David Fuller Case

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I very much welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s words and his offer to work together on this. I most certainly would like to take him up on that. I think the whole House would want to see us all working together on this.

I reassure the right hon. Gentleman that there is comprehensive support rightly available to all families and friends that have been affected. As I said a moment ago, every family of the known victims has been contacted directly by family liaison officers. They are in touch, and that support will continue for as long as necessary, including dedicated caseworker support, a 24/7 telephone support line and whatever counselling and support of that nature is needed. That includes support for staff in the NHS and elsewhere, where staff will also be affected.

On the terms of reference, that is something that I and my Department will work on with Sir Jonathan. I have already started discussions with him on that, and I am sure that he will want to have discussions with others, including families, their representatives and the Members of Parliament who represent those families.

The work that Sir Jonathan will do will be broad in its nature. I think it has to be, because, as the right hon. Gentleman rightly alluded to, it has to go beyond just hospitals. There are a number of settings that rightly need to be looked at, including, for example, local authority mortuaries, private mortuaries and other settings, such as undertakers. I think the inquiry should be open to all of that, and I think we would want to see that reflected in the terms of reference.

Lastly, the right hon. Gentleman referred to recommendations around access, documentation and CCTV. He is right to raise all those issues. I want to be careful not to pre-empt the final outcome of what is an independent inquiry, but I am sure all those issues will rightly be looked at.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

I join the Secretary of State in giving thanks to Kent Police for its sensitivity, but also its tenacity in bringing Fuller to justice after all these years. I am grateful to the Secretary of State for agreeing to the inquiry that my colleagues in the area have called for.

It is important that the House understands the need for the inquiry. As well as brutally murdering two young women, Fuller raped the dead bodies of over 100 girls and women. Their identities are known, and that means that their families have been informed. The shock and desolation that those families are going through is beyond imagination. That is why the inquiry is so important—because this can never be allowed to happen again. It does go beyond the local. In the last four years, there have been over 30 incidents of unauthorised people entering mortuaries in NHS hospitals. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the inquiry will do three things? First, will it allow victims’ families to give evidence on the impact the crimes have had on them? Secondly, will he make public recommendations for the whole of the NHS, as well as the local NHS trust? Thirdly, will he publish the assessment of the risks for other sectors in which people have access to human dead bodies? We can never take away the horror and the grief that is being suffered by the families, but we can do one thing, which is to protect other families from having to go through this nightmare.

[Sajid Javid]

I very much agree with all the words of my right hon. Friend, especially when he talks about the shock, hurt and pain of all the families, many of them his constituents. He asks specific questions on three points: whether the victims will be allowed to give evidence to the inquiry; whether the recommendations will be for the whole of the NHS and be public; and whether the inquiry will publish its findings on other sectors beyond the NHS. Absolutely, the inquiry will do all three things. I can give him that assurance.

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Tuesday 14th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

When it came to the pay rise to which the hon. Gentleman refers, we accepted the recommendation of the independent pay review body. I think that was the right thing to do.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the likely course of the pandemic means that more and more people, vaccinated or not, are likely to be infected by covid, but that levels of protection from the vaccines will keep them from serious disease? Will he say something about the triggers for any future lockdown or other restrictions, and confirm that the expected increase in the transmission of covid will not be among them?

[Sajid Javid]

My right hon. Friend is right about the importance of vaccines. On any potential triggers, I have not yet today mentioned the importance of being on guard against future variants, especially if there is ever a vaccine-escape variant. No one can rule that out, which is why our surveillance system is so important, and in that situation the Government would have to take further action. We cannot say today what such action would be, but that is the kind of risk against which we need to be on guard.

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 19th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Nadhim Zahawi]

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s support. We are looking at high-risk, large capacity indoor venues. My colleagues in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy—the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) and others—are currently working with the industry to take advantage of step 4, to get those businesses back on their feet and then, of course, to take all that learning so that I can be back here at the Dispatch Box in September to share with the House how we can sustain the industry going forward while we live with covid, because we will have to transition this virus from pandemic to endemic status.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

The now famous test and release pilot was first announced on 29 April. Is the lack of any results from that pilot, nearly three months after it started, a failure on the part of Public Health England, or are the results being suppressed because the Minister might be concerned that NHS Test and Trace does not have the testing capacity available to make test and release available to everyone?

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 12th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I agree with the hon. Lady that the workers in the NHS, no matter what their role, have been the heroes of this crisis, as have care workers. I think we agree on that, and that making sure it is recognised also requires us to ensure that they are paid properly. The hon. Lady is also right to link this issue to, for example, the backlog and the huge amount of work that lies ahead. I hope she will bear with me, and in due course we will set out our response to the pay review recommendations.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement. He will know that on 29 April, a pilot scheme to test and release was introduced to avoid the disruption caused by the need for contacts of people with covid to isolate for 10 days. He will also know that our right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster was a beneficiary of that scheme. Will he say what the results of the pilot have been, and when it might be available to the rest of us, which I hope will be before the third week in August?

[Sajid Javid]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his support for my statement. That scheme is very important. I have not yet seen the final results, but results are starting to come into the Department. As my right hon. Friend will know, while the pilot has been going on the Government have also made an announcement about more flexibilities for double-vaccinated people from 16 August onwards, but I will endeavour to say more about this and publish more data as soon as I can.

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 28th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

Cancer diagnosis and treatment has remained a top priority, and rightly so, throughout the entire pandemic. Some 2.47 million urgent referrals have been made and over 618,000 people have been treated between March 2020 and April 2021. The hon. Gentleman may also be interested to know that following the “Help Us, Help You” symptom awareness campaign, many of the so-called missing patients are starting to come forward and urgent referrals are rising. That is what we all want to see.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend to his post and place on record my thanks to his predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matt Hancock), who was always assiduous in attending the Science and Technology Committee and, indeed, in coming to the Dispatch Box.

Is the Secretary of State aware that Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, one of the heroes of the Oxford vaccine, recently told my Committee that we need to be aware that new variants are likely to infect even the vaccinated, but:

“If…high protection against hospitalisation continues despite spread”

of cases

“in the community, the public health crisis is over”?

What will my right hon. Friend do to inform the public, and perhaps some officials, that we must move from being concerned about the number of cases of covid to focusing squarely on hospitalisation?

[Sajid Javid]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. This is a such a crucial point and it is one that I referred to earlier. Of course, cases are not unimportant, but because we now have the vaccine, thankfully, and in this country in particular so many people are getting vaccinated—of course, we want to see more and more people coming forward, but the take-up is excellent, especially compared with other countries—it is the vaccine that is going to break the link between case numbers and hospitalisation. As I said, we are absolutely starting to see that. The indications are very, very positive on this, and I hope that is the kind of news that my right hon. Friend will welcome.

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 14th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am happy to raise that for the hon. Gentleman. I almost thought he was going to say, at the end of that, that he was glad that Britain now controls its own borders.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

Young people have made big sacrifices during the pandemic and seen two years of their lives disrupted. Many students and school leavers will be leaving school and university between now and 19 July, so will the Secretary of State confirm that what he said in his statement about removing the 30-person limit on commemorative events will include graduation ceremonies and school-leaving parties in commercial venues? After all, school students in particular have been educated in bubbles with each other for months now, and it would add insult to injury if they were to be denied an opportunity to say farewell to each other.

[Matt Hancock]

I will ensure that the precise Cabinet Office guidance reaches my right hon. Friend’s mobile phone as soon as possible. I am now an hour and five minutes into this, and I am afraid I am going to have to get back to him on that one.

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I answered those questions in response to the right hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth). The truth is that when we put Pakistan and Bangladesh on the red list, positivity among those arriving from those countries was three times higher than it was among those arriving from India. That is why we took those decisions and, of course, they were taken before the Indian variant became a variant under investigation, let alone a variant of concern. It is striking that the Scottish Government took the decision to put India on the red list at the same time as we in the UK Government did. It is all very well to ask questions with hindsight, but we have to base decisions and policy on the evidence at the time.

When it comes to how we are tackling the virus in the UK, the hon. Lady is quite right that it is good news—albeit early news—that the vaccines do appear to be effective against the B1617.2 variant. I am obviously pleased about the evidence we have seen but we are vigilant about that. I am glad that the approach we are now taking in Bolton and Blackburn worked against the South African variant in south London. We always keep these things under review, but I think that as a first resort, surge testing, going door to door, ensuring that we find and seek out the virus wherever we can spot it, and putting in the extra resources with the armed services who are supporting us, are the right approaches while we keep this under review. The numbers thus far nationally are still relatively low and, thankfully, we have a very good surveillance operation across the UK so that we can spot these things early and take the action that we need to.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree with Sir Patrick Vallance, who told my Committee that new variants will arise all the time and that border restrictions will only slow, not prevent, those variants that originate overseas? What level of vaccination protection do we need to get to in this country before my right hon. Friend is in a position to rescind the rather strange advice that he has just given to my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt) and allow people who have been tested three times and quarantined for 10 days to travel to places such as France and Spain?

[Matt Hancock]

Typically my right hon. Friend asks the most pertinent question, to which we do not know the answer. The level of vaccination that we need in order to withstand the incursion of new variants, even those that the vaccine will work against, depends on their level of transmissibility, and we do not know the increased level of transmissibility over and above that of B117, the previous main variant here in the UK, which was first discovered in Kent. This is an absolutely critical question, but unfortunately we do not know the answer to it yet.

Coronavirus

Greg Clark Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I just want to answer my hon. Friend’s second point before taking further interventions. His point about long covid is important. In fact, the National Institute for Health Research, which has done a brilliant job during the pandemic, has today put out a £20 million call for further research and diagnostics, including patient and public involvement, so that long covid can be properly understood, and people who catch covid and have symptoms over a long time—which I know can be deeply debilitating for some people—can get the support they need on the NHS.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend mentions the fact that we live with flu every winter and act against it. Has he made an assessment of what level of hospital admissions would be consistent with protecting the NHS?

[Matt Hancock]

It is very difficult to know in advance. At the peak of this pandemic, we had 38,000 patients in hospital across the UK at any one time with covid, but of course that meant that other non-urgent treatments had to be delayed. There is a question of the trade-off and how much treatment is delayed. In a bad flu season, elective operations and non-urgent treatments are delayed. That is one way in which the NHS manages through a difficult flu season in winter. Measures like that will be necessary if we have an increase in covid cases.

If we have learned anything in the last year, we have learned that we have to live with risk as a society. That is a reality, so the goal and the strategy are to invest in the NHS so that it has more capacity, make sure that it can expand capacity and make sure that we have the vaccine effort and the continued efforts that people will no doubt take personal responsibility for, such as mask-wearing—and people will be highly likely do that to protect themselves and others, after the experience we have just had. I want to get to a point of personal responsibility plus the vaccine plus the test and trace programme, so that people can be regularly tested and we can use that to break the chains of transmission. I want to manage covid in that way, while restoring our freedoms. That is the best way, once we have made our way carefully down this road.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Sir Christopher Chope) mentioned the evidence to the Science and Technology Committee that there is no known instance of outdoor infection from covid. That comes from a session that we held to scrutinise the science behind the road map measures, and I thought in my few minutes today I might just draw the House’s attention to some more of the evidence we took.

First, the road map was set based on an assessment based on evidence that is more than six weeks old. It did not have the advantage that we now have of the experience of what has happened since the vaccination programme returned results. What we know, very happily, is that the assumptions made were much more pessimistic on vaccine take-up and vaccine effectiveness than have come to be realised.

My hon. Friend will know that witnesses to our Committee suggested strongly that if we are to be driven by data not dates, we should have the flexibility to advance more quickly, should that be possible. We know that there is not the opportunity today to revise those dates, so we have what we have, but I hope that the Minister will take from this debate the real determination that we should stick at least to those dates and be rigorous in looking at the data, all of which is encouraging.

I have some concerns, as did witnesses to the Committee, about what might happen in the future. A fellow member of the Committee, the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer), talked about the opacity of some of the data that is there to trigger further releases. The road map is in place, but the powers of the 2020 Act will continue, and I was a little concerned to hear the Secretary of State in his opening speech, having noted the 90% fall in hospital admissions from the peak of the pandemic, then use words of great caution about continuing to need to protect the NHS. Of course we need to do that, but we need to know what that means.

In evidence to the Committee, both Chris Whitty and Dame Angela McLean begged this House—politicians and Ministers—for some indication of what we regard as a tolerable level of risk. In the case of flu, which they cited, we have deaths each year, but in seeking to avoid them we do not lock down the whole country, so we need to supply an assessment of what degree of proportionality we should take. I do not say that should boil down to a number, as we do not do that with flu; we should nevertheless come to an understanding of what are appropriate measures in the context of the disease.

Finally, it is important to reflect on the evidence that we heard that we will not be entirely able to keep out infections and new variants from overseas, short of doing such damage to our society and our economy as is unconscionable for a trading nation as well connected as we are. I hope therefore that the Minister will confirm that we are not going to pursue a policy of repelling boarders, which would be ruinous for our economic future and our reputation as an open trading nation.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Three-minute limit.

Covid-19

Greg Clark Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2021 Commons Chamber

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend—indeed, my friend—for that point. The reason we are doing this is that we have been clear throughout, and the Prime Minister has been clear throughout, that this should be the last lockdown we experience and that, once we relax these restrictions, they should be irreversibly relaxed. That is why we are doing it in a staged way, one step at a time, and we will continue to monitor the data, which I hope and believe will continue to go in the right direction. But it is because we do not wish to see anything happen that could cause us to pause or reverse that we are taking it step by step.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

But if the data surprise us on the upside, would it be possible to look again at those dates and take advantage of that?

[Edward Argar]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. What we have sought to do here is to set out a road map that is measured and cautious but provides, as much as we can, that degree of certainty to allow people to plan for the future. We do not want to set out expectations that are unlikely to be met, and therefore this plan is based on those “at the earliest” dates. If I may, I will make a bit of progress, and then, if we have time—I am conscious of the time—he may wish to return to that point.

We know how tough lockdown has been on people—on individuals, on families and on businesses—and naturally we are beginning—

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

The fact that the Prime Minister was able to make his statement today is principally down to the extraordinary achievement of having multiple vaccines being rolled out right across the country to the whole adult population by the summer. It is a scientific landmark, but also an historic achievement by the NHS, by pharmacists, by volunteers and not least by Ministers and their officials and the vaccine taskforce. We are immensely grateful to them.

The Prime Minister is absolutely right to be, as he put it,

“driven by the data rather than by dates”,

so I was a little surprised that dates featured very prominently in his statement today. These dates were described as “not before dates”: not before, for example, 29 March will it be possible to play outdoor sports; shops and hairdressers and gyms will be open not before 12 April; restaurants and hotels will not be open before the date of 17 May; and full wedding ceremonies will not be allowed before the date of 21 June. I understand that everyone in the industries affected craves certainty, but it may just be that pubs, restaurant owners, hairdressers and the travel industry would be perfectly willing to accept an earlier ability to trade if the data allowed it.

The evidence that the Science and Technology Committee took from leading scientists just last week, the same scientists who are advising the Government, was that the data are all pointing in the right direction. Professor Woolhouse of Edinburgh said that

“if you are driven by the data and not by dates, right now you should be looking at earlier unlocking because the data are so good.”

Just this lunchtime, Professor Andrew Hayward, professor of infectious disease and epidemiology at University College London, said that if we are driven by the data, then we need to be prepared, if things are better than expected, that we may be able to release faster than we expect. I therefore say to the Minister that I hope the Government, in adopting this plan, will not be inadvertently a prisoner of the plan.

During the weeks ahead, vast amounts of data will be available to the Government and to their advisers. Following the data is the right policy, and I hope that that is exactly what they will do.

Covid-19 Update

Greg Clark Excerpts

Thursday 17th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

We are working on exactly that proposal, because the need to use testing and use the easily available and rapid-return lateral flow devices is incredibly important. They have an important role to play, used in the right settings, in the same way that the PCR tests have an important role to play, but it takes longer to get the results back with those tests. I look forward to working with the hon. Lady, with Luton council, and with all those across Bedfordshire to try to get this sorted. Clearly, case rates in Bedfordshire are shooting up in a very worrying way, and I thank her for her efforts and public health messaging to say to everybody right across Bedfordshire, including in Luton, “Let’s work together to get this sorted.”

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

I asked my right hon. Friend to consider restrictions on a more local level than county-wide, and I am grateful that he has done so across the country today. Infections in Tunbridge Wells, while much lower than the average for the county of Kent as a whole, are nevertheless rising, and there is pressure on the local NHS, so I understand why there is no change from tier 3 today. However, will the Secretary of State commit to apply the five tests fortnightly, and to reduce our level of restrictions as soon as they are met? Will he also have a word with the Chancellor to see what extra support can be given to businesses in the hospitality sector, which have just lost the most important part of the trading year in what has been a miserable year for them?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, of course I will talk to the Chancellor about the point that my right hon. Friend raises. Of course, we do already have a significant amount of support for hospitality businesses, but I understand how difficult this is.

On the point about looking at local areas, we will absolutely do so, as we have demonstrated in the decisions taken today. For instance, just over the border in East Sussex, we have unfortunately had to put Hastings and Rother into tier 3. Tunbridge Wells today has a case rate of 288 per 100,000, and I would say to everybody right across Kent that we really need to act with serious responsibility. No matter which part of Kent a person is in, we have a very serious problem in Kent, and the only way in which we can get it under control is for people in Kent to essentially behave as if they have the virus and are trying not to pass it on to somebody else. Be really cautious in Kent: it is the area of the country that has the biggest problem in terms case rates, and therefore there are huge pressures on the NHS in Kent. I thank everyone who works in the NHS in Kent for what they are doing.

We are putting in as much support as we can, and I look forward to working with my right hon. Friend, all colleagues from across Kent and of course the county council and district councils to try to get this under control. Other parts of the country have done it and brought the case rate down, and we have been able to take some into tier 2. I am sure that we can get there in Kent, but we have to work hard to make that happen.