Exiting the EU: Businesses in Wales

Debate between Gerald Jones and Christina Rees

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) on securing his first Westminster Hall debate on this important subject and on the powerful case he made. He was right to underline the huge uncertainty for businesses in Wales at the moment and the role that the Welsh Government have played in utilising EU funds to support jobs in Wales through initiatives such as Jobs Growth Wales, which, as he outlined, will lead to 8,955 new job opportunities. He also highlighted the work to support initiatives such as the south Wales metro, Horizon 2020 and the support the Welsh Government have given to universities.

We have heard from a number of hon. Members from across Wales, who have made clear the risks of our departure from the EU for businesses in their constituencies. It is really positive to see the number of constituencies represented by Opposition Members—my hon. Friends the Members for Ogmore, for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas), for Swansea West (Geraint Davies), for Caerphilly (Wayne David), for Neath (Christina Rees), for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock), for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) and for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), as well as my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) and the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts). That is in complete contrast with the lack of Members on the Government Benches, which I hope is not an indication of their view on businesses in Wales.

It is important that we highlight the risk of the Government’s lack of certainty and clarity about their post-exit plans and the huge uncertainty that is causing businesses. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham underlined, businesses and investors hate uncertainty, yet at the moment that is all we have from this Government. That reflects the views expressed in discussions that I have had with businesses in my constituency of Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney.

My hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly highlighted the view of Norgine in Hengoed in his constituency and its hope for a soft Brexit. That message is repeated by businesses across Wales.

My hon. Friend the Member for Alyn and Deeside highlighted the work that Airbus does, the various plants that it has across Europe and the need for flexibility to travel. When I met Airbus representatives some weeks ago, they talked about workers who may go to European plants for two hours, two days or even two weeks—it is very uncertain, so there is a need for flexibility.

My hon. Friends the Members for Swansea West and for Aberavon highlighted the role that universities play and particularly research and development, the risk to future funding and the uncertainty that that is causing at the moment. My hon. Friend the Member for Neath highlighted the absence of a plan for exiting the EU and the uncertainty that that is causing for business.

[Christina Rees]

Does my hon. Friend agree that once article 50 is triggered, all the MEPs will be involved in the negotiations because they will have to have a vote at the end of the negotiations to ratify the proposal before it goes to the European Council to be ratified, so it would be fair for all Members of this House to be involved in the negotiations as well?

[Gerald Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. It underlines the position that we are in: we have no direction from the Government. They say that Brexit means Brexit and they are not willing to give a running commentary on what is happening. We understand that up to a point, but we are not asking for a running commentary. As hon. Members know, we are asking for the UK Government’s direction of travel, but unfortunately that has not been forthcoming.

I pay tribute to the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth on the work of the Wales MEP Derek Vaughan, who continues to stand up and speak out for Wales. I also agree with my hon. Friend’s comments on the Welsh Government continuing to promote Wales and secure funding for infrastructure projects. We heard just today the announcement about a range of large-scale infrastructure projects taking place across Wales.

The last time that I spoke in a Westminster Hall debate from the Front Bench, I said:

“The Government have a clear and pressing duty to reduce…uncertainty. We have all heard of investment decisions that have been delayed and of businesses that are genuinely worried for their futures. People voted to leave, but they did not vote to damage our economy, so the Government need to step up and set out their plans more clearly to deliver the clarity and business confidence we so badly need.”—[Official Report, 25 October 2016; Vol. 616, c. 40WH.]

I still stand by every word of that today. Despite the time that has passed, neither the Minister nor the Government have done anything to give businesses any clarity or certainty, leaving people, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore so clearly pointed out, in the dark about their futures, their careers and their businesses.

At the recent Welsh questions, my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) quite reasonably asked the Minister:

“Can he tell us whether his officials have made any estimate of how many jobs in Wales will be lost if the UK leaves the single market and what he and his Government are planning to do about it?”

We are elected to Parliament to represent our constituencies and their interests. As the Opposition, it is our democratic duty to scrutinise and challenge the Government. That was not an unfair, partisan or trick question from my hon. Friend. It was asking what assessment the Minister’s Department has made of the biggest issue facing our country since the second world war and what plans the Government have to help mitigate the negative effects. However, the Minister replied:

“I am somewhat disturbed by the hon. Lady’s comments. Time and again, I hear Opposition parties talking down the Welsh economy.”—[Official Report, 30 November 2016; Vol. 617, c. 1509-1510.]

That was not an appropriate response. In fact, it was quite shameful, and it does a disservice to the office that the Minister holds not to engage with that as a genuine question.

If the Government are planning to offer support to protect jobs, businesses in Wales need to know what that package will look like and when it will come. So far, this has been a Government of smoke and mirrors, confusion and obstinacy. Whether through ignorance or incompetence, they will not give a straight answer to the simplest of questions.

Furthermore, in a written question, the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jo Stevens), asked what estimate the Secretary of State has made of the economic value to Wales of the UK’s membership of the single market. However, again, rather than answering the question, which might help to highlight what the impact of a hard Brexit could be on Wales, he said:

“I recognise many businesses in Wales trade with the single market”.

Given the significant impact that the EU exit could have on Wales and, more importantly, the impact that the wrong deal could have on our country, that excuse for an answer is completely unacceptable. Is it asking so much for the Minister to share with us the assessment that he has made of the biggest challenge facing our country? Will he today put on the record the Government’s assessment of the economic value to Wales of the UK’s membership of the single market?

My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central also asked at the last Welsh questions whether Ministers would commit to supporting jobs at the Ford plant in Bridgend post 2020 by offering Ford the same post-Brexit guarantee as the Government recently gave its competitor, Nissan. It is vital for the future of that site and the jobs that are linked to it through the supply chain, as we have heard this afternoon, that post Brexit, it is able to operate on the same terms as competitors such as Nissan. In refusing to give guarantees to Ford, the Secretary of State is offering businesses in Wales a worse deal than those in Scotland or Northern Ireland. We know that because his Cabinet colleagues, the Secretaries of State for Scotland and for Northern Ireland, committed at the Dispatch Box to offering the same protections for businesses in their respective countries as those offered to businesses in England. Is Wales getting a worse deal than Northern Ireland and Scotland? If so, can the Minister tell us why? If not, why will he not guarantee Ford the same deal as its competitors? It looks like a game of playing favourites. My right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn highlighted the support needed for industries such as the automotive industry.

Labour Members believe that a modern industrial strategy for Wales should be more than just picking winners from Whitehall. Companies in Wales should get at least the same deal from the Westminster Government as companies in England. If the Minister will not give that commitment to Ford, perhaps he will consider another major company in Wales, one of the biggest employers and investors—Airbus. It, too, needs to know what the future looks like. We need a straight answer from the Minister. Will Airbus get the same deal from the Government as Nissan? Airbus spends £4 billion with suppliers, supporting approximately 110,000 jobs. Millions of pounds and hundreds of thousands of jobs are on the line, so we need answers from the Minister. Will he offer a deal and protect the future of 100,000 jobs in Wales?

I have said this previously, but for the avoidance of doubt I will repeat it. Labour respects the result of the referendum, but we must get the best deal for people and businesses in Wales from the coming negotiations, and we will get that only if the Government provide some clarity on what their strategy is and what businesses can expect. It is essential that the UK Government work closely with the Welsh Government and the other devolved Administrations in preparing for the EU exit. They owe that to the businesses and people of Wales. I look forward to some clarity from the Minister on what he and the Government are doing to provide any reassurance to the people and businesses of Wales.

Leaving the EU: Wales

Debate between Gerald Jones and Christina Rees

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Gerald Jones]

As I mentioned earlier, it is important that we respect the result, but it is also important that we ensure we get the best deal for Wales and for the UK in the coming negotiations. Despite the many challenges ahead, we must ensure that Wales has a positive voice throughout the negotiations to secure the best possible outcome. It is essential that the UK Government work closely with the Welsh Government and other devolved Administrations to ensure that their negotiating strategy works for the whole of the UK, not just for England.

The Joint Ministerial Committee met yesterday, although clarity was lacking on the current position and on what future discussions will look like. As we begin the process of exiting the EU, Wales has several priorities. We must prioritise the protection of jobs and ensure business confidence in the aftermath of the referendum. Full and unfettered access to the EU single market is crucial for Wales. Welsh businesses currently benefit from our trading relationship with the EU. If we were to leave the single market, and if tariffs were to be imposed on Welsh goods, that could have a crushing impact on our manufacturing and agricultural sectors. We need certainty about funding for current and future EU programmes.

The First Minister of Wales sought an urgent guarantee, immediately following the referendum, that Wales would not lose a single penny of EU funding up to the end of the EU financial perspective, running until 2020. This month the Treasury pledged to extend the guaranteed funding for all projects agreed before the UK leaves the EU. However, it has not given any commitment to replace the funding, further into the future, that we would reasonably have expected to receive if the UK were to remain in the EU. That is vital to our universities and agricultural businesses. Wales currently receives £650 million in EU funding, in particular through the common agricultural policy and structural funding. Campaigners for leave said that Wales would not lose a single penny in European funding, and we will hold them to that promise.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon outlined, the case for revision of the Barnett formula arrangements for Wales is now even stronger, to ensure fair funding for Wales during and after the current EU programmes. The Wales Bill provides an important opportunity to consider future funding arrangements for Wales. I urge the Government to reconsider their opposition to delivering a much needed fiscal framework to Wales as part of the Bill, and perhaps the Minister will comment on that.

It is my view, and the view of my party, that EU citizens working and living in Wales now should be able to remain here after the UK’s exit from the EU. EU citizens should not be used as bargaining chips in the negotiations, and we must stamp out the unacceptable abuse that has, sadly, risen since the referendum result.

[Christina Rees]

Since the referendum the UK Government have said little more than “Brexit means Brexit,” but Ministers have alluded to a hard Brexit. Will my hon. Friend agree with the Welsh Labour MEP Derek Vaughan who has said that as a result of that stance the EU has withdrawn behind its lines, and we will end up with a hard Brexit?

[Gerald Jones]

I do indeed agree. As I said in my speech, the people of Wales and the UK voted to leave but not to reduce public services. They certainly did not vote for a hard Brexit. It is important to have the clarity that we need as we go forward. It is essential that we remain outward looking, internationalist and pro-business. We require that we remain committed to fairness and opportunity for all, and I look forward to some reassurances, perhaps, from the Minister this morning.

In-work Poverty

Debate between Gerald Jones and Christina Rees

Thursday 28th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr Turner, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) on securing this important debate.

It is hard to justify why so many people live in poverty in a country as wealthy as the UK. I believe that one of the key explanations is that the welfare state, designed to protect us all against risks such as unemployment, illness and old age, simply fails to provide an adequate income for families and others when they are unable to support themselves fully.

It is truly shocking that in 2016, in-work poverty is growing. In some areas, the number of working households in poverty is greater than the number of non-working households. Major factors appear to be low pay and part-time work, and zero-hours contracts are also a major contributory factor.

[Christina Rees]

It was remiss of me not to say in my earlier intervention what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner.

Does my hon. Friend agree that although responsibility for tackling in-work poverty in Wales is a devolved issue, the levers for tackling it lie mainly with the UK Government? He mentioned zero-hours contracts, but I add to that the minimum wage, welfare benefits and, of course, the tax system.

[Gerald Jones]

I could not agree more. Both the Welsh Government and local government have tried to mitigate those circumstances, but the major levers lie here at Westminster.