Energy Spending Priorities: Investors and Consumers
Debate between Graham Stuart and Angus Brendan MacNeil
Mr MacNeil
It is not simply a unilateral UK issue. CCS is in Canada and Norway. The fact that, unfortunately perhaps, I am not in the German Parliament and so am not scrutinising the German Government possibly explains why I am not talking about the point the hon. Gentleman raises. CCS is certainly not unilateral. Further, we could argue that German Government feel they are off the hook because other Governments feel it is nothing to do with them, either. Someone has to start taking responsibility somewhere. Other countries are. We should play our part. That competition would have helped immensely.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
One of the report’s recommendations is for clarity over the three CfD auctions. I have not seen the Government’s response, so will the hon. Gentleman enlighten the House about what details there were on timing, technology and the other questions he raised in the report?
Mr MacNeil
I refer the hon. Gentleman to the report. We have had only one response on carbon capture and storage. As for the other reports, I think a response came early today, but we are waiting for the response on the main report on investor confidence.
I will move on to the report on home energy efficiency. All the policies mentioned affect consumers, as they are subsidised through the levy control framework. My Committee also looked at Government changes to spending that affect consumers more directly, namely changes to spending on energy efficiency measures that are levied on consumer bills but sit outside the LCF. As with the report on investor confidence, our energy efficiency inquiry was another piece of work that stakeholders urged us to take on at the roundtable meetings we held early in my time as Chair of the Committee. At this point, I would like to thank Josh Rhodes, the Committee specialist, for his work and help on the report.
We know that improving energy efficiency is a win-win for households and the UK as a whole. It enhances energy security, cuts carbon emissions from housing and reduces costs. For consumers, the benefits include lower energy bills, and, critically, warmer, more comfortable homes—more arguments should be made on that point—and improved health and wellbeing. When we work on the technical energy side, we sometimes forget that these things are for human beings, who have very nuanced and different reasons for wanting to insulate their homes and have warmer homes.
Mr MacNeil
The hon. Lady makes a good point, and if she wants to pull the very wealthy out of those schemes that might be an idea. Often, these things start by aiming at certain groups, but unfortunately the target and those who get hit are very different, and the Government often miss that.
Insulating draughty homes can save vulnerable people from fuel poverty—a problem that remains unacceptably prevalent across the UK. My Committee’s recent report concluded that the Government’s latest efforts to improve household energy efficiency had proved inadequate. Although the energy company obligation delivered many improvements, it did so at much lower rates than previous schemes. The green deal did not significantly increase demand for energy efficiency; it fell far short of original ambitions and was too complex and costly, and it also failed to address the hassle factor that can prevent customers from signing up. If anyone should know and understand the hassle factor, it is MPs after their recent dealings with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, as that is an example of hassle and why people do not do things—there is something to be learned there about behavioural economics and desiring a scheme that will work for people. We in this House should have known better when the green deal was coming.
The Government’s new ideas, which include their plans for the energy company obligation in 2017, gave us cause for serious concern, and the decision to use the new obligation to tackle fuel poverty may well be misguided. The UK is the only country in Europe to take such an approach, and a scheme that charges the households it is designed to help appears inherently regressive. Alongside that, given the huge number of homes yet to benefit from energy efficiency measures, the reduced ambition of the new obligation is a major disappointment to me, to the Committee, and to many who gave evidence to the Committee.
There is now no support to help households that wish to install energy efficiency measures but cannot meet the costs upfront. The Government disagreed with our argument in their response, but we still do not know what the reformed scheme will look like. We have asked Ministers to look again at pay-as-you-save mechanisms, as well as at the infrastructure behind the Green Deal Finance Company, when considering how to assist such households. We also need demand drivers such as stamp duty and council tax reductions for efficient homes. I am pleased that the Government agreed in their response that the Green Deal Finance Company could play a role in the future. If the Government take concerted action now they can help to insulate consumers from future energy price rises. That would be money well spent and an investment, and it would prevent the need for large-scale retrofitting in future.
Graham Stuart
Previous efforts have tended to end up being implemented in more urban areas, but those who are poorest and whose homes are the most difficult to insulate often live in rural areas. Does the Committee have any recommendations for the Government to try to ensure that any future programmes reach those on low incomes in rural areas who are particularly vulnerable?
Mr MacNeil
As a rural MP, I am aware of that issue. The hon. Member for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach) is also assiduously aware of it, and I commend and congratulate her on raising it in Committee on just about every possible occasion. The hon. Gentleman will be delighted to know that on several occasions the Scottish Government were praised for their actions and—perhaps tongue in cheek; perhaps not—maybe I could recommend that energy policy in that area be devolved to the Scottish Government who, according to the evidence, seem to be doing a better job of it for the whole UK than other Governments.
English Votes for English Laws
Debate between Graham Stuart and Angus Brendan MacNeil(8 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Graham Stuart
I will make progress, if I may.
In the aftermath of the Scottish referendum result last autumn—which SNP Members find so hard to accept—and as the consequent further transfer of powers takes place, a solution must be found. The Prime Minister was right that day when he said that he would take action. There is no widespread desire for an English Parliament. I have gone around my constituency and talked to my constituents, and I find no such desire. The people of England do not want yet another Chamber, with more legislation, more politicians, more costs, and more confusion. This Parliament has stood at the apex of our democracy for 800 years.
The Government’s proposal is right to focus on delivering fairness in the House of Commons by ensuring that English issues will require the consent of English MPs. The ability of all MPs to amend and vote on legislation is maintained. One would be hard put to know that if one had listened to either the hon. Member for Wallasey or the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire, but it is true. However, there will now be mechanisms to ensure that England’s specific consent is needed to pass clauses and Bills that affect only England.
I welcome the Government’s proposals wholeheartedly. They are a big step forward. In saying that, I should acknowledge that the process of determining whether or not a clause did indeed affect only England, or England and Wales, might occasionally be tested. However, I hope the convention would be that in the event of doubt, or likely controversy, the tendency would always be for the Chair to err on the side of ensuring that everyone had the vote—that it was open to all. I think such controversy would be likely to arise on very few occasions, and I would hope SNP Members would join us in seeking to cut through that Gordian knot and make sure that, as much as possible, there was that clarity and separation.
Graham Stuart
I simply say to the hon. Gentleman that the vow was made, it has been brought forward here, and it is being passed through—[Interruption.] It is being fulfilled. I say to the hon. Gentleman that, rather than coming forward with a hard—[Interruption.] He can try to shout me down if he wishes, but I would simply say that this proposal is to change Standing Orders; it is a rather fragile way of making this change, and we will have a review in a year or so, and the Leader of the House has explicitly said that if legislation is required, he will look at that. The truth is that if this did not work, given the fragility of the Government majority it would take only a handful of colleagues on the Government Benches in conjunction with those on the Opposition Benches to reverse it. If it was in place today, it could be reversed tomorrow as easily as that. So, again, suggesting this is some form of sustained constitutional vandalism is entirely at odds with the truth, and I say to SNP Members, who, as I have said, have but a single thought, that if they want to pursue that cause, they will find it most effective with their own constituents, or indeed in this place, if they say what they know to be true and do not try to make out something is something when it is not.
Mr MacNeil
The hon. Gentleman says there will be confusion with an English Parliament. I am quite sure the English people could manage a Parliament of their own. After all, the French and Germans do so without any help whatever from the Scots.
The hon. Gentleman also mentioned asymmetric devolution. I ask him to cast his mind back and remember that before devolution there were 72 MPs and the quid pro quo for devolution at the time was 59 Scottish MPs. He is now saying that in this incorporating Union not only do we have fewer MPs, but we have less power. We are not first-class citizens or even second-class citizens; we are fourth-class citizens based on what our rights will be in this House. The hon. Gentleman is making a huge mistake from his point of view. From our point of view, he is probably giving us a huge lever to break the Union apart, and we will only have the Union of 1603—the Union we should have—left.
Graham Stuart
The lacklustre support for that even from the hon. Gentleman’s own disciplined Benches says a lot; that was not a worthy contribution by him. He knows full well there is no change to the role he will play. His status is not being diminished in any way. This change simply means there will be consent here. It is the tiniest step towards the very principle the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues have espoused for many years. It seems that just as soon as the Government make a proposal, it is said not to be enough—if we introduce a Scottish Bill to fulfil the vow, it is not enough. Every single speech given by every single SNP Member is to express disappointment and say whatever is in front of them is not what was promised. That wears thin, and I ask the hon. Gentleman to recognise that this minimal change is not making a fundamental change to his status in the House.
SNP Members here have to recognise that the existence of MSPs to determine devolved matters in Scotland means they cannot reasonably expect to decide such matters in England without English consent. They will still be playing their role; my constituents will see Scottish MPs playing a full role in passing legislation that affects only them, but with one proviso, which is that consent is given from English MPs.
The way in which Labour Members vote on this issue is a litmus test of whether they understand the country they want to govern. The hon. Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall) has shown characteristic courage in arguing that her party must accept the fairness of English votes for English laws. In recent years Labour has consistently placed itself on the wrong side of public opinion in constitutional issues, whether that be denying us all a say on the Lisbon treaty or fighting the last election on a refusal to trust the people with a referendum on a reformed European Union. I have great affection and respect for the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman), but his description of English votes for English laws as “racist” was tasteless and untrue. It spoke to Labour’s wider problem of not recognising that the people of England want to determine their own future, at least partly in the way the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish do, not through an English Parliament, with all the expense and risks that that would involve, but simply through consent mechanisms delivered in this place.
The Opposition cannot continue to classify Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish devolution as the pure pursuit of patriots while classifying English devolution as the agenda of bigoted nationalists or, as the hon. Member for Wallasey suggested, as partisan manoeuvring by Conservative Members. That, too, was beneath her. That caricature is as grotesque as it is offensive. In less emotive terms, the shadow Leader of the House has warned about the risk of creating two classes of MP, as have many on the Labour Benches. That is a similarly bogus argument. As we know, there are already multiple classes of MP: Front Benchers; Back Benchers; those representing the devolved nations, who work in tandem with Members of the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh and Northern Irish Assemblies; the Speaker and his deputies; Select Committee Chairs; and Privy Counsellors.
The Government’s proposals simply seek to establish the principle that English issues should be decided with the consent of the English. All MPs will still get to vote on all legislation on Second Reading and on Report. However, the Committee stages will provide an important democratic safeguard to ensure that English, or English and Welsh, MPs approve the matters that affect only their constituents.
Graham Stuart
That is a principle that the hon. Gentleman has espoused for many years, but he has now been told, for reasons of opportunism and a certain amount of cynicism, to change his mind. I give way to him.
Mr MacNeil
I notice that the legislative process in the House of Lords will not be changed, so Scottish Lords will still be able to vote on English matters. Scottish MPs—especially Labour MPs—have been voting on English matters since devolution in 1999, but these changes are being proposed only now that 56 SNP MPs have been sent here. Internationally, this will look like a partisan measure against one party. If this proposal is carried, it will be the action of this Parliament against one party: the Scottish National party.
Graham Stuart
The hon. Gentleman is an experienced and long-standing Member of this House, and he will know that Members of the House of Lords do not represent any particular area. It is bogus and false—as so many of the arguments from his Benches have been today—to suggest otherwise.
If our democracy is to function properly, it needs to be accountable to all the nations of the UK, and English votes for English laws is an important step towards achieving that. At a time of great constitutional change, it will ensure equity in our devolution arrangements. Almost 50 years have passed since the West Lothian question was first raised in this House by a Labour Member of Parliament, Tam Dalyell. The need to resolve that question now is greater than it has ever been. The proposals in front of us represent a modest but important step towards providing the equity and balance that will ensure that we can remain one great United Kingdom, however much that might frustrate those who might be in the wrecking business but are not very successful at it.