Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, may I thank my right hon. Friend for his remarks about the use of the aid budget, which he did so much as a Minister to promote and develop? He is right to say that we are dealing with the consequences of failure with respect to Syria. It is an incredibly difficult situation, because not only do we have the terrorisation of people by ISIL, but Assad has been the recruiting sergeant for ISIL because of the butchery of his own people. What we must not do is give up on the idea of a transition for Syria; we need to keep working towards that.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

In the summer of 1939, my parents took into our home a young Jewish girl, Johanna, who had arrived in Leeds on the Kindertransport. Her sister and others had arrived on the same Kindertransport, and Neville Chamberlain facilitated the arrival of these young children more than this Government are facilitating such things now. It is sad that this Government are doing less than Neville Chamberlain did. The right hon. Gentleman says that he is going to take in 20,000 refugees over five years. The Germans took in 10,000 on one day. What kind of comparison is that? I recognise the financial problems and the assimilation problems, but if we do not do it now, we will live to regret it for the rest of our lives. The message from my constituents, in a huge postbag and at every event I attended in my constituency over the weekend, is: “Let them in! We’ll welcome them. We’ll do what the Germans did. Let’s get on with it!”

[The Prime Minister]

I believe that the 20,000 Syrian refugees—many of whom will be children—that we will take directly from the Syrian refugee camps are the modern equivalent of the Kindertransport, and this country should be proud of that. At the same time, let us recognise that when it comes to those Syrian refugee camps, Britain is spending more than France, Germany and Italy. On our aid budget, we all sat around the table and promised 0.7% of GDP, but how many major countries have actually kept their promises? This one has.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 7th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can absolutely confirm to the House that that chapel will be preserved for future generations, as we have always recognised its importance and its rich heritage. I think it possible that of all the great moments in British history, the Battle of Britain 1940 stands out as one of the most important times that there have been. So we will protect the chapel, and will do all that we can to protect it for future generations.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister take action immediately to clear up the shambles at the Home Office? A constituent of mine who applied for a fast-track passport before Christmas was promised that it would be delivered to him by courier on new year’s eve, but has still not received it. As a result, he has had to cancel a trip that he was due to make yesterday, at great personal cost and great damage to his personal life. Will the Prime Minister ensure that that man is able to travel this week, and will he clear up this mess?

[The Prime Minister]

I shall be happy to look at the individual case that the right hon. Gentleman raises. However, I think that we have made huge strides in dealing with potential passport backlogs, and I think that the Home Secretary is doing a fantastic job.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 26th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend will obviously have to wait for the Chancellor to make his autumn statement but, as I said a moment ago, we have been able to put more money into the NHS and to ensure that the NHS and social care are working better together, for instance with our Better Care fund, because we have a strong economy that can deliver those resources. I am absolutely committed to ensuring that we safeguard and improve our NHS, and that means everything to do with our NHS, including the mental health services she mentioned.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister condemn the new Israeli Government Bill that removes what are defined as national rights from all Israeli citizens who are not Jews, makes Hebrew the only national language and has been denounced by the Israeli Attorney-General as causing a

“deterioration of the democratic characteristic of the state”?

Will he make it clear that the statutory, repressive removal of citizenship rights on the basis of religion will turn Israel into an apartheid state?

[The Prime Minister]

One of the reasons I am such a strong supporter of Israel is that it is a country that has given rights and democracy to its people, and it is very important that that continues. When we look across the region and at the indexes of freedom, we see that Israel is one of the few countries that tick the boxes for freedom, and it is very important that it continues to do so.

EU Council, Security and Middle East

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 1st September 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, which shows exactly why we need to discuss and examine this issue further. The reason why everyone will want us to examine this is that it absolutely sticks in the craw that someone can go from this country to Syria, declare jihad, make all sorts of plans to start doing us damage and then contemplate returning to Britain having declared their allegiance to another state. That is the problem that we need to address, and my hon. Friend will be useful in doing so.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that when he made his previous statement on Gaza, I said that the Israelis could kill but they could not win. Seven weeks later, 2,000 Palestinians, including 500 children, have been killed by the Israelis and an enormous amount of physical damage has been inflicted that makes life in the Gaza strip next to impossible. What will the Government do to prevent another such attack, which will come at some time or another if not stopped, and will he now impose an arms ban on Israel?

[The Prime Minister]

What we must do is convince everyone that it is worth while getting round the table to find a negotiated solution to the fundamental underlying issue of the need for a Palestinian state. To do that, we must persuade the Israelis to make it a greater priority and to understand that that would be the true route to security. We also need to persuade the Palestinians and those who have supported Hamas that terrorist attacks and rocket attacks on Israel will not bring Palestinian statehood closer.

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, we would urge every country to act in a way that is proportionate and consistent with international law. We believe in those norms of international law and uphold them ourselves, but it is worth putting ourselves for a minute in the shoes of the Israeli people who have suffered these rocket attacks and who quite sensibly ask their Government to take action to try to prevent them in the future.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman condemn outright the Israeli massacre over the weekend at Shujai’iya of 67 Palestinian innocents whom Netanyahu has obscenely described as “telegenically dead”, together with the four innocent people killed today by the Israeli direct hit on the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades’ hospital? Will he also increase the Government’s valuable aid to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency? Some 67,000 Palestinians have fled to its refuge centres, but they are running out of water and money to feed them. While in no way condoning the actions of Hamas, I ask him to point out to Netanyahu, on the evidence of the two previous Israeli attacks on Gaza, that he can kill, but he cannot win.

[The Prime Minister]

First, I say to the right hon. Gentleman that we are increasing our funding for UNRWA to the tune of £2 million, as the International Development Secretary made clear this morning, and, as he knows, we are a significant donor to the Palestinian Authority and the humanitarian causes that need to be supported in the Palestinian Territories, and will continue to be. We do not support the idea that it is acceptable to have civilian casualties, and we would condemn the deliberate targeting of civilians—it is contrary to international law—but I repeat what I have already said: we have urged the Israelis to demonstrate restraint, to avoid civilian casualties and to find ways to bring this to an end, but the fastest way this can come to an end is for Hamas to stop firing rockets.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 19th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman brings the House together in his usual way. What I am sure we can agree on is that it has been an excellent move by a Conservative Chancellor in a coalition Government to make sure that you do not pay tax on the first £10,000 of income you earn. That benefits people earning all the way up to £100,000. It is worth, so far, more than £700 to a typical income tax payer and it is highly worth while, and I look forward to hearing what the Chancellor has to say.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this week I received from a Palestinian friend an e-mail telling me that the Israelis assassinated a friend in his house and that

“another brother of a friend has been shot dead by the army. So we spent our time from one funeral to another”?

When the right hon. Gentleman was in Israel last week, did he raise with Netanyahu this constant stream of killing of innocent Palestinians by the Israelis, and what is he going to do about it?

[The Prime Minister]

I did not raise that specific case, which the right hon. Gentleman quite rightly raises in the House today, but I did raise with the Israeli Prime Minister the importance of how the Israelis behave in the west bank and elsewhere, and I raised the issue of settlements, which I believe are unacceptable and need to stop.

I also strongly supported both the Israeli Prime Minister and the Palestinian President in their efforts to find a peace. There is a prospect and an opportunity now, because the Americans are leading a set of talks that could lead to a framework document being agreed, and it is in everyone’s interest to put all the pressure we can on both the participants to take part and to get on with these negotiations, which I believe would mean so much to ordinary Israelis, ordinary Palestinians and, indeed, the rest of us.

Afghanistan and EU Council

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think the overall prospects for talks between the Taliban and the High Peace Council—the right body in Afghanistan to hold these talks—are good. We have to recognise, however, that the way in which the Doha office was established, when it advertised itself as the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan, has caused a setback, and that is rightly deeply unpopular in Afghanistan. As I discussed with President Karzai, the sense is that it is in the interests of Afghanistan for all Afghans to see a Government and a future in which they can have confidence and for the Taliban to lay down their arms and stop fighting. That is in their interests, so although there has been a setback, the underlying logic of what needs to happen is still there.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

When the right hon. Gentleman was in Islamabad, did he discuss with our high commissioner the operation of the entry clearance office, which is currently preventing the mother of a constituent of mine who is dying of cancer from visiting him in Manchester before he dies? Did he discuss with Nawaz Sharif the American drone attacks on Pakistan, which violate Pakistan’s sovereignty, kill very large numbers of innocent people and are a war crime, violating international law?

[The Prime Minister]

I did not discuss any specific cases with our high commissioner, but I did discuss with him the important operations of our visa processing and the very important work that he does. I think this is a good moment for me to pay tribute to our high commissioner and to his hard-working staff.

As for the second issue raised by the right hon. Gentleman, nothing was off the table during my discussions with Nawaz Sharif. I think that the right approach is to maintain a very tough security response to terrorism. There is no doubt that the presence of al-Qaeda in both Afghanistan and Pakistan has been radically reduced in recent years and that that has made us safer here in the United Kingdom, but we must ensure that such reductions are accompanied by the proper combating of terrorism in all its forms, which means ensuring that we deal with the underlying narrative on which the terrorists depend. It is with that combined approach that we will succeed.

Leveson Inquiry

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Time after time we were told that my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt) was backing the bid, not adjudicating on the bid. All sorts of allegations and smears were made. It is important that colleagues can read the report and see that he took the right decisions in the right way.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

I declare an interest as someone who was a Fleet street staff journalist for 10 years. As such, I am instinctively opposed to statutory regulation of the press. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if that Rubicon, as he says, is not to be crossed, it will be up to the press to accept the recommendations of Leveson, to do that in full, to do that fast and to do that with all the proprietors involved? What happens next will of course be a matter for this House and the political parties, but above all it is a matter for the press.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The pressure should be on the press to take the steps that everybody now knows are necessary and that are set out in huge detail in the report. That is the best way to avoid the statutory regulation that Leveson does not want to see, that no one in this House should want to see, and that would make our country less free. He speaks very clearly about that issue.

G20 Summit

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 25th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It was the Conservative Opposition who warned that it was a bad decision to allow unencumbered access to British labour markets from countries such as Poland. We well remember being told, “You can’t talk about these things”, that it is somehow racist to discuss immigration, and all the rest of it. Year after year we had to put up with that nonsense, and to get a half-baked apology now is simply not good enough.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

It was interesting to see that the Prime Minister treats correspondence from the President of Argentina in the same way as he treats correspondence from Members of the House. Will he make it clear beyond any equivocation that not only is the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands not open for negotiation, but it is not open for discussion in any forum whatever, and that the wishes of the people of the Falklands to remain British will prevail?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly give the right hon. Gentleman that assurance. The referendum of the Falkland islanders will help us to deliver that in practice as well as in theory. Let me say to the right hon. Gentleman that if he writes me a letter, I shall try to respond to it very speedily.

G8 and NATO Summits

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. When I say “active monetary policy”, I do not simply mean a central bank that engages in quantitative easing, or whatever. We need to ensure that all the monetary institutions of a country, including its banks, are properly capitalised and properly working. Around Europe, there is a lot of work that needs to be done on that.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

With regard to the Prime Minister’s discussion with the President of Pakistan, does he deplore Barack Obama’s offensive discourtesy towards the President, the sovereignty of whose country the United States has violated with deadly effect? Will he confirm that Britain stands shoulder to shoulder with our Commonwealth partner in defying American colonialism?

[The Prime Minister]

I have to say that I would not put it like that. We need to work very closely with our American allies, within our special relationship, to try to deal with the terrorism that has come out of Afghanistan and is still coming out of parts of Pakistan. It is in our national interest to do that, but I always urge all international friends and partners to show patience and understanding with Pakistan because it is the biggest victim of terror of all. It has complex politics, and it needs to be given the space to resolve some of those issues. It also needs to know that its friends, such as Britain, will not leave it after the Afghan conflict is over, and that we are there for long-term partnership, friendship and support.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I was wondering where my hon. Friend was going with that for a minute or two, but she is right. It is a leap year, a very special day, when all sorts of things can happen—all sorts of possibilities. The key thing is that through both our tax system and our welfare system we should be encouraging families to come together and stay together, and celebrating commitment.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Is the Prime Minister aware that the entry clearance office in Abu Dhabi has rejected an application by Mrs Maqsood Jan to come from Pakistan to attend her granddaughter’s wedding in Manchester? Would the right hon. Gentleman specify what kind of employment a 72-year-old woman who does not speak English and has never left Pakistan is liable to obtain in my constituency, where unemployment is 10.6%? Will he overrule this barmy decision and allow Mrs Jan the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to attend her granddaughter’s wedding? If the Home Secretary has said—[Interruption.]

[Sir Gerald Kaufman]

I am; I am bringing it to an end. If the Home Secretary has whispered to the Prime Minister that Mrs Jan can appeal, I should add that the wedding is on 2 April and the appeal procedure is too slow to make that possible.

[The Prime Minister]

To answer the right hon. Gentleman very directly, I was not aware of the individual case. There are hundreds of thousands of people who travel between Pakistan and Britain every year. We must have tough controls to prevent the abuse of our immigration system, but I suggest that he takes up the case individually with my hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration, who has a superb grip on these issues and I am sure will be able to give him some satisfaction.

European Council

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

As a Member who voted for the implementation of Security Council resolution 1973, and who as shadow Foreign Secretary refused to meet Gaddafi when he invited me to go to Libya to collect financial compensation—blood money—for the family of WPC Fletcher, may I state my disgust and revulsion at the murder, and the nature of the killing, of Gaddafi? May I ask the Prime Minister to emphasise to the national transitional council that the future for democracy in Libya lies in reconciliation, not revenge?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I can announce to the House that Chairman Jalil, leader of the national transitional council, has announced today that there will be an inquiry into the circumstances of Colonel Gaddafi’s death. Clearly, we wanted him to face justice. That is what should have happened, and it is important that that inquiry goes ahead. However, I do not stand back for one second from what I said in my statement—that because the Gaddafi era is over and he is gone, the Libyan people, who genuinely feared that as long as there was a prospect of his coming back there was a difficulty in building their future, can now get on with that future.

Public Disorder

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

It is undeniable that these criminals who looted, stole, rioted and caused intolerable damage to their victims must be dealt with by the police and the justice system. I ask the Prime Minister, do we regard these people, however abject their acts, as irreclaimable to society, at great cost to the police, the justice system and the prison system, or will we have positive policies to try, if at all possible, to reclaim them for society?

[The Prime Minister]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that we must never write people off, however bad they are. We must try to build a stronger society in which we can turn people’s lives around. One of the lessons from this is that too many people have been left for too long and we need much earlier intervention. This is something that Members from all parts of the House have spoken about. When we see children going wrong, we must intervene earlier rather than leaving them to fall out of school and lapse into a life of criminality.

UN Security Council Resolution (Libya)

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Friday 18th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right to draw the House’s attention to what Gaddafi has said. He has said chilling words about what he plans to do to his own country and people, and he must be stopped. I too heard the reported remarks about civilian aircraft. Be in no doubt that, even aside from a UN Security Council resolution, every country has the right under international law to self-defence—a right that could be exercised in full.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman agree that the merit of the operation to liberate Kuwait in 1991 was that it was finite and established order, and that the disaster of the war in Iraq in 2003 was that after it was won, efforts were made by outsiders to install a Government, which resulted in chaos and terrorism? Will he assure the House that those lessons have been learned?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely give the right hon. Gentleman that assurance. It seems to me that we have to learn both the lessons of Iraq, by proceeding with the maximum Arab support and being very clear that there will be no army of occupation, and the lessons of Bosnia and not stand aside and witness a slaughter. It falls to Cabinets and Governments at this time, though, to recognise that no two situations are exactly alike. This is not Iraq; it is not Bosnia; it is not Lebanon; it is unique and different. We have to respond to it and use the right judgment to try to get our response correct. That is what this Government are determined to do, and as I have said, we are determined to take as many people with us as possible.

Japan and the Middle East

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, everyone should have the right to peaceful protest. In Bahrain, the King and the Crown Prince have been making efforts to try to have movement towards a more open and democratic society. Of course people will have debates about whether they are going far enough or fast enough, but they have made that effort. Bahrain obviously has the difficulty of quite a severe divide between some Sunni and Shi’a, which can make the situation more difficult, but I hope that they keep going down that path of reform, and not repression, which is the right track for these countries to take.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman join me in condemning utterly the barbaric slaughter inflicted on the Fogel family in a west bank settlement over the weekend? Does he agree that no response to that savagery could be more futile than the building of further settlements, and that the only way to stop this useless slaughter of innocent people—both Jews and Palestinians—is for Israel to sit down and talk?

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right. Like others, I read about that case over the weekend and found what happened extremely disturbing. Anyone who has been to Jerusalem and seen the settlement building, particularly around east Jerusalem, can understand why the Palestinians feel so strongly about building on their land. There is a danger of the two-state solution being built away if we are not careful. That is why this Government have always taken a strong view about the settlements.

Libya and the Middle East

Debate between Gerald Kaufman and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 28th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a good point that highlights the issues that I raised earlier. It was right to restore relations with Libya, but parameters and judgment needed to be brought to bear as well.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

In congratulating the right hon. Gentleman on the vote cast by the United Kingdom at the Security Council on Israeli settlements, may I ask whether he, like Chancellor Merkel, received a reproachful telephone call from Netanyahu, and if so did he, like Chancellor Merkel, reply that he—Netanyahu—is the principal obstacle to negotiations and that he must get on and negotiate?

[The Prime Minister]

As it happens, I did not, on this occasion, get a reproachful phone call from Prime Minister Netanyahu. But if I had done, I am, for once, in full agreement with the right hon. Gentleman, and I am sure that I would have responded robustly in the way that he has suggested.