Jagtar Singh Johal

Hannah Bardell Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

If I had the answer to that, we would not need to have this debate on the Floor of the House today. I wish the young gentleman who has been released all the very best in their future. The clear issue is that my constituent is yet to appear in court and makes an accusation of torture. The similarity is glaring; my constituent’s situation is profound. I am sure that the Minister may wish to consider my hon. Friend’s question when responding.

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend has done an incredible job of making representations on his constituent’s behalf. The details of the alleged torture are horrific. The all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad and consular services was set up to understand why people who die abroad or are incarcerated illegally do not have the representation that they deserve from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Does he agree that the challenge between diplomatic relations and consular services is something that we must look into more and that the Government must do everything they can to address, to ensure that Jagtar is released and gets proper representation and due process?

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I will not disagree with my hon. Friend. Interestingly, over the last few weeks the BBC has decided to run a programme that is, I suppose, trumpeting the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and, critically, the staff who work there—the vast majority of whom do a very good job; I am sure that there are some in the advisers’ Box. Their commitment, which I will go into in more detail later, is second to none. I must be clear that I have much respect for the Minister of State at the Dispatch Box, and am grateful for their personal engagement and support on this issue. However, right at the top of the FCO there are very serious concerns about investment.

When the BBC shows next week’s episode of how wonderful the FCO is—it will cover consular support, which has been mentioned—I do hope it gets to the nitty-gritty regarding the FCO teams on the ground. I am not saying that these teams are making it up on the hoof, but they are having to work with situations as they emerge without what I would consider to be a proper framework like those used by teams in the United States and other Commonwealth nations.

I hope to make some progress, because the fact that the Adjournment was moved early means that I could technically talk until about quarter past 7.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am certainly not going to disagree, because I think everybody is boasting about their diplomatic successes against the UK at the moment in a most dreadful sense, and that should concern us all.

The epitome of the approach was seen in the recent appearance of Indian Deputy High Commissioner Dinesh Patnaik on the BBC Asian Network in January, when he breezily said that

“Jagtar will be charged and he has not been subject to torture”,

despite the lack of any public investigation by the authorities of the Republic of India and the fact that no charges were laid before the courts, basically, for more than six months. These realities must be passed on if people are to understand the true nature of what is happening. Such comments have led many to conclude that due process has been overlooked, if not intentionally undermined, and that many have already made up their mind about my constituent’s innocence or guilt—something that is utterly unacceptable to me, I am sure to the Minister and I hope to Members in all parts of the House.

[Hannah Bardell]

My hon. Friend is being very generous in giving way. Just to take him back very briefly to the point about media and press coverage, there are some significant parallels with the case of my constituent Kirsty Maxwell, who was, we believe, killed abroad, in Spain. The stress it causes to the family when there is misreporting and misinformation in the media and often the lack of support from the FCO—I appreciate that there are significant challenges—is something that we absolutely must address. I commend my hon. Friend for the comments he has made and the challenge he has offered to the Indian press in regard to his constituent.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. On the media and differing approaches, since I was first elected to this House in 2015, I have had to deal with several cases of consular support, where media intrusion has had a detrimental impact on the cases. That is true not just in Jagtar’s case. I am mindful of the case of my constituent Lisa Brown, who has been missing in Spain—we presume murdered—and the distress caused to her family by some of the ways in which the media approached that case. It is the same for many Members who have constituents who have died or are in detention abroad.

I can only hope that the publicity generated by this debate will leave the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in no doubt that it must not relent in its efforts to ensure that all these elements—transparency over the torture allegation; due process; the assumption of innocence until proven guilty; and the rule of law in ensuring that all allegations are dealt with appropriately—are addressed by the Government of the Republic of India. The family and I expect the FCO to fulfil these duties. Critically, at some point down the line, we may eventually be able to have a trade agreement with the Republic of India. What type of trade will we have where we might sacrifice our ability to defend democracy and its pillars for free trade?

Let me touch on elements away from Jagtar’s case that give me cause for concern. The job of a Member of Parliament gives you the privilege and the challenge of representing all your constituents, and this often means offering assistance when they have had adverse experiences abroad. As I have said, Jagtar’s case is not the only one that I have seen up close with the FCO. Although I have found the overwhelming majority of those who work in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to be professional, dedicated and diligent representatives of their organisation—I cannot name them, but they have heard me say this—they are dealing with structures and resources that often do not allow them to give the level of service they would hope to. That can cause a large amount of frustration for family members and create a vicious cycle of misunderstanding and failed expectation.

When Jagtar’s brother and I hear a Minister of the Crown say from the Dispatch Box that they will take “extreme action”, we do not immediately appreciate—none of us would—that the staff at the sharp end of that action will be under-resourced, poorly supported and left at the whims of the politicians who lead that organisation. My hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) shone a light on that in her work on the all-party group on deaths abroad and consular services. I am sure Members across the House will agree that this vital work should improve the experiences of our constituents, should they find themselves in the same position as Jagtar’s family.

We all appreciate that we are in the middle of the greatest upheaval in this political state’s foreign policy since 1921. If Members do not know what happened to what was then the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland in 1921-22, they should go to the Library. It has been all too often left unsaid in our present predicament that a “global Britain” of any sort must be properly resourced and that resources must not be to the detriment of consular services across the globe. Ensuring a consistent service, allowing the best practice, which we know exists in the FCO, and listening to the thousands of dedicated, diligent and professional staff across the globe to ensure that families who experience the worst are given a clear but compassionate idea of the roles of the FCO and the responsibilities it has towards them, would make a world of difference. They are not asking for huge elements of massive investment; they are asking for clarity and a process that we can all agree on.

Families such as Jagtar’s appreciate that there is no simple way to assuage their concerns, and that the efforts made by Ministers cannot always be made public or be shared with them. The family and I appreciate the efforts of the Prime Minister in raising the case with her counterpart, Prime Minister Modi, in April, but I am sure the Minister appreciates that we are wondering why it is still necessary to be asking many of the same questions as we were a year ago through an Adjournment debate on the Floor of the House of Commons.

You may be glad to know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I am going to start bringing my remarks to a close.

[Hannah Bardell]

rose—

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

With that, my hon. Friend would like to intervene. I will certainly give way.

[Hannah Bardell]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Does he share my concern about properly resourcing and training our consular staff? They do a very difficult job in some of the most challenging circumstances, but they will be facing up to £1 billion of cuts in the coming financial year. Add to that the challenge of Brexit, and our FCO needs the support of this Government and its Ministers to ensure that our constituents are properly represented when they get into challenges or trouble abroad.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am not going to disagree with my hon. Friend. There is a resource issue. One of the FCO’s greatest resources is its members of staff. They have knowledge and capacity. No matter what I think of the constitutional position of this country, they are diligent professionals in their jobs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Field]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, I always try to work on a cross-party basis, particularly on these very difficult matters. For those who are interested in the BBC programme on the Foreign Office, I believe that Thursday’s programme will talk about a particular consular case from Cambodia—my part of the world—on which half a dozen MPs on a cross-party basis expressed particular concerns.

Let me try to respond to many of the points that have been raised. I undertake to write to those whose questions I may not be in a position to answer fully.

[Hannah Bardell]

Before the right hon. Gentleman comes to those points, I say gently to him that when I set up the all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad and consular services, I could not have imagined the impact that it would have on me and my staff, who have heard evidence from over 50 families. I cannot imagine what it is like for the family of someone who has died abroad, been incarcerated, held prisoner or gone missing. I say to the right hon. Gentleman, on a personal basis, that the testimonies of those families have highlighted to me that there are significant challenges and failings, and I believe that there are areas on which we can work together across the House, because almost every Member has had such a constituency case. I hope that he will give a commitment today to work with me and the all-party group to fix some of those issues and look for solutions to make sure that no family has to go through what Jagtar’s family—or any of the other families that we have heard evidence from—have had to go through.

[Mark Field]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. While I inevitably cannot make a guarantee that no other families will go through some of these difficulties, I am clearly only too happy to work with her. Unfortunately, it is the nature of being a Foreign Office Minister that in the past 18 months, I have met several families—not constituents of mine, but of other hon. Members—who have been through the harrowing experiences to which she referred.