and saved them. It was particularly the case, as it happens, with disabled babies. We know that the abortion laws we have allow for the full-term abortion of babies with minor disabilities, as my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) pointed out. This is the tragedy of abortion and its destruction of life. My right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East wants to quibble about when life begins. I accept that this is perhaps more a theological question about what is the start of life, but that new embryo has the potential for life. It has been formed as a separate being that is separate and different from the parents from which it came.

[Alex Davies-Jones]

Does the right hon. Member agree that in cases such as fatal foetal abnormality syndrome or ectopic pregnancies, where the life of the woman would be put at risk, abortion is acceptable, or do those lives not matter?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The job of doctors is to save life. It is quite clear that an ectopic pregnancy that may threaten the life of the woman carrying the baby is a case where an intervention may be made to save the life of the woman. That is a perfectly traditional and acceptable understanding of how to maximise the saving of life, while not pretending that there is not life, because there is. There are two lives.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 16th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

We do have regular debates on local authorities and matters relating to them. I am a great advocate of economy within the public service and of ensuring that the expenses paid to councillors are reasonable and proportionate. Essentially, it is a voluntary job where people should not be out of pocket, rather than a professional career where people should be getting the sort of salaries that they might get if they were employed by the state, rather than having put themselves forward.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House will be aware that our hospitality industry has suffered primarily as a result of the pandemic, so will he join me in congratulating Janet’s Authentic Northern Chinese Kitchen, based in Pontypridd market, on its recent success at the British Street Food Awards? Will he commit to a debate in Government time to support our fantastic hospitality industry throughout the United Kingdom?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I heartily congratulate Janet in Pontypridd market on winning the award. I might even volunteer to come and visit her. I recently had the great pleasure of having one of the vanilla slices made by Margaret in Stoke-on-Trent, who was also mentioned in this House. I may be able to go round the whole country visiting the sellers of delicious food. Absolutely, the hospitality industry has suffered. It is getting back on its feet. People are working stunningly hard, and it is really encouraging to hear of the entrepreneurial attitude being taken by the hon. Lady’s own constituents.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The last person summoned to the Bar of the House—the gift of Jamaica, if one inspects it closely—was an editor of the Sunday Express, Sir John Junor. He had had the temerity to say that Members had been abusing petrol ration coupons, and the House was very upset about that. Unfortunately, it made the House look ridiculous, which is why we have not done it since. So I am not going to take up my hon. Friend on his suggestion, but I do take what he says very seriously.

Yesterday, the fact is that the decision had not been completed through Government channels at the point at which the statement was made, but a written statement was laid in the House with the information concerned. It is sometimes the case that a statement by the Government that is being made at one point has other information that is still in the pipeline, and I know the House is aware of this. However, I take what my hon. Friend says seriously. I am concerned about issues—because of the pandemic, so for excusable reasons—of responsiveness to correspondence and written questions, so I am aware that this is a problem. I will of course pass on his comments to my right hon. Friend Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

In recent weeks, nations across the globe, from China to Germany, have been hit by flash flooding, while here at home we have endured a summer heat wave, and parts of the UK have recorded their highest ever temperatures. The Leader of the House must agree that we can no longer sit back and ignore the impacts of climate change—a topic close to my heart given the impact of the devastating flooding that hit my constituency of Pontypridd last summer. Will he therefore join me in supporting the need for a debate in Government time on the devastating impacts of climate change and its links to flash flooding?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

May I reiterate the sympathy that everyone in this House feels for people whose homes are flooded? Even a year later, people are probably still suffering from the effects of that, and it is the disruption, the loss of treasured possessions and all that goes with flooding that makes it so difficult for people and their families. The Government take climate change more seriously than I think any predecessor Government—we are the first major economy to commit to net zero and have continued ambitious climate change targets. We also recognise that the way to deal with this is through technology that will improve people’s standards of living, and to ensure that the technology is there so that people can do more, but cleaner.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 20th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I hear a very loud “Hear, hear!” from my hon. Friend, who I am so pleased to see in his place, as I teased him last week for not being—I am delighted that he is here. I am in entire agreement with my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton): we need to get back to do it properly. The key is that scrutiny is good for the Government, as it is for our constituents and for seeking redress of grievance. The tougher the scrutiny, the better policy is thought through, the better policy is presented and the more it becomes possible to avoid making mistakes that may prove an irritant to our constituents. Getting back to the Chamber and doing things properly is absolutely essential. We have 21 June—Midsummer’s Day itself—pencilled in, so people can leave Stonehenge and come to the Chamber of the House of Commons on that day.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]]

The issues around severe court delays are well documented in this place, but I would like to draw the Leader of the House’s attention to the real impact that these waiting times are having on my constituents. One is a 100-year-old woman, whose fraud case against a former carer has been charged by the Crown Prosecution Service and amounts to more than £250,000. This case was discovered and initiated more than four years ago, yet court delays mean that she is unlikely to see justice served in her lifetime. Will the Leader of the House please urge his colleagues in the Ministry of Justice to step in to seek a resolution, and at the very least will he grant a debate on this issue in Government time?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

It is always difficult to suggest any degree of intervention with individual cases, because those are obviously matters for the court, although I will of course pass on what the hon. Lady has said to the Lord Chancellor. Let me just set out what the Government have done to try to ease this problem, because it is one that has been recognised and, along with other effects of covid, is one of the greatest seriousness. The Government have committed a quarter of a billion pounds of taxpayers’ money to a covid recovery. Additional space has been created to hear more cases, with 60 Nightingale courtrooms that have been opened, and plexiglass, as we see in our own Chamber, has been installed in 450 rooms. More than 20,000 hearings using remote technology are taking place each week, which is an enormous increase from March last year, so things are being done. Now, 2,000 cases a week are being completed in the Crown court, which is similar to pre-pandemic levels, so it is a question of working through the backlog. However, the issue the hon. Lady raises is one the Government take seriously, and as I have said, I will of course pass on the details to the Lord Chancellor.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 15th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend said that people were popping in to say hello. May I encourage them to pop in and actually spend some money, because in a one-stop shop that is really what you need? Like our hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), who asked his question a moment ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) offers a great tribute to the voluntary spirit of his constituency. I would be delighted to join him in congratulating Chris Hill, Rosie Bea, Beverly Hill and Anne Marie Broadley of the One Stop shop in Daisy Hill. These voluntary initiatives are how communities are made, how they come together and how they succeed, and, certainly, if I am in Bolton West, I shall stop in the One Stop shop.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]]

Diolch, Mr Deputy Speaker. We all recognise that the pandemic has had a huge impact on young people, whose lives have been particularly disrupted, yet antisocial behaviour is on the rise and residents across Pontypridd and Taff-Ely are experiencing vandalism and disruption at an alarming rate. The simple truth is that the police and youth services do not have the resources to keep up. Will the Leader of the House therefore please commit to a debate in Government time to allow us to tackle antisocial behaviour at its root?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The key thing here is having police on the streets. It is remarkable how the presence of a police officer can stop antisocial behaviour early on and make people realise the problem caused by antisocial behaviour, which is sometimes just thoughtlessness, rather than criminality. It is important that there will be 20,000 extra police officers, of which 6,620 have so far been recruited, and that the police will have £15.8 billion of taxpayers’ money to help them to tackle this scourge. The hon. Lady is absolutely right that it is one of the most disagreeable aspects. It is the counter to what we were saying about community spirit. Antisocial behaviour causes disproportionate distress to people who are probably the most community-minded and it needs effective local policing to deal with it.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 11th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I congratulate Leigh Centurions on their fantastic achievement. I do not really know how fantastic their achievement is, but it sounds extremely good, and I hope that my hon. Friend will explain it to me in more detail at some point.

Hosting the rugby league world cup later this year will provide a fantastic opportunity to recover, grow, and bring people together. It is the start of our efforts to unite and level up outcomes for people in communities across the UK as we seek to build back better. If I have not confessed it already, I think my knowledge of cricket is a little bit greater than my knowledge of rugby league, but I am looking forward to being educated by my hon. Friend—and, by the looks of it, by Mr Speaker as well.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]]

I am sure that the Leader of the House will agree that it has been an extremely difficult week for the family and friends of the 16-year-old who was killed in my neighbouring constituency of Rhondda, as well as for the loved ones of Sarah Everard, whose case I know we are all closely following. No one should live in fear of male violence, which is a topic we should be regularly speaking up on, and not just in an annual debate to commemorate International Women’s Day. Will he therefore commit to a debate on male violence in Government time?

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 19th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My hon. Friend raises a really important point. I have just set out the very large amounts of money that are being made available, but some incompetent councils are not spending that money well. It is noticeable that they are often socialist-run councils that are not doing things properly, and he is right to ensure that they are held to account. Last year, the Government commissioned Sir Tony Redmond to undertake a comprehensive review into the quality of external audit, and the Government are considering its findings and will respond in due course.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]]

The Leader of the House, being a father to six children himself, will hopefully be aware that on Tuesday we marked World Prematurity Day. He may not, though, be aware of the specific struggles that thousands of families up and down the country who have incredibly poorly babies in neonatal care are currently going through. I can truly say from my own experience that those days, weeks and months spent worrying about your neonate are truly some of the most agonising you will ever go through as a parent. Parents with children in neonatal care should clearly be able to take specific leave from their jobs and should not be financially out of pocket because of doing so. Will the Leader of the House therefore please commit to a debate in Government time to address this issue and ultimately give hope to parents in their time of absolute desperation?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I have the greatest sympathy for what the hon. Lady has set out, and I have some direct knowledge of the issue—not with my own children but from children who are closely connected to me. It is a very difficult and troubling time for parents and they deserve support. In the first place, I urge the hon. Lady to seek an Adjournment debate, but I think the sympathy of the whole House is with the argument she has made.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, because she gives me the opportunity to pay tribute to the House authorities, obviously to you, Mr Speaker, and to Marianne Cwynarski. Between you, you have done amazing work to ensure that the House’s proceedings are carried on in a covid-secure way and that the staff of the House and of Members are kept safe in the House of Commons while we have been following Public Health England’s guidelines. My hon. Friend is right to say that we provide an essential service and we must be here, and that the restrictions must be lifted as soon as they can be. They are all temporary. I look forward to this Chamber being full and bustling once again, but that will have to come when it is safe to do so. I look forward to not having to wear a face mask, but again that must be done when it is safe to do so. We must lead by example to the country at large, both in our dutifulness and in our adherence to the rules.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

This Sunday, our clocks will go back one hour as part of daylight saving time. According to a recent Government report, 59% of the British population would rather remain on summer time, and I think we can all agree that the last thing our country needs is another hour of 2020. With that in mind, will the Leader of the House agree to a debate in Government time to discuss the practice of moving clocks backwards, so that we can follow the EU in scrapping this outdated and unnecessary practice?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Until the hon. Lady said, “follow the EU”, I might have been tempted, but I am afraid that I always enjoy the extra hour in bed. It is such a luxury to find that one gets the clocks going back to Greenwich mean time and has that extra hour’s sleep. More importantly, people in Scotland in particular would have very late mornings if we did not change the clocks. This was debated in 2010 and 2011, and it has been considered recently. When it was last tried, it was then unwound in both the UK and Portugal, so I am not sure that the appetite for change—and certainly not the appetite to follow the EU—is all that great.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 15th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The police are obviously operationally independent, so I would not want to speak about a particular case. I will say this, however. Freedom of speech is one of the pillars of our constitution. Without freedom of speech we find that democracy fails, because there is no ability to question what people are doing and saying. We know that over the centuries regimes that attack freedom of speech often do so through legal means. We used to have criminal libel in this country, which was used in the 18th century to silence people who said disobliging things about the Government. We do not want to be in the situation where laws are used to stop freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is valuable whether it is responsible speech or irresponsible speech, as long as it does not incite hatred or violence. That is the key, and freedom of speech must be protected by this House.

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

With bonfire night on the horizon, people across the country will be preparing to celebrate in ways that are likely to differ from celebrations in years gone by. With planned public displays across the country and in my own constituency cancelled left, right and centre, more and more people are likely to want to celebrate at home. Yet we must remember how dangerous using fireworks can be, from both a health and safety and an environmental point of view, with animals suffering from distress, along with those suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and mental health conditions. With that in mind, will the Leader of the House please commit to a debate in Government time to discuss the greater regulation of firework sales?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

No, I am sorry, but I won’t. I think the regulations are about right and fireworks are fun.

Business of the House

Debate between Jacob Rees-Mogg and Alex Davies-Jones

Thursday 24th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]]

I am sure that the Leader of the House will join me in recognising the specific impact that coronavirus has had on predominantly female-led industries such as the hair and beauty sector. I have heard from many businesses in my constituency, big and small, that are facing financial devastation. Will the Leader of the House please commit to a debate in Government time that will finally allow their voices to be heard?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady is right to raise this on behalf of her constituents. There will be a debate on Monday on the whole covid-19 problem, so she may wish to raise her points then.