Media Green Paper
Debate between Gordon McKee and Ian Murray(1Â week, 6Â days ago)
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The Minister of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Ian Murray)
It is great to see you in the Chair, Dr Allin-Khan; I think this is the first time I have responded to a debate with you in the Chair, so congratulations. I congratulate the new shadow Minister on what I understand is his first visit to Westminster Hall since his appointment. It has been a good visit.
It is great to be having this debate, and I congratulate the right hon. Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale) on securing it. He is right to say that an hour is not enough for it, but I am sure we will come back to these issues on a number of occasions. As he knows, we have a Green Paper process to consider the principles behind these big issues, and we then work out the detail by asking people what they think is the best way to deliver things. I know that he is very knowledgeable about these issues and will continue to bring that knowledge and experience to the Chamber.
The right hon. Gentleman said that the Green Paper has some controversial proposals, but I am not sure that they are necessarily controversial. There are big questions that we have to answer in a changing media environment, and they sit alongside a number of other big issues that the Government currently have timetabled, including the BBC charter, which I will come to in a few moments. BBC charter renewal, the Green Paper and other issues of online safety are all coming together in this new environment, with the blurring between what is television and other issues.
Let me set the scene for why we are doing this. When they are functioning effectively, we would all agree that our media provide the foundation for a cohesive country and a healthy democracy. They can establish shared understanding, shared facts and shared experiences. That is crucial for helping people to trust and understand one another, and for communities to be held together.
However, the media are facing huge challenges. As we set out in the Green Paper, television is undergoing a profound transformation, having moved from the system of limited broadcast channels we had when we were growing up, as the hon. Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild) suggests, to an environment of having content everywhere for everyone, where the largest players are the global streaming services, video-sharing platforms and social media companies. Our domestic broadcasters, which are the best in the world, including our public service media providers, are battling to be seen in an increasingly competitive and fragmented market in which audiences are seeking their entertainment and news.
As we know, people—particularly the young—increasingly access news online, rather than through more regulated spaces such as their TV sets, so there is a disparity: if someone is sitting in front of a piece of content on television, it is regulated, whereas if they watch the same or similar content online, it is not regulated. That is the kind of big issue that the Green Paper is trying to draw out. That weakens the ability of trustworthy news providers to reach audiences and shape and inform public debate. The Government believe that we need to do more to adequately equip younger generations with access to high-quality media. That is why we are acting.
In the light of those challenges, for the “Watch this space” Green Paper we consulted on a variety of proposals to ensure that media, and television in particular, can continue to play a vital role in our society and our democracy by making high-quality UK content and trustworthy news accessible and sustainable for the next generation and beyond. I welcome this debate and the many thousands of responses to the consultation that we received—many tens of thousands, I believe—which help us scrutinise every measure properly to ensure it is as robust and forward-looking as possible.
Let me come to some of the issues that Members raised. First, the right hon. Member for Maldon raised prominence. Public service media content needs to be easy to find on the platforms on which people watch TV or TV-like content. The Green Paper therefore examines the need for increased discoverability on third-party platforms such as video-sharing platforms. The Government have been very clear that our strong preference remains an industry-led voluntary agreement to achieve that in a sustainable and robust way that satisfies all parties. I pay particular tribute to YouTube for the way in which it has engaged with us. However, should those partnerships not go far enough in delivering our objectives, we will need to consider legislation.
The hon. Member for North West Norfolk said that content on YouTube is delivered by the user or by user preference. It is not, really; it is delivered by the algorithm. What is delivered to users is fed to them by whatever the algorithm suggests. If it were purely user-driven, that would deal with prominence, because people would be looking for the stuff that they want to see.
Gordon McKee (Glasgow South) (Lab)
The Minister is making an important point, and I completely agree. My question is quite simple. Every nation around the world is grappling with this problem, although we have the BBC, which is a phenomenal and unique achievement. Has he looked at other jurisdictions and countries to gather international best practice? Every nation is dealing with the fact that all of our media now takes place on platforms that are mostly owned by big American tech firms.
Ian Murray
Absolutely. The international comparisons are not there, because nobody in other regimes has done this before for prominence. If we look at the entire online world, we see that Australia has been the cheerleader for an under-16s social media ban and for functionality changes to social media, but nobody has really looked at the algorithms, how people digest their entertainment and where it comes from, so we would be the first movers. One of the key issues that we have to unpick is that we want a UK solution for UK audiences and users, but west coast American companies dominate the marketplace. That is one of the key things that we are trying to work through with this Green Paper and the big issues that have been raised.
I will not go into the various ways of improving discoverability today, but they will be looked at in the coming weeks and months as a result of the Green Paper consultation. We want a thriving public service media sector, which would have massive spill-over effects for the entirety of the rest of the economy. If we crack prominence and get it right on a voluntary basis, we will not need legislation.
The right hon. Member for Maldon said that YouTube is all user-generated and not mainstream, so we should not give public service media prominence in it. I am sure he shares that very strong view with others. YouTube may once have been the home of cat videos and other things, but it is changing. In December 2025, YouTube had higher monthly viewing figures than the BBC for the very first time, so people are digesting that content, and I am not quite sure whether those users are aware of the differences between it and television. I know that if I sit my six-year-old daughter down in front of the television, she can watch something that is heavily regulated and safe. I would never sit her down in front of YouTube and just let her watch stuff, for the simple reason that she should probably not be doing that at six—and it is unregulated.
I want to talk briefly about the BBC, because it sits alongside the issues of public service media and prominence. My hon. Friend the Member for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey) raised a number of issues about the BBC. We will have a permanent charter. The hon. Member for North West Norfolk raised that issue as well, but the Secretary of State has been very clear that we will have a permanent charter. That is a great outcome for the charter renewal period, I think. On under-75s, we have no plans to change the position. It is now the preserve of the BBC to make those decisions, and it has done so. Under-75s on pension credit do receive a free television licence.
I say to the hon. Member for Caerfyrddin (Ann Davies) that the charter review has a very clear commitment to supporting minority language broadcasting, including Welsh and indeed Gaelic, as Members can tell from my accent. We are actively exploring ways to ensure that S4C in particular and minority-language broadcasting continue to be sustainably funded. Of course, one of the key questions for the BBC in relation to renewal is about the issue of sustainable funding, which the White Paper will address.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Gordon McKee and Ian Murray(2Â years ago)
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Ian Murray
I thank my hon. Friend for that question, and congratulate him on winning the Western Isles. He is Mr Western Isles, and he will be a champion for those islands.
The Government will continue to engage with Harland & Wolff, local MPs and the Scottish Government to monitor the situation and support a resolution that provides long-term certainty for the yards and workforces across the whole UK, with all four yards across the UK being treated as one. The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Kirsty McNeill), recently visited the Arnish yard. I have visited the Methil yard twice—once before the election and once during the election—and I have regular meetings with the Deputy First Minister on this issue and hope to meet her again in the coming weeks. We will do all we can to protect these yards.
Gordon McKee
Having spent many years working for my right hon. Friend when he was on the Opposition Benches, may I welcome him to his position as Secretary of State for Scotland? The creation of GB Energy will support 50,000 new jobs across Scotland. It will deliver lower household bills and help us meet our net zero obligations. Given that Glasgow already has a fantastic renewables industry, may I ask what work he has done with his Cabinet colleagues to ensure that GB Energy supports jobs in Glasgow?
Ian Murray
I congratulate my hon. Friend on winning his seat in Glasgow South. His question is much better than any that he ever wrote for me.
My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero is due to make an announcement on the location of GB Energy very soon. I regret that, in the interim, I can say no more than that, although I am sure that my hon. Friend’s words of encouragement in respect of Glasgow will not have escaped the attention of my Cabinet colleagues. I can announce exclusively to the House today, Mr Speaker, that GB Energy will be headquartered in Scotland.