Surplus Target and Corporation Tax

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Monday 4th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will make a statement on proposals regarding the Government’s surplus target and plans to further cut corporation tax.

[The First Secretary of State and Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne)]

In the past week, I have sought to be realistic with the British people about the economic challenges we now face but to mix that realism with reassurance that we can rise to those challenges. The financial contingency plans that the Governor of the Bank of England and I put in place have proved effective to date. Financial markets have adjusted, but I can report today that, although we remain vigilant, they have shown no signs of disorder. We must now respond to developments in the real economy, which will require a supreme national effort.

First, we must look to support demand and ensure that credit flows freely in our economy. The Governor of the Bank of England said on Friday that

“some monetary policy easing will likely be required over the summer”.

Thanks to the reforms that I introduced, the independent Bank of England has the tools that it needs to act against the cycle and support lending in the economy. The Financial Policy Committee will publish its decisions tomorrow, and we stand ready in the Treasury to act in concert with the Bank of England should more need to be done to support funding for lending.

The second part of our national effort must be to maintain Britain’s fiscal credibility. Eight years ago, people questioned Britain’s ability to pay its way in the world; eight years later, British gilts are seen as a safe haven and funding costs have fallen to record lows. We should maintain the fiscal consolidation measures that we have announced. However, our rules were always explicit that, in the face of what the fiscal charter calls a “significant negative shock”, we should allow the automatic stabilisers to operate, and with the consensus of economic forecasters now lowering the forecast growth for the UK next year—from close to 2% before the referendum to 0.4% now—that is what we will do. We must be realistic that the target for a surplus is unlikely to be achieved in 2019-20. The Office for Budget Responsibility will conduct a formal assessment when it produces a new independent forecast in the autumn, and then we will have a clear idea of what additional measures are required to maintain fiscal credibility.

Thirdly, we need to broadcast loud and clear the message that Britain remains the best place in the world to do business. In the past six years, we have reduced Britain’s corporation tax rate from 28% to 20% today, and 17% in the future. I did that at the same time as taking difficult decisions elsewhere to balance the books. In my view, the strongest signal we could send to the world that Britain, after the referendum, is open to the world and ready to do business would be to cut corporation tax still further. We should aim for a rate of 15% and preferably lower, because if we are pro-business, we are pro-jobs, pro-living standards and pro-working people.

Fourthly, the referendum result revealed a deep-seated feeling of disfranchisement in too many of our communities, especially in the midlands and the north of England. As I said in Manchester on Friday, the northern powerhouse is the right response and we need to redouble our efforts with elected mayors and new transport infrastructure. In my view, once both parties have determined who their leader should be, we should then get on and build a new runway in the south-east of England, because we cannot be open to the world if we cannot fly there.

Fifthly and finally, while we must seek with our European neighbours the best possible terms of trade in goods and services, including financial services, now is the time also to redouble our efforts to promote trade with the rest of the world. I have spoken to my US counterparts. Later this month, I will be travelling to China to build on that important new partnership.

To conclude, this is a blueprint to meet our economic challenge. Nothing positive will come from looking back in anger. We must lift our eyes to the horizon ahead and make the best of what is to come.

[John McDonnell]

I would like to thank the Chancellor for his response. I think it is important that, as in the Opposition day debate last week, we set the tone of our response at the level of the national interest and take care to avoid making any statements that would adversely impact on fragile markets.

I have to say, however, that a lack of planning for a leave vote is becoming evident across all policy areas. Instead of a clear plan of action, we have so far had a series of ad hoc statements and announcements, including the grateful abandonment of the “Brexit Budget”, which was to increase the sharply the level of austerity being applied. The fiscal surplus target has been abandoned and today the Chancellor has announced planned reductions in the headline rate of corporation tax.

Rather than ad hoc announcements, we need a framework for economic decision making. Previously, the Government sought to do that with the fiscal charter, which was passed into law last autumn despite Labour opposition. May I ask the Chancellor now, since he is no longer pursuing the fiscal surplus target, if the charter is also to be abandoned? Will he be putting a motion to repeal the law before this House? Will he be seeking to place a new fiscal rule on a similar basis in legislation?

The Chancellor has announced today that he will redouble his efforts to invest in the northern powerhouse. Of course the details of that are to be decided, but will he tell the House when he expects to have a detailed programme of investment? What scale of investment should we expect? What areas, and how focused will that investment be? Does he now agree with Labour Members, and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, that a major programme of Government investment is urgently needed? Does he agree with the Home Secretary’s decision not to give a guarantee to existing EU nationals living and working in this country? What will be the economic effects of that? Will he therefore give a more detailed statement to the House on the economic consequences of this decision?

The Chancellor has promised that, while seeking to boost investment, he will be maintaining

“the consolidation that we put in place last year.”

May I ask him for some clarification on this point? Is he now ruling out any further or additional consolidation in light of the leave vote? Regarding the planned cuts to the headline rate of corporation tax, the news has not been well-received by our international partners. Pascal Lamy of the World Trade Organisation has accused the Chancellor of “tax dumping”. He also highlights the risk to future negotiations with the EU.

I want to raise three critical questions on this issue. The Chancellor’s Budget this year suggested that his one percentage point reduction in the headline corporation tax rate will reduce expected revenues by about £1 billion. Does the Chancellor still hold to that estimate? How will the Chancellor pay for any losses in tax revenues from the proposed corporation tax cuts? Who will pay? The evidence from existing cuts to corporation tax is not favourable. Despite year-on-year reductions in the headline rate to the lowest rate in the G7, business investment remains low by G7 standards and has now fallen for two consecutive quarters.

Businesses are sitting on a cash pile of at least £500 billion yet are failing to invest. What assessment has the Chancellor made that a dramatic reduction in the corporation tax rate will have the desired effect on business investment, given the absence of evidence so far?

Finally, we know that the circumstances after the leave vote will be trying and that major forecasters now anticipate the UK possibly entering a recession over the next year. The Chancellor’s fiscal approach has failed and has been steadily abandoned. In the interests of the country, will he now commit to adopting a fiscal approach that allows the flexibility to invest while maintaining fiscal discipline, as the Opposition and now some on his own side are urging?

[Mr Osborne]

When I became Chancellor, there was a question mark over Britain’s ability to pay its way in the world, and that was reflected in our bond yields, but because of our determined effort over the last six years, when we have hit an economic shock, as we have done in the last two weeks, the response has been a fall in bond yields—because people have confidence in the UK.

First on planning, extensive contingency plans were in place to deal with financial market disorder as a result of a leave vote, and the fact that we are not debating that today shows that those plans have been effective—we remain vigilant, but those plans were in place. Secondly, we must now decide on the new model of our relationship with the EU. That was not on the ballot paper and has to be a decision for Parliament. We set out the options for the country in advance of the referendum debate, and now we must have that discussion.

Thirdly on planning, the fiscal charter specifically provides for the impact of a negative shock, which is what we have had, and as a result the rules of the charter apply. As I say, it is unlikely that the surplus will be achieved in 2019-20—although that will be for the OBR formally to assess—and it will then be up to the Chancellor to produce new plans to restore the public finances to surplus and for Parliament to vote on them. We thought about that in advance: it is in the charter that the House voted on.

The hon. Gentleman talked about investment. On Friday, I met the Labour leader of Manchester City Council, Richard Leese. We talked about how we could redouble our efforts to invest in transport across the Pennines and about devolved powers for mayors and the like. That will be part of our response to the disfranchisement that too many of our citizens in the midlands and the north of England have clearly felt.

Finally, the hon. Gentleman also asked about business confidence and the corporation tax cuts. Not only have our corporation tax cuts given us the lowest corporation tax rate of all the advanced economies of the world, but we have seen a 20% increase in receipts from corporation tax—because businesses are coming to this country, growing their businesses in this country and employing 2 million people. The best response we can send to the world to show that we are open for business is to go on reducing business tax.

The Economy and Work

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Thursday 26th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If the verdict of this report is that Labour is on life support, the policies of the shadow Chancellor are “do not resuscitate”. That is what he is condemning the Labour party to.

[John McDonnell]

The right hon. Gentleman is more interested in talking about Labour’s policies than his own. May I remind him that the Tory party just lost every mayoral election in the recent elections?

[Mr Osborne]

Labour had the worst results for an Opposition party in more than 30 years and were reduced to third place in Scotland. And Labour Members think that that is a good set of results! As far as we are concerned, if they want to carry on in this parallel universe that suits us just fine. Meanwhile, we are going to get on with governing the country, improving the economy and reforming our society.

The Government have made huge progress in the past six years. We inherited one of the weakest economies in the advanced world, which had had one of the biggest crashes. It is now one of the fastest-growing economies in the advanced world. We inherited an economy in which millions of people risked losing their job, and hundreds of thousands had. We now have a record number of people in work. We reduced the budget deficit. Our commitment to the northern powerhouse has seen investment projects in the region increase by 120% in the past two years. The verdict of the IMF in its recent examination of the British economy is clear:

“The UK’s recent economic performance has been strong, and considerable progress has been achieved in addressing underlying vulnerabilities.”

It said growth was robust and that

“the unemployment rate has fallen substantially, employment has reached an historic high, the fiscal deficit has been reduced, and financial sector resilience has increased.”

That is the independent verdict of the IMF. In the past, article IVs have been critical of the British economy; now they celebrate what we have achieved.

Many challenges remain, of course, and that is what the economic reforms in the Queen’s Speech will address. There is the immediate crisis in the global steel industry. My right hon. Friend the Business Secretary has just outlined to the House all our efforts to secure jobs here at home. There is a long-term challenge facing western societies of how we increase productivity growth. Improvements in productivity drive lasting improvements in living standards. That is a challenge for all countries. Indeed, the latest figures today from the United States show that productivity is set to fall this year for the first time in 30 years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend, who is an excellent Member of Parliament in the west of England, is right. We get lots of suggestions from the Labour party about what we should do about tax. Labour was in office for 13 years and had Treasury Ministers answering questions for 13 years. Not a single one of these things happened when they were in charge, and no one believes that if Labour were ever back in charge, it would be tough and take action.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Shall we bring the discussion back to today? In the Panama revelations about the behaviour of offshore companies, the Chancellor could not fail to notice the key role played in many of those deals by UK-headquartered banks and UK-based intermediaries. For example, HSBC and its affiliates created more offshore companies through Mossack Fonseca than any other bank. In view of the significant role played by UK banks, will the Chancellor support the new clause tabled by Labour to today’s Bank of England and Financial Services Bill, requiring British financial institutions to record the true owners of any companies or trusts that they work for? Will he also, like me, welcome the proposal from my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field) for a register of the beneficial owners of property in the UK to tackle money laundering, often linked to tax evasion?

[Mr Osborne]

First, we are introducing a register of the beneficial ownership of companies and trusts that need to pay tax, and of course banks must therefore comply with it. Secondly, we are introducing—this will be in the Queen’s Speech—a new criminal offence of facilitating tax evasion, which will apply to the corporate sector in Britain as well. That is in addition to the criminal offence we have introduced that says ignorance is no defence when someone comes before the courts if it is found that they have been evading taxes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Osborne]

Let me join my hon. Friend in congratulating the Claims Consortium Group on its award. I am glad that it has been recognised for its hard work. She is absolutely right that Taunton, and indeed the whole of the south-west, is a great place to do business. We are now investing huge sums in the roads and railways, broadband and housing. Of course, without her I do not think we would be having the A358 upgrade. There is a general lesson, which is that when the south-west votes blue, the voice of the south-west is heard in Parliament.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

It is not just on tax that people are concerned about the behaviour of the super-rich and its impact on the economy. I hope that the Chancellor will join me in welcoming the action taken by shareholders at BP’s annual general meeting against the excessive pay awards recommended by the company’s remuneration committee. The chief executive’s pay in FTSE 100 companies has risen from 50 times the average employee’s in the 1990s to 150 times today. Will he support measures to tackle the remuneration racket? To many, an old boys’ network appears to operate to set each other’s pay. In particular, will he support the widening of shareholder representation and employee representation on remuneration committees?

[Mr Osborne]

It is absolutely right that companies and the shareholders who own those companies think about their pay policy, act responsibly and do not pay excessive amounts to chief executives who do not deserve them. It is this Government who introduced those shareholder votes—they did not exist under previous Labour Governments—and I am glad that shareholders are using the opportunity we have given them. I do not think, if this is what the hon. Gentleman is hinting at, that we should be putting trade unions on company boards, but I do agree that we should make sure that shareholders use all the tools available to them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Only eight weeks ago the Chancellor promised

“an economic recovery for all, felt in all parts of our nation”—[Official Report, 25 November 2015; Vol. 602, c. 1358.]

On the day that the International Monetary Fund warned about the global economy and called on Government to increase their investment spending—something that Labour Members have consistently called for—will he now reconsider his economic plan, and particularly his investment plans?

[Mr Osborne]

The economic plan has seen employment rise and unemployment fall, and it has meant that for the IMF forecasts that the hon. Gentleman mentions, the UK’s forecast has not been changed and remains one of the strongest among all advanced economies in the world. Perhaps I may gently suggest that the hon. Gentleman might want to change his own economic policy, since in the last week he has called for the return of flying pickets, and said that he wants to ban companies from paying dividends and spend billions of pounds on nuclear submarines without any nuclear missiles. Today he said that he is going to tour the country with the former Greek Finance Minister, Mr Varoufakis, to educate us all about economics—the one thing they have in common is that they have both lost their marbles.

[John McDonnell]

If the Chancellor will not reconsider his investment plans, can he at least appreciate how angry the families of steelworkers in south Wales are this morning? They know that when the bankers’ bonuses were threatened, he immediately shot across to Brussels with an army of lawyers to defend them and that he will jump into a helicopter for a Tory fundraiser. It has taken him four months to lift a finger to save steelworkers’ jobs. Does that not prove that he is actually the bankers’ Chancellor?

[Mr Osborne]

We want a successful financial services industry, because hundreds of thousands of people across the country work in it. We also want a successful manufacturing and steel industry, which is why we have taken action to reduce energy costs—something that had not happened previously and which comes into effect today—and why we are taking action to change procurement rules so that the British Government and others are encouraged to buy British steel. Again, that never happened when the Labour party was in office. We are acting internationally to deal with the dumping of Chinese steel. That is what we are doing. Of course it is an incredibly difficult situation, but as the hon. Gentleman knows, and everyone in this House knows, steel jobs are being lost in every single country in the world at the moment. The question is: what can we do nationally to defend and protect our steel industry? We are doing everything we can. If the hon. Gentleman has constructive suggestions, he should put them to me.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I am, of course, always happy to listen to representations from my hon. Friend and others, but we have put a substantial sum of taxpayers’ money into compensating the people who lost out through Equitable Life. We have also ensured, through our payment system, that those payments have been made. That is why the scheme is coming to a close.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

The Chancellor bowed to Labour pressure last week and made a U-turn on tax credits. Although tax credits will not be cut in the new year, as planned, the cuts to universal credit are going ahead in full, so he has not reversed his cuts to family incomes, but just delayed them. I am sure that he has looked at the impact of the changes in detail, so will he tell the House how much a single parent with one child who works part time on the so-called national living wage will lose as a result of his planned changes to universal credit?

[Mr Osborne]

First, let me say that I did not feel a huge amount of Labour pressure last week, but I am happy to see the hon. Gentleman at the Dispatch Box. With universal credit, we are introducing a fundamental improvement to our benefits system. Anyone on tax credits, including in the case that he refers to, who is moved on to universal credit by the Department for Work and Pensions from next year will have their cash awards protected.

[John McDonnell]

Let me explain to the Chancellor exactly what a single parent with one child who works part time on the national living wage will lose. They will lose an average of £2,800 a year as a result of the cuts to universal credit. This was not an autumn statement that supported families, but one that punished them because 2.6 million families will still be worse off by £1,600 on average.

Let me offer the Chancellor another way out. If he reversed the tax giveaways to the wealthy that he announced in his summer Budget, he could reverse fully these cuts to family incomes, while still achieving his fiscal mandate. Will he now address the threat to these families?

[Mr Osborne]

Universal credit is a new benefit where it will always pay to work and it will always pay to expand the number of hours that are worked. It will get rid of a complex series of benefits. That will help working families. Let me make this point, since the gang of four on the other side of the House are chuntering away. The hon. Member for Leeds East (Richard Burgon), who is a shadow Treasury Minister, has not bothered to turn up today because he is marching on the Labour party’s headquarters on a Stop the War march. The truth is that until the shadow Treasury team get their act together in this Chamber, their cases will not be listened to seriously.

Spending Review and Autumn Statement

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell]

I thought this would help the Chancellor. Mao is rarely quoted in this Chamber. The quote is this—[Interruption.] Behave.

“We must learn to do economic work from all who know how, no matter who they are. We must esteem them as teachers, learning from them respectfully and conscientiously. We must not pretend to know when we do not know.”

I thought it would come in handy for the Chancellor in his new relationship.

I am sure that Tory Back Benchers will be under instruction to shoehorn into their speeches at every opportunity references to the mythical long-term economic plan. What we have been presented with today is not an economic plan but a political fix. It is not a plan when you ridiculously commit yourself to unachievable policies and leave yourself no room for manoeuvre. It is not a plan when you sell off every long-term asset you have for short-term gain. It is not a plan when you leave important industries to go to the wall—as we have seen with steel—and it is not a plan when you cut the support for those in work, leaving working families to rely on food banks. It is not a plan when you force councils up and down the land to close the very services that people depend upon, and it is not a plan when you invest so little in skills and infrastructure that our future is put at risk.

Instead what we have seen today is the launch of a manifesto for the Conservative leadership election. Our long-term economic security is being sacrificed for the benefit of one man’s career. I want to tell both the Home Secretary and the hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson), my neighbour, who has now left the Chamber, not to worry. The economic reality that is emerging in our economy will mean that this will be seen as the apex of the Chancellor’s career.

The hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip exudes classical references in his speeches. He will recognise in the Chancellor Icarus the boy who flew too close to the sun and burned and crashed. I fear that for the Chancellor it is all downhill from here. Labour Members will do all we can to ensure that he does not take this economy and our country down with him.

In the end this debate is about what sort of society we want to live in. The Government are systematically dismantling all those aspects of our society that make our community worth living in and celebrating. The Chancellor is not just cutting our services today—he is selling off our future.

But there is an alternative. Our alternative is that we will eliminate the deficit but we will do it fairly and effectively. We will do it by ensuring that we end the tax cuts to the rich, that we tackle tax evasion and avoidance, and that we invest to grow. We will grow our economy on the basis of investment in skills and infrastructure. In addition to becoming the financial centre of Europe, under a Labour Government research in science and technology will enable us to become the technology centre of Europe. That means high skills, high investment and high wages. That is what Labour Members are committed to, and that is what we will secure when we return to office.

[Mr Osborne]

So the shadow Chancellor literally stood at the Dispatch Box and read out from Mao’s little red book. And look—it’s his own personal signed copy. The problem is that half the shadow Cabinet have been sent off for re-education. People treat this Labour leadership as a joke, but they are actually a deadly threat to the economic and national security of this country.

The hon. Gentleman comes here to complain that the deficit and the debt are too high, yet he wants to increase the deficit and the debt and to borrow forever. The problem is that he would borrow in the good times, because he says the country can afford it, and borrow in the bad times because the country could not afford not to. He would always be borrowing money. And how would he be able to afford it? He could afford it because, as he says, his policy

“can readily be funded...through printing money”.

He has said that he would end the Bank of England’s control over interest rates, and he calls it the “people’s quantitative easing”. That is called deficit financing, and it has only been tried in Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe. It would lead to the economic ruin of this country. The Labour leadership’s chief adviser on the economy has said that it would cause a sterling crisis, but that the

“sterling crisis would pass very quickly”.

The shadow Chancellor talks about our support for business and defence industries, but he is a threat to the free market of this country. He wants literally to take control of the commanding heights of the economy. His manifesto is all about nationalising industries. He wants to nationalise the whole banking system of this country—as if the last Labour Government did not do a good enough job by nationalising half of it.

The hon. Gentleman gave a speech at the weekend in which he described his policies as “socialism with an iPad”. The problem is that if the socialists built an iPad, it would weigh a ton, it would be impossible to use and no one would design any programmes for it. It would literally be app-less. And then he has the temerity to get up and talk about defence industry jobs and the police. He has spent his entire career attacking the police forces of this country and calling for them to be disarmed. He has sent me a letter saying that I should fund the Security Service, but it turns out that he has been campaigning to disband MI5. He says he is on the side of the British Army, but he has been sharing platforms with the Irish Republican Army. That is the truth.

Let me end by asking this question. Where is the shadow Chancellor going this evening? He is travelling to Waltham Forest to support the new hard-left members of the constituency Labour party there who are trying to deselect the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy). He is addressing a rally called “Keep up the momentum”—[Interruption.] Well, if he was actually in charge of this country, we know where the momentum would be. It would be in one direction: growth down, jobs down, the security of the country destroyed. In the last three months, he and his friends have taken control of one of the great institutions of our political democracy, the Labour party, and they have brought it to its knees. That is their business, frankly, but Conservative Members are going to make sure that they never get their hands on any of the other institutions of this country, so that we can keep our country safe.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend speaks for her Lincolnshire constituents and for the whole United Kingdom in saying that we want to move to a lower tax, lower welfare, higher wage society. We took such a step in the Budget by increasing the personal allowance to £11,000. We also cut taxes for business, reducing corporation tax and expanding the employment allowance so that smaller businesses could take on more people. It is all about continuing to deliver the record levels of employment we see in our country, and indeed the growing economy that today’s GDP figures confirm.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

May I remind the House that for 3 million people out there who have done everything asked of them and have been bringing up their children and going to work, this is not a constitutional matter? Those people will lose £1,300 a year. Given what happened in the other place last night, may I reassure the Chancellor that if he brings forward proposals to reverse the cuts to tax credits, fairly and in full, he will not be attacked by Opposition Members; indeed, he will be applauded? Can he assure us that whatever proposals he brings forward, he will not support any that an independent assessment demonstrates will cause any child to be forced to live below the poverty line?

[Mr Osborne]

I am, of course, happy to accept any proposals that the hon. Gentleman puts forward—[Interruption.] I am happy to listen to those proposals, but there is a difference between those who say, “We want to make no savings to welfare at all; we want to abolish things like the benefit cap; we are not prepared to make any savings at all to the tax credit system”, and those who say, “Yes, we want to move to a lower welfare society, but we want help in the transition.” If the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) has proposals to help with the transition, of course I will listen to them, but if he is again promoting uncapped welfare and unlimited borrowing, I do not think that the British people will listen to him.

[John McDonnell]

The Chancellor has a choice before him: he can push on with tax giveaways to multinational corporations, and press on with cuts to inheritance tax for the wealthiest few that he announced in the summer Budget, or he can reverse those tax breaks for the few, and instead go for a less excessive surplus target in 2019-20. He can avoid penalising 3 million working families with cuts to tax credits, and stick to his self-imposed charter. Is he prepared to listen to reason on this matter? Is he, or any Government Member, prepared to step up and show some leadership on this issue?

[Mr Osborne]

Let us remember that we inherited a tax system where City bankers were paying lower tax rates than the people who cleaned for them, and multinationals were paying no tax at all. We have introduced a new tax to ensure that multinationals do not divert their profits, and we increased capital gains tax precisely to avoid that abuse of tax rates. We will not take lectures from the Labour party about a fair tax system.

In a way, the hon. Gentleman reveals what he believes, which of course I completely respect. He says that we should abandon our surplus rule and run a deficit forever, but I profoundly disagree with that central judgment. If we borrow forever and are not prepared to make difficult decisions on welfare, we will condemn this country to decline. As a result, people will become unemployed and living standards will fall. That is not the Britain I want to see. We will go on taking difficult decisions to deliver that lower welfare, lower tax, higher wage economy, and this elected House of Commons will continue promoting the economic plan that delivers that.

Greece

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Monday 29th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I will tell my hon. Friend what I have to say about that: we are not going to sign up to some European corporation tax rate.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Is it not ironic that the institutions that turned a blind eye to Greece’s economic situation when it joined the euro and then did nothing about profiteering through speculative lending to the Greeks throughout the period afterwards are the same organisations that are now withdrawing liquidity before the result of the referendum and therefore before the Greek people have made their decision? We are not members of the eurozone, but we are supporters of the International Monetary Fund. Therefore, was the Chancellor consulted about the timing of the withdrawal of liquidity in advance of the referendum and, if so, what view did he express?

[Mr Osborne]

The decision to which the hon. Gentleman refers was taken yesterday by the European Central Bank, and it was a decision not to expand the amount of liquidity assistance provided; it did not cancel the existing liquidity assistance. We are not in the eurozone, of course, so we are not part of the European Central Bank, but there have been close discussions and the European Central Bank is keeping the Bank of England directly informed about the decisions it is making.

Autumn Statement

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Thursday 5th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I want to return the compliment that my hon. Friend has paid me. He has been an outstanding Member of Parliament. His jobs clubs have helped many young people and his offer of work experience is helping people to get on the jobs ladder. The rail measures that we have announced today will help his constituents in Watford. He is right that for Watford, a Labour Government would mean higher unemployment, higher mortgage rates, more borrowing and more debt. That would put Watford and the rest of the country back into the economic mess we are taking them out of.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Whatever one’s view of the past, there are worrying signs that the bonus culture is returning to the City, with large payouts, share distributions and high dividend payments disguising what were formerly bonuses. Will the Chancellor of the Exchequer make it clear that the Government stand ready to introduce further measures to control the bonus culture? I believe that they would have the support of the whole House in doing so.

Autumn Statement

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

We are addressing the problem of basic need, which was ignored by the previous Government. I know in places such as my hon. Friend’s constituency, the problem is acute. Let me write to her about the specific impact on her constituency and how many additional places the investment will create in the surrounding area.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

In my constituency, religious and community organisations are now providing food parcels to poor families. At the same time, we are seeing executive pay and remuneration soar. There was nothing in the Budget statement that addressed executive pay or remuneration. Are the Government going to bring forward some controls to tackle that obscene inequality?

[Mr Osborne]

I know that the previous Government were

“intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich”.

We are introducing transparency in pay. We are bringing regulations before the House to force banks to disclose the incomes of their eight highest paid employees. We are also consulting on high pay more generally. We have introduced the bank levy, which the previous Government failed to introduce in 13 years and which the shadow Chancellor could have introduced when he was City Minister, but never did.

Sovereign Grant Bill

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Thursday 14th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I agree that it is all about effectiveness and dignity, and I think that the Bill strikes the right balance between those who say that the monarchy is spending too much and those who say that it is not getting enough money for its official duties. The Bill has been discussed with the royal household, and it is content with it, which is why the whole process began with a Gracious message.

I want to clear up a misunderstanding. There will be a real-terms increase in the annual sums that Parliament provides, but that is because the royal household has been relying on a reserve of public money that has built up over time. That reserve has come to an end, and as I said a couple of weeks ago, the previous Chancellor of the Exchequer, perfectly reasonably when confronted with this issue before the general election, said, “I think we’ll wait until after the general election and let whoever are the Government then deal with it.” We are here because we have been relying on a reserve of public money that has run out. However, with the mechanism we are putting in place there will be a real-terms reduction of up to 9%—on our estimates—in public support for the royal household.

The shadow Chancellor and others, including the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson), asked what would happen if there was a windfall from, for example, the offshore marine estate. At the moment, that constitutes a very small part of the revenues of the Crown Estate—about 1%, as I understand it. It is perfectly possible that, in the latter part of the decade or in the next decade, there will be a big increase, but, because I have accepted the spirit of the Opposition amendment, we will now have a review in 2016 and will be in a much better place to assess whether there will be such a windfall. However, I think that it is highly unlikely. No one is predicting a massive windfall in the next three or four years leading up to that review.

The reserve provides a check. The expenditure of the royal household is audited by the National Audit Office and if the money is not being spent for purposes for which it is provided by Parliament, it will come out in the audit. If there is an excess—in other words, if the sovereign grant is more than it needs—it goes into a reserve. That is a long-established principle. There is now a check on that reserve so that it cannot rise above 50% or thereabouts of the money from the sovereign grant, which was not the case before the Bill was presented to the House. The trustees—the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Keeper of the Privy Purse—have to provide an annual report to the Treasury, and through the Treasury to Parliament, on that reserve.

A couple of specific points were made about Marlborough house. The hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) raised this point a couple of times. Marlborough house will remain the Government’s responsibility and is currently used by the Commonwealth Secretariat, as I am sure he knows. It will be up to the royal household to decide what premises it needs. It would, for example, be able to rent premises if it needed to, but I do not think that that is relevant to the support that we are providing.

The hon. Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams), who is no longer in his place, asked about the mausoleum. It will stay on the English Heritage buildings at risk register until it is repaired in five to eight years’ time. My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough asked about the governance of the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall. I did not think it appropriate to open up that issue in this Bill, which is more narrowly focused on the official support that Parliament provides to Her Majesty.

I hope that I have now answered all the questions that have been raised, and that clause 1 can now proceed to stand part of the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2

Accounts of the Royal Household

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I rise to speak to amendment 1, page 2, line 31, at end add—

“(4A) The statement must be accompanied by information showing the numbers of directly or indirectly employed hourly-paid staff of the Royal Household working in or in connection with the Royal Palaces in London who in the financial year in question were paid at or below £8.30 an hour.”.

I shall be as brief as possible, given the time constraints. The amendment is straightforward. Clause 2 proposes that the royal household’s accounts are to be reported. I am asking that a statement be included in that report to show the number of employees who are directly or indirectly employed by the royal household and who are being paid at or below £8.30 an hour. The reason that I have arrived at the figure of £8.30 is that that is the London living wage, as set by the Mayor of London, who has described it as the wage level designed to provide a

“minimum acceptable quality of life”

for people working in the capital.

The London living wage was started by a group of religious organisations, churches and trade unions 10 years ago, as part of a campaign by London Citizens. They came together to try to tackle poverty, and recognised that the national minimum wage did not allow people to avoid living in poverty in the capital city. They have campaigned over the past decade to press employers to pay the London living wage. They have targeted cleaners, in particular, who are living in poverty. They campaigned and they won. First, they won in a number of banks at Canary Wharf, then they came to Parliament and ensured that we paid our cleaners the London living wage. The campaign continued right through the capital, and more than 200 major companies have now signed up to the London living wage campaign. The Prime Minister himself described it as

“an idea whose time had come”.

The Leader of the Opposition appeared with him on a platform before the general election with members of London Citizens to sign up to the London living wage. Every mayoral candidate has supported it. Why? They did so because all of us want to see people living out of poverty. Yet in the royal household, which is only a mile and a half away from here, the workers who are employed by contracting companies including KGB—

Banking

Debate between George Osborne and John McDonnell

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

My hon. Friend is right, which is good as he is my local MP. One of the weaknesses in the British economy over recent years has been that small and medium-sized businesses have not had access to venture capital and other sources of funding, as they have had in countries such as the United States and Germany, so that they can become larger companies. The regional business growth fund that I have spoken about will provide more access to such funding. I will also return to this issue in the Budget.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I believe that I was the first MP to raise the issue of bankers’ bonuses in this House five years ago, and I was critical of the previous Government. I say to the Chancellor directly that referring pay to remuneration committees, which is a largely toothless and ineffective rubber-stamping exercise, and allowing bankers at RBS to convert their shares into cash bonuses within two years will not assuage the anger of the British people.

[Mr Osborne]

First, I respect the hon. Gentleman’s consistency on this issue. Secondly, I said explicitly that I did not think that the anger would disappear any time soon; memories will be long of what has gone wrong in recent years. It will help that bank boards will at least be aware of the some of the salaries that are being paid in their organisations, which they simply were not under the previous regime. That is one thing that clearly went wrong at the Royal Bank of Scotland.