Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill

Debate between Gerry Sutcliffe and James Duddridge

Tuesday 26th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[James Duddridge]

My hon. Friend draws a strong parallel and teases out the point that if something is done in the open in society, there is greater protection than if it is done in private, whether it be drinking or gambling.

The Minister has been exceptional in listening to the concerns that have been raised. There has been a strong dialogue with the industry and the Culture, Media and Sport Committee. I hope that she reflects on the debate and is able to assist us. The ideal response would be for her to say that new clause 1 is absolutely perfect and fabulously crafted, that there are no errors whatsoever, and that the Government are desperately thankful for all our work and will accept it immediately. I suspect that that will not be the case. It is not normal practice for a lowly Back Bencher to craft a perfect amendment that takes all points into consideration.

If the new clause is flawed, perhaps the Minister will consider bringing forward a consultation on the issue and setting a time scale for it. It would be unsatisfactory if consultation was offered, but it did not happen for several years and the report sat on the shelf for several months afterwards. In addition to considering a timed consultation, will she go into a bit more detail about what will happen if the consultation shows that the substance of the new clause is needed? We will not have another gambling Bill in the next couple of years, so if primary legislation is required, it needs to go into this Bill. That might not happen today, but it could happen in another place. There is significant concern in the industry that there is no mechanism for making this change through secondary legislation if a consultation shows that it is the right change to make.

I look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments. I will be happy if she restricts herself to commenting on the Bill, rather than my shopping habits. I thank hon. Members for their help in drafting the clause and for their support.

[Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)]

I will speak in support of new clause 1 and other new clauses in the group. I refer colleagues to my declaration in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, which states that I am a trustee of the Responsible Gambling Trust.

I support new clause 1 for the reasons set out so ably by the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge). The Culture, Media and Sport Committee discovered that the Gambling Act 2005 had been the first piece of legislation on this matter for more than 40 years. It was controversial to say the least. The provisions on the casino industry were messed about with a bit in the final stages of the passage of that Act. I have always felt that there has been a problem with how casinos have been treated. The former Minister for Sport, Richard Caborn, admitted in evidence to the Select Committee that we did not get everything quite right in the casino legislation. That was a brave thing for him to say, but he was right.

As the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East has said, we are unlikely to see another gambling Bill in the next two years or even longer. It has taken three years for this small Bill to reach this stage. Although I accept that the Government do not want to widen the Bill’s remit, it is important to put things right that have been wrong. The Government want better regulation and to help businesses to create more jobs. The hon. Gentleman was right to point to the impact that the casino industry and the gambling industry in general have on the economy and on jobs. Gambling is an important industry, but it attracts unwelcome attention from the likes of the Daily Mail, who do not want to see people enjoying gambling. Gambling is an integral part of our way of life. One need only look at the people who bet on the national lottery and at how people enjoy horse racing and sports betting in general.

New clause 1 sets out what needs to happen in casinos. Casinos are the most regulated and, I would argue, the safest environments in the gambling sector. I hope that the all-party support for new clause 1 will give the Minister some cover in arguing elsewhere that it is important to put this anomaly right. The hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East said that we might not press the new clause today, but there is a strong feeling among Members that something must happen during the passage of the Bill. That is a strong message for the Minister. I hope that she will hear it and support the proposal. We look forward to hearing what she has to say about the timetable of meetings that she will have with the casino industry and what she intends to do during the passage of the Bill through the other place.

I will briefly mention some of the other new clauses. The purpose of the Bill is consumer protection. I fully agree that it is important that there is consumer protection. There is a school of thought which says that the Bill is about raising tax revenues. I hope that that is not the case. I know that the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) will speak about tax revenues and what would be a fair rate of tax.

There is an important relationship between sports and the betting industry. That is why I support new clause 5, which was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Clive Efford). It relates to the reporting of suspicious activity and the power to obtain financial information. The relationship between sports and gambling is unique. The problem is that there is no sports betting right. Sports governing bodies have no control over the bets that gambling companies offer on their sports. For instance, in football, there might be betting on the number of times the ball goes out of play or on the number of corners. The concern is that such bets can lead to match fixing and betting irregularities. The Government need to consider this issue, with regard to the scandals in cricket and football that have emerged in recent months and years.

New clause 7 relates to dormant accounts. The Minister heard people’s feelings on that matter loudly and clearly in Committee. There is money on the table that could go into sports or into research, education and treatment. I look forward to hearing what she has to say about that.

I also wish to consider the advertising watershed. I was the Minister responsible for introducing the clauses on advertising and advice about betting and gambling, and our view was that such advertising would be shown around horse races and sports matches. We did not envisage so much advertising for sports betting before the 9 pm watershed. As I said in Committee, I am a big fan of Ray Winstone, but he almost pressures people into betting in those adverts. There is a need to consider advertising in terms of the watershed and gambling, as in new clause 9.

Gambling (Licensing and Advertising) Bill

Debate between Gerry Sutcliffe and James Duddridge

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) for the timely completion of his speech, which allows me to leap to my feet. The hon. Gentleman gives my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) a run for his money as the champion of betting, and particularly of betting at bookmakers. I am not saying that out of bitterness because my hon. Friend called me idle—I should have been faster on my feet.

The hon. Gentleman makes a bid for being the champion of betting shops, rather like the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly) made a bid for being the champion of online betting. I rise to identify my constituency as perhaps the epicentre of bricks and mortar casinos. Three of the 142 casinos in the UK are in my constituency, all within a mile and a half along the seafront. I will go on to talk in detail about a fourth that is opening up on those golden couple of miles.

Reflecting on the Minister’s introductory comments, it is brilliant to see her in her new job. I was a little worried in the first week. Most Ministers are instructed to hit the ground running, but, looking at comments from journalists, the Minister seemed to be flexing her sporting credentials in karate and throwing journalists around her private office. I am not sure how well that will work out for her in the long run, but if she ever needs me to do anything I will certainly think twice before disagreeing. Having said that, I would love to serve on the Public Bill Committee and will be in negotiations with her on one or two amendments I would like the Government to table if the Chair of the Select Committee does not table them.

I criticised the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) for the enormous list of measures he wants included in the Bill, so I hesitate to ask for more provisions—I want my little bit, but not necessarily his. The Bill is small, but I suspect that if the hon. Gentleman got everything he wanted, I would need a hand to get out of my seat and lift the Bill.

I want to focus on the interaction between online betting and bricks and mortar casinos. This is important not just in relation to deregulation or taxation—my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley hit the nail on the head; this is a much greater part of the process—but in what can be done online compared with what can be done offline in a bricks and mortar casino. As I said, there are 142 casinos in the UK, which means that 3% are in the constituency of Rochford and Southend East. While I am bragging—if you will allow me a brief diversion, Mr Deputy Speaker—I will say that 8% of UK piers, by metre, are in the constituency too. It is a wonderful place to go for entertainment, with the Genting Club, Genting Electric and Rendezvous casinos, and the soon to be opened Park Inn Palace hotel.

My hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Mr Syms) made many good points, but I picked up in particular on his comments on regeneration. At a difficult time for the economy when high streets are not doing so well, Southend high street is doing well and the seafront is being regenerated. When I arrived in Southend more than 10 years ago, there was a beautiful but derelict 19th-century hotel, the Palace hotel. The Government used it to house asylum seekers on a temporary basis, before they could be found more suitable accommodation. That made the area, to a degree, a no-go zone. It is now a four-star hotel, and the company will be opening another casino. It may even be a five-star hotel; it certainly should be, given the quality of service I received. The gambling industry can be of significant benefit to constituencies, whether in Newcastle, from betting shops or from online casinos.

Genting casinos employ more than 170 members of staff in Southend and the company has invested millions in the economy. It supports the broader community through mayoral charities. All three casinos have been fantastic on responsible gambling. Governments always ask for more and more. I often wonder what more the industry can do, but as Governments tinker with taxation and regulation they feel they should ask for more without understanding fully what that could be. There is a tacit understanding, which is in many ways false, whereby the industry says, “We are trying to do more; what more can we do?” and the Department and Ministers do not have a hit list of what they want, because so much is already being done.

[Mr Sutcliffe]

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that Governments can sometimes apply pressure, which is what we did with the responsibility in gambling levy. That voluntary levy—voluntary donations from the gambling industry—is now worth more than £5 million, which shows that the industry does consider the problems that problem gamblers face.

[James Duddridge]

Absolutely. I have had a number of discussions about individual gamblers in Southend who have put themselves on the register and, as a result, have been protected. The protections are not, as a number of hon. Members have said, in the online arena and I am deeply concerned about that. While the Government are, to a degree, looking at online and bricks and mortar together, the two are still too polarised. I can put that down only to the Government wanting to divide and conquer the industry by setting up slightly different regulations, rather than operating en bloc, but they are disadvantaging one of the more high-performing sectors and that is ludicrous.

My hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) described the Essex sea breeze. In his penultimate point, he talked about online gambling in bricks and mortar casinos. It is ironic that a casino is able to advertise outside the Rendezvous casino, but games cannot be played online inside it, even if one takes in one’s own iPad or iPhone. Quite how we could stop people gambling on their own devices I do not know, but it would be much better to allow casinos to have gambling online within their own premises. That would bring it into the family that has greater protection for problem gamblers and into the tax net. The current position is ludicrous.

The Minister indicated that she was sympathetic to the point. I am interested to hear, in her concluding remarks, how that sympathy will play out. Does she expect Back Benchers, on limited resource, to start tabling probing amendments, or will the Government table a new clause that we can all consider? The latter would be my preference, rather than the unfair process of the Select Committee coming up with an idea, an hon. Member pushing it forward in the Bill Committee, the Government considering it, the consultation perhaps not coming back on Report, and then, quietly, the Select Committee’s work coming out as a Lords amendment at the end of a long day, and the Government saying it is just an additional tidying-up matter. There should be a greater degree of transparency. I would like the Minister to introduce a new clause which we can all look at, rather than relying on us to write one up on the back of a fag packet—be it plain or with pictures.

It has been a pleasure to contribute to the debate. I hope to have the pleasure of being a member of the Bill Committee, where I can talk more about Rochford and Southend East and the value of bricks and mortar casinos.