Early Parliamentary General Election

Debate between Graham P Jones and John Baron

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Baron]

That is not a fair point, for the simple reason that in that general election both the Labour manifesto and the Conservative manifesto promised to deliver Brexit. All we have seen since is utter delay and confusion, caused largely by remain MPs who will not honour the referendum result.

[Graham P. Jones]

The hon. Gentleman keeps saying that this is a remain Parliament with remain MPs—he keeps throwing that around—but the House of Commons Library confirmed that in excess of 575 MPs have voted for Brexit and voted for leave. How can he say that they are remain MPs when they vote to leave the European Union?

[Mr Baron]

For the simple reason that the House has consistently voted not to honour the triggering of article 50. We keep kicking it into the long grass. When the hon. Gentleman and I voted to trigger article 50, the Bill was simple and short: it said that we would leave by 29 March, with or without a deal.

[Graham P. Jones]

rose—

[Mr Baron]

No, the hon. Gentleman has had his chance. It said that we would leave with or without a deal. Too many Members have continued to kick the can down the road—not once, not twice, but now three times, courtesy of the Bill passed earlier. It is absolutely ridiculous, and people are utterly fed up with it. A lot of remain MPs must look at themselves in the mirror and own up to the fact that all they want to do is stop Brexit. The people out there have had enough.

Energy Bill [Lords]

Debate between Graham P Jones and John Baron

Wednesday 14th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Baron]

The hon. Gentleman makes a decent point. There is a lack of clarity on a range of issues. We want to encourage people to get on to their company’s cheapest standard direct debit tariff. We must try to ensure that bills are clearer, otherwise people will continue to pay too much for their energy.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

I am concerned that some people with prepayment meters will not be able to switch to direct debit. What is the hon. Gentleman’s view on prepayment meters? People will load up and pay heavily on the meter in the winter, but budget and save in the summer. Under the green deal, payment rates will now differ, however. By the end of the summer, people may have a backlog in what is effectively a standing charge on the green deal.

[Mr Baron]

That is a fair point, but I would say in reply that we need greater clarity on bills on the availability of cheaper tariffs depending on payment method, which would include prepayment. We are not getting that at present. At best, we are getting generic messages saying, in effect, “You may be able to save money if you ring this number,” but the evidence suggests that such messages are not sufficiently strong to incentivise people to find the cheapest tariff. New clause 19 addresses that specific point.

In the Retail Market Review, Ofgem stated its disappointment that the energy suppliers have not abided by what it considers to be the spirit of its post-2008 Energy Supply Probe standards of conduct, and that they have not always made details about switching as prominent as they might—although some companies have gone further than others. Ofgem is therefore frustrated about the lack of progress in this area.

Having questioned both the previous and the current Governments about the need to do more in this area, I was pleased to see a coalition commitment that energy suppliers should provide information about cheaper tariffs on the bills and statements they send to their customers. In October last year, I sent a letter to the Secretary of State suggesting a solution to these problems, which involved energy suppliers printing clearly on customers’ bills how much money they would save if they were on their supplier’s cheapest standard tariff, assuming different payment methods. I felt that talking about pounds, shillings and pence—I was brought up in the pre-decimalisation era—sent a much stronger message than giving just general signposting information.

Discussions followed and in June 2011 I was invited by the Minister of State to chair a billing stakeholder group to make recommendations about the implementation of the coalition agreement commitment. The group comprised representatives from the Department, from ERA—the energy retail association, representing the energy suppliers—and from consumer groups such as Which?, Consumer Focus, Citizens Advice and Ofgem. Useful meetings were held over the summer and I thank all the members of the group for their contributions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Baron]

The hon. Gentleman has a point, but his proposal goes only so far. My problem is that energy bills are far too complex. I want to set hon. Members’ minds at rest: I do not stay up at night studying my energy bills, despite what Ministers think, although I might create the impression that I spend my time doing nothing else. The essential information is often contained on one page, followed by five or six pages of bumpf which compares usage with neighbourhood usage, and even usage overseas and so on. It is a lot of nonsense. What we want is clear information to cut through the 300 existing tariffs, which can be confusing. We need greater clarity, and there is no better way of getting that than making sure that we have information on a bill that says in pounds, shillings and pence how much would be saved if that customer was on the company’s cheapest standard tariff, taking into account actual usage and payment method. If that information was clearly laid out in no more than four or five lines, we could cut to the quick very easily indeed.

Before I accepted a series of interventions—hon. Members were right to make them and I hope that I have answered their questions—I described the three proposals suggested by the billing stakeholder group: two for this winter, the letter and the generic message; and one for next year, which would be an obligation on suppliers, following research on which is the clearest message, to put that in place for winter 2012-13 . Ofgem supports the billing stakeholder group’s general direction of travel, but I am aware that it is about to publish detailed proposals, following consultation, as part of its retail market review. One measure that it is considering is increased prescription on suppliers’ communications with customers in bills and annual statements. Having discussed that with the Minister, I understand that he has asked Ofgem to publish its findings before Christmas. He and I have therefore agreed that we will wait to see what those findings are before the billing stakeholder group and the Minister consult on whether Ofgem’s recommendations go far enough. If not, the third recommendation, in subsection (c) of new clause 19 will be triggered.

I therefore seek assurances from the Minister that the recommendations from the billing stakeholder group, as reflected in the new clause, will be agreed by the Government, with the qualification that we await the findings of Ofgem’s proposals in December this year before deciding whether to trigger subsection (c). The Minister has kindly indicated in previous discussions, following my letter to him of 8 September this year containing the stakeholder group’s recommendations, that he supported the proposals—something that I very much welcome, and for which I thank him. I therefore look forward to his response.

[Graham Jones]

I should like to speak to amendments 24, 23 and 25, which deal with the registration of information with landlords, and amendment 47, which would bring forward the date on which the standard came into force from 2018 to 2016.

I am pleased to make a contribution to this vital debate, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) for tabling the amendments on landlord registration, as they are important for constituencies such as Hyndburn. The problems that parts of the country such as mine have in trying to comply with any form of action must be appreciated.

During the summer recess, many hon. Members enjoyed the less than balmy summer statistics released on fuel poverty. They show that far too many of our constituents dread the coming of winter because it will mean living in a home that is cold and damp, and the daily choice between whether to turn on the heating or to go without food or other essentials presents itself. Official statistics show that, in 2009, 5.5 million households in the UK could not afford to heat their home to a reasonable level and lived in fuel poverty. My constituency has a worse than average level of fuel poverty, with 7,352 households—one in every five—living in fuel poverty. This summer also brought the dreadful news that the big energy companies are to push up their prices even further, which will increase those numbers. It will result in more misery for the people in my constituency. Citizens Advice handled 104,000 fuel debt inquiries last year.

The worst conditions are too often found in properties rented by landlords. The most recent English housing survey found that more than 40% of private rented homes were not of a decent standard compared with 27% of local authority housing. Some great work on conditions in the private rented sector is being done by charities such as Shelter and Crisis, but we must do more. Last week, tenants in privately rented homes came together to form the national private tenants organisation, a move that I warmly welcome. It certainly has my support. They deserve the attention of the Minister for Housing and Local Government, who seems unable to hear anything but the voices of the landlord lobby. Almost as soon as he stepped through the door of the Department for Communities and Local Government, he declared:

“With the vast majority of England’s 3 million private tenants happy with the service they receive, I am satisfied that the current system strikes the right balance between the rights and responsibilities of tenants and landlords.”