European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 6) Bill

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Stephen Kinnock

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Wednesday 4th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the Father of the House. Like many Members, I wish that crystal balls had been handed out when we first came to this place. Unfortunately, that was not the case. It goes back to what he said earlier—Parliament and the debate have been captured by the extremes, and we have to move on from that. We have to break the deadlock and find a sustainable way of preventing no deal, and the way to do that is to leave with a deal.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend and his colleagues have put forward a very interesting amendment indeed. Could he clarify what discussions he has had with the Opposition Front Benchers about the amendments and what response he has had from them?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I recognise my hon. Friend’s point, but at present I have not had a conversation with our Front Benchers on this topic.

My party’s Brexit spokesperson, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), made it clear in an interview on last weekend’s Marr show that Labour only withdrew from the talks due to the inability of the former Prime Minister to deliver her own party. He stated:

“We took a judgement call that some of the proposals that the Prime Minister put forward she would not be able to get through her own party”.

I think this confirms that our side was ready to compromise on a deal if the Prime Minister could have delivered her own party. The good will was clearly there. Now all the focus should be on finding a way to put that deal back on the table, to study it, to debate it, to amend it, to vote on it, and ultimately to use it as the basic vehicle for sorting out the shambolic situation we find ourselves in.

Shared Prosperity Fund: Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Stephen Kinnock

Wednesday 14th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Ian C. Lucas]

The hon. Gentleman has read my speech, too—I was planning to go on to the north Wales growth deal. I am passionate about regional policy and devolving powers to the nations and regions, but the Government should be giving a lead. It is their responsibility to compensate for market failures with engineering investment to improve a part of our economy that the market on its own would leave behind.

There is agreement across the political spectrum that the present system has not worked as it should for the benefit of all the nations and regions of the UK. We need to reflect on the result of the referendum and ask why investment from the structural funds, for example, has not achieved as much as we would all have liked.

[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Surely the best way to ensure the best possible outcomes for our programmes and projects is to decentralise and devolve, empowering local authorities, local stakeholders and the practitioners who will ultimately deliver the projects to design measures and outputs. The people on the ground know best what works and what does not.

[Ian C. Lucas]

That is my next paragraph, which I shall read. As someone who believes in devolved decision making, I believe that decisions relating to investment in Wrexham and north Wales should be made by people who are close to our local economy and community. Historically, the EU’s structural funds system did not work well for my constituency of Wrexham.

Let me give one example. Wrexham Glyndwr University was established in 2008—the first time in our history that we had a university. That was a strategic moment for Wrexham and hugely important. As I said when I was a Minister within the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, universities are at the centre of developing economies in the modern world. The establishment of Wrexham Glyndwr University was a really important period, but between 2008 and 2014 it received no structural funds at all. The Wales European Funding Office tells us that, in the same period, Swansea University received £89 million, the University of Glamorgan £41 million, Cardiff University £29 million and Bangor University £47 million. There was a lack of investment from the source that was supposed to be supporting the development of the economy in the area that I represent. That was a missed opportunity and will have had a negative impact on the university that we are developing as part of the local economy.

That lack of investment is mirrored in funding for north-east Wales generally. Neath Port Talbot Council received over £89 million between 2007 and 2014, while Flintshire received £3 million. Incredibly, Wrexham received only £446,000. After Brexit, we will need a new system of funding and a fair allocation across Wales. As the hon. Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) said, we have shown the way in north Wales: from the bottom up, local government, MPs, Assembly Members and universities have worked together to produce a growth bid for north Wales to remedy the failings that we believe exist within our local economy. We put forward that growth bid on behalf of the community that we represent; it is very much devised and put together by the local players.

I still get frustrated at having to go with a begging bowl either to the Treasury across the road or to Cardiff Bay to beg for investment. I want those decisions about investment and the power to raise money to be devolved to places such as north Wales, because I have lot of confidence in the north-east Wales economy. Despite the fact that we have not benefited from a lot of the funding that other parts of Wales have had, the economy in north-east Wales has developed during the period that I have been privileged to represent Wrexham. We need to address the defects in our local economy in transport and digital infrastructure. In the future, we will have an insight into our local economy to see where the defects are and to begin to address them.

Palestinian Communities: Israeli Demolitions

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Stephen Kinnock

Wednesday 6th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank my hon. Friend. In my speech, I will talk about the other communities under threat of demolition. I very much look forward to hearing the Minister’s response and hope that it will not just be rhetoric and that there will be some reality in there as well.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

One of the strengths of Israel is the independence of its rule of law and the way in which the courts fearlessly impose decisions on occasions, but what is particularly tragic about the schools that are being threatened with demolition—I have seen them myself, as many other people have—is that they are in the shadow of illegal settlements. The contradiction and imbalance that exists does not help Israel and the perception of Israel in the rest of the world.

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank my hon. Friend. The juxtaposition of the young people in those communities seeking to get an education with, right on their doorstep, those illegal settlements is a metaphor for the terribly challenging situation in which we find ourselves.

Exiting the EU: Businesses in Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Stephen Kinnock

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

Does that not mean that certainty for businesses in Wales and across the United Kingdom will be conditional on a commitment to a transitional arrangement? We must not have a situation where the article 50 negotiations come to an end in 2019 and we fall off a cliff edge, because that would cause so much uncertainty, not just about tariffs but about the regulatory environment to which my hon. Friend refers.

[Ian C. Lucas]

Indeed. It seems increasingly likely that there will be some kind of transitional phase. I have talked about one set of standards—the environmental standards in the automotive sector—but different regulatory regimes will apply to all sorts of businesses right across the piece. Constructing the mechanisms that will apply to businesses and our relationship with the European Union after we leave will involve a huge amount of work. Regimes will have to be defined for areas such as financial services, broadcasting and pharmaceuticals, and those will have to apply very soon. If those systems are going to be in place within the next two years, we need to provide clarity to businesses that are making investment decisions now. Businesses in Wrexham that I represent, such as Wockhardt and Ipsen Biopharm, which are both exporting pharmaceutical companies, need to know what our relationships will be. If they do not, they may begin to reflect on whether the business environment in this country will be as effective, successful and supportive for them in the future.

My objective for post-Brexit Britain and Wales is for the UK to be as close as possible to membership of the single market, while retaining the right to devise and implement immigration policy. If I were negotiating, that is what I would want. I would love the Government to provide that sort of clarity about its negotiating position. It is really important that we have access to the single market. Membership of the EU and the single market has benefited the Wrexham economy hugely—it has become very much an exporting economy—but the lesson of the referendum is that we have failed to manage migration to the UK. I am clear that we must apply a managed migration policy for EU citizens.

Leaving the EU: Wales

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Stephen Kinnock

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Kinnock]

I agree absolutely with my hon. Friend. In many ways, this debate is about resilience. The resilience of the Welsh economy in relative terms is weaker compared with that of many other parts of the United Kingdom. With the impact of Brexit, the loss of funding and inflation—the weakening of the pound will send inflation up, and we know that the poorest are always hardest hit by inflation—his reference to the triple whammy is an apt and correct way of describing what is happening.

The third reason why the pledge is not as powerful as it appears is that the Government have not yet agreed with other EU Governments that UK-based applications for EU funding will be in any way affected. The EU funding programmes for 2014 to 2020 are well under way—they have either already been launched or are in the advanced stage of planning. I fear that the Government’s antagonistic behaviour towards the EU and their lack of clarity over future funding will harm the prospects of Welsh applications.

Fourthly, the Government appear to have no plan for how the underwriting of funding will work at a small business or charity level, which is so important. Fifthly, even if Westminster does replace EU funding, there are serious considerations as to how that will be done and calculated. The Government will likely be tempted simply to increase the funds available on the basis of the Barnett formula. However, as the Welsh Labour Government have made abundantly clear, the Barnett formula has disadvantaged Wales for years, and we simply cannot afford or accept such chronic under-investment any longer.

At a minimum, the chosen approach to replacing EU funds must be ring-fenced—it must be in addition to the block grant. Beyond that, a revision of the Barnett formula is long overdue. In short, there is no clarity and no confidence for the people of Wales. The Government must urgently make it clear that they will underwrite all project funds agreed in the 2014 to 2020 mechanism. They must make it clear that they will maintain EU levels of annual funding to Wales for at least a decade post-Brexit, and they must set out how the replacement of funds will work in practice for the Welsh Government and local organisations in the spectrum of Brexit scenarios.

Also, the Government must commit to including Welsh voices in the negotiations, especially with regard to other themed EU funding programmes such as the Erasmus student exchange programme or the Horizon 2020 higher education innovation partnership. Of particular concern to south Wales is the future of the UK relationship with the European Investment Bank, whose loans have helped to build the Swansea bay campus; improved the Welsh Water and Severn Trent network in 2015; and upgraded the Great Western mainline. The last loan was worth £430 million. Such institutions matter greatly to us. The head of the bank, Werner Hoyer, has already publicly made it clear that current levels of lending to the UK cannot be maintained after Brexit. Welsh voices must be heard in the negotiations as our future so critically depends on those relationships with the continent. The Government must make clear whether they will seek associate status to the programmes and institutions. They must bring clarity quickly as the futures of people, communities and organisations across Wales hang in the balance.

Although it looks likely that the entirety of the UK will suffer economically in the coming years as a result of Brexit, it is in many parts of Wales where it will hit hardest, as our economic resilience is relatively low. That does not take into consideration the impact of Brexit on the steel industry, which would be hugely endangered if EU tariffs are imposed on it. If investment in Wales is not maintained, vital projects will go under, followed by businesses. People will lose jobs, and unemployment and welfare bills will shoot up. Communities will fracture. Port Talbot and its people have been through enough. That does not have to be our future.

In Port Talbot, Aberavon and across south Wales we are seeing the enormous potential to accelerate what we are doing. There is innovation. One company, SPECIFIC, has developed a steel-based paint that acts as a solar cell to generate power. It could turn every building in the country into a power station—except perhaps for Boris’s Foreign Office. The Swansea bay tidal lagoon is a world-leading project to capture wave energy. The Swansea bay city region proposal, Internet Coast, could transform south Wales into one of the best digitally connected places in the world. All that is being done without any sign of a proper industrial strategy. Imagine if we actually had one.

Alongside the Government’s Brexit negotiations, they must also present a modern industrial strategy, backing skill development, innovation, modern manufacturing, sustainability and the digital revolution. The strategy must focus on regions such as south Wales, where we have so much underdeveloped talent. When the Welsh Secretary declares that we should not simply replace EU money with Westminster money because we have to address underlying issues, we have to laugh. First, of course we need to address the underlying issues. Unlike him, I am unwilling to settle for basic skills. I am ambitious to ensure my constituents have the high skills needed for new industry to flourish in south Wales. Secondly, it seems blindingly obvious that financial support is a precondition for building such industries and developing skills. Finally, it was very nice of the Welsh Secretary to say that publicly, but it is his Government’s responsibility to come up with the solution, so he may wish to get on with it.

The Government must recognise with humility and sobriety rather than the gung-ho hubris they have shown so far that, if Wales does not continue to receive funding for crucial programmes, communities will be devastated for generations, with everything that that means for people’s lives. It will result in a lack of security, a lack of dignity and a lack of hope. I therefore hope that the Government will reassure the people of Wales quickly that they will ensure the floor is not ripped out from underneath them.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Parallel to the UK’s membership of the EU has been the rise of one of the most successful businesses in the world: Airbus. One of the real threats to business is the arrangement concerning communication between the multinational aspects of that business. It is essential that the Government work closely with business to preserve a premier economic powerhouse such as Airbus.

[Stephen Kinnock]

I agree absolutely with my hon. Friend. There is no better example than Airbus, which is an exemplar of a cross-country, cross-industry collaboration. Airbus has worked as a consortium that has developed through its supply chains a world market-leading capability. When people say the European Union is a sclerotic project that does not work anymore, there is one answer to that question: Airbus. It is a fantastic example, as my hon. Friend has described. We must now see a commitment from the Government to continue to support such projects moving forward. It will be more difficult in the wake of Brexit, but it is still possible. It is up to the Government to show leadership to ensure that that happens.

We need a comprehensive funding and industrial strategy that does not say our best days were in the coal and steel boom years of the 1960s. We need a strategy that says our best days are still ahead of us.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between Ian C. Lucas and Stephen Kinnock

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. As we have discussed, it is clear that energy-intensive industries require support from Government. That was recognised by the Chancellor in 2011. The support that has come, finally, is welcome. The big question for me is how it could possibly have taken five years to make that happen—to get the state aid clearance that was required from the European Union. Fundamentally, the strategy for energy must be about spreading the burden of the cost more effectively so that our energy-intensive industries are not being hung out to dry by an energy policy that does not make sense. It is also about making a firm commitment so that those investing have a sense of the stability and sustainability of the market in future. We currently do not have any of those things in place, which is why we are in such a mess.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about stability. Does he agree that the real problem in industries such as solar and anaerobic digestion—on which a reception was held in the House earlier this week—is the instability of the legislative and regulatory framework, which is a deterrent to long-term investment and is costing a large number of jobs in communities right across Wales?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I agree absolutely. The Energy and Climate Change Committee has just produced a compelling report that clearly demonstrates that we are losing investment and jobs precisely because of the mixed messages and signals that this Government send to investors. Business abhors a vacuum. Business needs stability. It needs to know whether there will be a return on its investments, and at present it sees no evidence whatever of that in the United Kingdom.

Wales, and south-west Wales in particular, can also be at the forefront of an internet revolution. Swansea Bay city region has based its city deal proposal on the concept of an “internet coast” to drive the digital future of energy, health and economic acceleration. All eyes are on the Chancellor. If he really wants a “march of the makers”, he must give his full backing to that exciting vision. The Swansea University bay campus, which, I emphasise, is based in my Aberavon constituency, has a huge role to play in the development of the internet coast. I look at my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for verification of that.