Public Disorder

Gerald Kaufman Excerpts

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary, in her speech, said that the tide has turned. I wish that she was right, because the fact is that the rioting of the past few days has abated, partly due to excellent police action and partly due to the weather, but it could come back at any time and under any pretext, so we must prepare for that and prepare to change the context in which the rioting took place.

Of course, as the Prime Minister said, teachers have a role, but it is not their principal role; of course, parents have a fundamental role, but many of the young people who have behaved in such a dreadful manner over the past few days come from dysfunctional families, perhaps with single parents, perhaps with a mother or a father who is unable to help because of their own personal problems; and, of course, the police have their role, and in our city of Manchester we have outstandingly good police, for which we are grateful. But that is not enough.

In Manchester, this is not our first experience of urban rioting. Thirty years ago there was rioting in Toxteth in Liverpool as well as in Moss Side, adjacent to my constituency. At that time, Michael Heseltine was Secretary of State for the Environment, I was his shadow, and we discussed the issues. Michael Heseltine realised and understood that it was a question not only of criminality, but of urban and social regeneration. He went to Liverpool, lived there for three weeks and came back with plans for urban and social regeneration.

We condemn the people who have committed those crimes over the past few days, but, until the context in which their lives are lived is changed, condemning them will not stop them or others like them doing it again. To do so, we need—by the Government and by the rest of us—social reclamation projects that bring people into society in order to be part of society.

We in my constituency, for example, have a project called RECLAIM, in which young people from troubled homes and young people who have been offenders are mentored, made active, given jobs, given a voice and given a social conscience—and it works. I urge the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and the Secretary of State for Education to come to Manchester and to look at RECLAIM to see how kids who have gone wrong or who might go wrong can be put on the right path, made useful members of society and gain control of their own decisions and destiny.

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

I happened to be watching events the other night with my 87-year-old grandfather, who was born into abject poverty—seven living in a two-bedroom terrace cottage with an outside loo that was a hole in the garden. I turned to him and said, “Did you ever think of rioting? Did you ever think of stealing the latest gadget?” and he said, “No.” Why is it that in the 1930s poverty was not an excuse for poor behaviour, but apparently in the 21st century it is?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Gerald Kaufman]

The hon. Gentleman just does not understand. The overwhelming majority of people living in poverty and deprivation and in dysfunctional homes will not commit crimes or turn antisocial, but some will. There is no point in pretending that because most will not, all will not.

We have to do something about this because our society is being damaged. I represent a deprived constituency where people are proud of the area in which they live. I want to make everybody who lives in my constituency, in our cities and in our country proud, but to do that we have to do the kind of things that RECLAIM is doing in Manchester. We have to ensure that people understand that they have a choice. Wanting to steal does not mean that one has to steal. Wanting some commercial object does not mean that one has to go out and take it under the guise of a social protest. We have to do these things because there is no point in simply having a blanket condemnation of young people who go wrong. Our job and our responsibility is not simply to punish them when they go wrong, but to try to ensure that they do not go wrong again and that others do not follow them. We must seize this moment. We have not got much time, but we can make this society work better.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—