Northern Ireland

Debate between Ian Paisley and Robert Buckland

Thursday 1st February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

I will certainly bear that exhortation in mind, Madam Deputy Speaker.

This debate has properly focused on the statutory instrument that will amend primary legislation through the powers of the 2018 Act, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) and I both spent a lot of time dealing with in its enactment. However, it is right to look again at what is outlined in the helpful annex A to the Command Paper, in terms of the history and the legal background to what the parties have been dealing with and why it is that many of the arguments from the naysayers do not pass close scrutiny at all.

I am delighted to see on page 53 of the Command Paper a clear exposition of the position with regard to the Acts of Union—I say the Acts of Union because, of course, there was more than the one in 1801. Since that time the Acts have been amended, and not just by the seismic events of 1921; they were amended right through the 19th century, and indeed beyond, to take into account the evolving position of Northern Ireland. Just as every other part of our United Kingdom has evolved, so has Northern Ireland.

It is right to pause and say that the arguments that were asserted, in particular in the Supreme Court, about what we can now call the old protocol being inconsistent with the Acts of Union are just wrong. That point was never at issue before that Court. The Court specifically said that it did not have to rule on it.

[Ian Paisley]

A lot of this is quite surreal, because it falls into the grounds of piffle. I remember sitting in the Select Committee on Northern Ireland, and the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the right hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), telling me, in October 2019, “This will all be light touch—you won’t even notice it.” We have spent the last four years now trying to unravel the heavy hand of Europe and still need to prise those fingers off what is happening in Northern Ireland. We have also been told that yes, there was a problem, and we all now know what the problem was: this House failed to stand up to Europe and allowed Northern Ireland to be a buffer zone to protect its single market and threw our single market down the toilet in the process.

[Sir Robert Buckland]

I feel the emotion and hear the proper points that the hon. Gentleman makes. The process became the legislative and constitutional equivalent of brain surgery, and the patient was Northern Ireland. Everybody was feeling it. This is not just an archaic debate: this is a debate about the business and economy of Northern Ireland. This is real and important for the businesses that right hon. and hon. Members represent—absolutely right —which is why the hon. Gentleman’s party should claim proper credit for the painstaking approach that he and his colleagues, including the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), have shown in this process. They have not taken no for an answer. They have actually sought to try to reach a solution and be part of that brain surgery process—that neurological change.

But I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that there is a distinction between the integral part that Northern Ireland plays in our United Kingdom constitution and our internal market—our single market—and the inevitable access that Northern Ireland will have to the EU single market. Why? Because of the nature of the border that exists in Northern Ireland, the unique nature of its status and all the history and, indeed, the reality that goes with that. That is why there is not going to be an elegant or perfect solution to all this. It was always going to involve compromise.

Compromise is a difficult word—it implies weakness and fudging; it implies a lack of clarity—but right hon. and hon. Members opposite have recognised that that is the world in which they operate, which is why we are able to be here today to debate important changes that will underpin not just declaratory words about Northern Ireland’s place within the UK internal market, but concrete actions that are set out in the Command Paper. I am thinking in particular of the operation of the Stormont brake. Yes, we need to see more guidance about its operation—we need to understand the evidential thresholds that will be required for MLAs to bring the brake to the attention of the UK Government to lodge their objections; that work has to be done—but today will allow it to happen.

In its judgment, the Supreme Court looked in particular at the question of the sovereignty of Parliament, and affirmed that—as article 6 of the Acts of Union itself recognised—it is the most fundamental rule of UK constitutional law. There is nothing novel, unexpected or controversial about that, which is why some of the language that emerged from that case was not just unhelpful but wrong. I know that the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley, the leader of the Democratic Unionist party, shares my view. It was time for leadership, and leadership means being straightforward and getting it right. That is why I commend the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues for the work that they have done: they got it right, and as a result of their approach we are able today, I hope, to pass this much-needed change. I welcome it warmly, I commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, and I commend this measure to the House.

UK and Gibraltar Prosecuting Authorities

Debate between Ian Paisley and Robert Buckland

Wednesday 3rd December 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Solicitor-General (Mr Robert Buckland)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Crausby, to serve under your chairmanship. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) for securing this debate at a timely moment, when the Joint Ministerial Council is meeting here in London and the Chief Minister of Gibraltar and those of other British overseas territories are with us. It is timely indeed, because it gives all Members of this House and all parties in this House an opportunity to reaffirm our strong support and commitment to Gibraltar and its work, not just in co-operation with the United Kingdom but with other territories and countries, in helping to fight international crime.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Will the Solicitor-General take it upon himself at the end of the debate to let the Chief Minister know of the unwavering support throughout this House and that it stands shoulder to shoulder with the people of Gibraltar?

[The Solicitor-General]

I am happy to accept the hon. Gentleman’s exhortation. I hope to see the Chief Minister at the Foreign Office later today and I will convey the message of this House loud and clear that we support the work of our friends in Gibraltar and the prosecutorial authorities and indeed the Attorney General, Ricky Rhoda.

I can contribute to this debate by outlining the work of the Crown Prosecution Service and Serious Fraud Office, both of which the Attorney-General and I superintend in our role as Law Officers. Indeed, I am pleased to be able to tell my hon. Friend that the working relationship between the UK and Gibraltarian prosecuting authorities is strong and constructive.

As my hon. Friend recognises, the Government have set out to reinvigorate our relationship with the overseas territories, to increase the UK’s engagement with their Governments at all levels and to support them when required. I have just returned from a conference of Attorneys General of 10 of the UK’s overseas territories, including Gibraltar, with representatives from the United States and Canadian Departments of Justice. We met in Miami and discussed a range of topics relating to the rule of law and administration of justice in the overseas territories and sought to enhance our mutual co-operation on a range of matters. After three and a half days of discussion, my firm view is that the Attorneys General of each of our territories play a key role in helping to drive forward legal reform and to meet our wider ambitions.

Ensuring good governance and respect for the rule of law is a fundamental and vital platform for delivering security and prosperity for all our citizens. During the conference we discussed important topics including mutual legal assistance, extradition procedures, tackling bribery, fraud and corruption, improving legislative drafting processes, child safeguarding—a growing and important issue in many territories—and constitutional matters. A series of actions on those subjects was agreed, and I look forward to continuing our close liaison with the Attorney General of Gibraltar and the other overseas territories as we work to deliver them.

I turn to the work of the prosecuting authorities, starting with the Crown Prosecution Service. It is important to note that co-operation between the UK and Gibraltar is not confined to mutual legal assistance through the formal letter of request process. It also takes place, as my hon. Friend suggested, on a police-to-police basis. The appropriate avenue will depend on the nature of the request and the purpose for which the information or evidence is sought. Both the Crown Prosecution Service and the Serious Fraud Office work regularly with other judicial authorities using the established MLA channels. That is how countries request and provide assistance in obtaining evidence that is located in one country for use in criminal investigations and prosecutions in another. It is also used to obtain assistance in the tracing, restraint and confiscation of the proceeds of crime, which is particularly germane to the issues that have been raised today.

Letters of request from Gibraltar to the UK typically come via the United Kingdom central authority, which is based in the Home Office. The CPS will be involved in requests to restrain or confiscate assets here in the UK. The CPS and the SFO have worked with the Gibraltarian authorities in the past few years, and that has been of real benefit to both jurisdictions.

Children and Families Bill

Debate between Ian Paisley and Robert Buckland

Monday 10th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

I was interested to hear the hon. Gentleman’s point about rule 148 of The Highway Code. It is, in fact, only advisory with regard to avoiding distractions such as smoking and playing loud music in vehicles. It is not mandatory in the sense the hon. Gentleman might have been suggesting.

[Ian Paisley]

I was not suggesting that it was mandatory, but it does say that people should not do it. Rule 148 is very clear that people should not do a crossword, read a map, eat a sandwich or smoke while driving.

That takes us back to the crux of the matter. A person who lights up and smokes in front of a child—I hope the hon. Gentleman will accept this—is a prat, in my view, and we as a House should not be legislating on that, but educating. What we should really be engaging in is educating people. We do not require legislation to educate people not to be prats and to be sensible.

The number of people involved is minuscule, so is it right that this House is taking time, money and effort to legislate on such a minor problem? I do not believe it is.