Oral Answers to Questions

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hurd]

I know that feelings run strongly on the issue across the House. The bottom line is that charitable status is decided by the Charity Commission and by the courts in the event of an appeal, which is what is happening in this case. I am sure my hon. Friend supports me in wishing for the process to be resolved as quickly as possible.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/ Co-op)]

14. In Luton, the local authority’s budget is being cut by approximately half over the period of the comprehensive spending review. In turn, funding is being cut for many local charities, such as LAMP—the Luton accommodation and move-on project—a brilliant charity based in my constituency that works with youth homelessness. Is that not the reality of the big society?

[Mr Hurd]

The reality of the big society is that the public are enormously supportive of charities. Seventy-five per cent. of charities receive no funding at all from the state. Where they do, it is incumbent on us all—Members on both sides of the House—to send a very clear message to local authorities, as the Prime Minister has done, that we do not expect to see disproportionate cuts to the sector, and that we need to see the process being delivered in accordance with the compact.

European Council

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will look carefully at what my hon. Friend has said. Clearly, the freedoms of the European Union—the freedom to trade, free movement of capital and free movement of people—have all been important in trying to deliver the economic growth and success we want to see. I will make two points. First, when new members have joined we have been able to put in place transitional controls, and in my view we should always do that. Secondly—this was examined when there was a greater sense of crisis in the eurozone—there are rules that can be invoked in a time of crisis if we need to abrogate those freedoms in some way.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Can the Prime Minister ever imagine Britain leaving the EU?

[The Prime Minister]

That is not a position I support, so I do not spend my time thinking about it, but clearly all futures for Britain are imaginable—we are in charge of our own destiny and can make our own choices. I believe that the choice we should make is to stay in the European Union, to be a member of the single market and to maximise our impact in Europe, but when we are unhappy with parts of the relationship we should not be frightened of standing up and saying so. As I have said, we have got out of the bail-out power. I think that we made a mistake joining the social chapter. We should be prepared to have these discussions. The fact that we are not in the Schengen agreement is not a disaster for Britain; it is a bonus for Britain. The fact that we are not in the single currency is not a disaster for Britain; it is a bonus for Britain. That is the sort of Europe we should be pushing for.

European Council

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend has absolutely hit the nail on the head. We want the eurozone banking to go ahead, but there are dangers, because if the ECB members voted en bloc in the European Banking Authority, they would automatically have qualified majority voting—that is the problem. That is why the conclusions of the summit include these words:

“An acceptable and balanced solution is needed regarding changes to voting modalities and decisions under the European Banking Authority…Regulation.”

That is very important conclusions language that we fought quite a battle to secure. My point is that I do not want to veto the banking union, but unless this problem is properly sorted—and Britain has a totally legitimate argument about why it needs to be sorted—we cannot allow it to go ahead.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister has said before that he brings something significant to the EU growth party. Can he inform the House what it is?

[The Prime Minister]

Among the most important things that Europe can do for growth are trade deals with the fastest growing parts of the world, completing the single market, and deregulating and cutting costs. All those are the agendas that Britain is driving forward and having greater success with than we have had for many years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Wednesday 5th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, particularly as he represents a very far-flung rural constituency with people living across a number of different islands. I am sure the Business Secretary will have been listening carefully to what he says, although the Government can make a limited amount of interference in such contracts.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q12. Does the Prime Minister have full confidence in his police and crime commissioner in Hampshire?

[The Prime Minister]

What I would say about the police and crime commissioners is that we have not yet had the elections. We are going to have elections in November, and this is a very good opportunity to broadcast from this House what an important set of elections those are. I want to see a new form of accountability coming through in our police forces, and this is an excellent reform. I am sure that many people want to turn out and vote, hopefully for their local Conservative candidate.

House of Lords Reform Bill

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sadiq Khan]

I am not sure whether I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point. He seems to be suggesting that we skip the details and rush the Bill through the House, and I am not sure that that is my idea of good government.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does my right hon. Friend feel as uncomfortable as I do when listening to the Liberal Democrats lecturing people on referendum commitments in manifestos when they cannot even keep to their own commitments to their coalition colleagues, or on tuition fees?

[Sadiq Khan]

I am always uncomfortable when listening to Liberal Democrat Members of Parliament.

G20 Summit

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Monday 25th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. It seemed to me important to try to make that point, not just to Argentina but—almost more to the point—to other countries, which sometimes go along with motions proposed at various international gatherings that are against the interests of the Falkland islanders because they have not heard their voice. People are now going to hear that voice, and I hope the world will listen.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Is not the Prime Minister’s influence in and prescription for the world economy fatally undermined by the first double-dip recession in 37 years in this country?

[The Prime Minister]

The point about what we are saying about the world economy is that, in fact, we are part of the consensus on the need to stop the march to protectionism, to regulate the banks properly, to have credible fiscal plans so that interest rates are kept down, and to have proper monetary activism and structural reforms to deliver growth. That is what the world signed up to at the G20 and it is a consensus that the Labour party is completely out of.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

That point has been raised with me. At the moment, I do not think that striking the balance between making sure that people who are eligible to vote can vote and preventing those who are not eligible from doing so requires voter ID at polling stations. I heard several Labour Members shout out that that was an illiberal proposition, which is rich coming from people who thought that having compulsory ID cards was a good idea. This Government legislated to get rid of ID cards, and we do not mean to bring them in via the back door.

Last June, we published a White Paper and draft legislation setting out our proposals. We proposed that in 2014, every elector on the register would be invited to make a new application providing personal information that would be verified by comparing it to data held by the Department for Work and Pensions, to ensure that the applicant was a genuine person. Every elector would have to make a new application and anyone who did not, or whose application was unsuccessful, would be removed from the register published after the 2015 annual canvass.

We held an extensive public consultation on those proposals, which had more than 900 responses. As its Chairman said, the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee carried out pre-legislative scrutiny, and there have been a number of debates and questions on the matter in both Houses.

Members may have noted that earlier today, to assist the House in its consideration of the Bill, my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House announced in a written ministerial statement that the Bill will be part of a pilot for explanatory statements on amendments. I hope that all hon. Members who plan to table amendments will participate in that pilot, as will the Government.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

What percentage of the eligible UK population does the Minister believe will be registered after 2015 under his plans?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David]

That is not much of an argument. We need an indication from the Government, which they have failed to provide, of the level at which the fixed fine will be set. There is no question of varying the fixed fine, of course; it will be a uniform fixed fine. We simply want to know what it should be. The Observer suggested that it might be £100. There have been other suggestions, too. I am simply saying that given that the Government are making a big thing of having listened to the opinions of many people outside the House and are committed to a civil penalty in principle, we need to know what they judge an effective figure to be.

[Gavin Shuker]

Is not the point that the threat of a fine is proportionate to how much money it would take off people? If it is a small fine, people will be less likely to register, but if it is a larger fine, they will be more likely to do so.

[Mr David]

My hon. Friend puts it very well.

The Minister told us that details of the civil penalty would be set out in secondary legislation, which brings me to a broader point. With this legislation, perhaps more than any other, the devil is in the detail, but the detail is tucked away in secondary legislation and we cannot see it. Last November, I asked the Deputy Prime Minister, from the Dispatch Box, whether the Government would publish their secondary legislation at the same time as the primary legislation. That was six months ago. Additional information has been forthcoming, including today, but six months later we still cannot properly assess these proposals, simply because we do not know—we have not been told—the detail.

One of the main reasons we have continuing concerns about the Bill relates to the Government’s timetable for implementation. Under the last Labour Government, the Electoral Commission was to play a key role in monitoring and assessing the progress towards a new register. Sadly, that role has been diminished and downgraded. Instead, the Government are rushing pell-mell into a new system of electoral registration that ought to provide the cornerstone of our democratic process. We understand from the Government that they are undertaking a second round of data matching. That is to be welcomed and will show how complete the new register is at the end of 2015. The pilots will indicate whether the new register will be depleted. In all reasonableness, I think that the House should be aware of the conclusion of the pilots before it decides on the Government’s implementation timetable, yet the results of the data-matching pilots will not be available until early next year.

Why are the Government hell-bent on introducing this radical change at breakneck speed? It has been suggested that they are determined to end the carry-over arrangements before 1 December 2015 for reasons of Conservative party self-interest.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Shuker]

The hon. Lady’s argument seems to be that young people who cannot be bothered to fill in the form should lose the right to vote, but that people who cannot get to the polling station by 10 pm should gain that opportunity—

[Mrs Laing]

No—that is completely wrong. My point is that if someone is just outside the polling station—in the school playground, perhaps, or the car park of the village hall—but there is not sufficient space for them to get in through the door, the presiding officer should have the power to designate the end of the queue, so that those people can move forward and vote.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank the hon. Lady for clarifying the position, although I still think, given the comments that she made previously, that she had been prepared to support the previous timetable.

The process of pre-legislative scrutiny has been helpful, and the Government have clearly listened to the issues that were raised by the Select Committee, the Electoral Commission and others. That has been an important part of the process. It is an important part of the process for any legislation, and the Select Committee takes it very seriously. We make this comment frequently, and we made it quite vociferously when the opportunity was not given to scrutinise some of the early constitutional legislation in this Parliament. I believe that my fellow Select Committee members agree that that was detrimental to that legislation. The process has been valuable in this case. Even if some of the issues remain unresolved, we nevertheless got a response to the process. I hope that we will see much more of this kind of scrutiny for other legislation. The more debate, discussion and detailed scrutiny we have, the better. That kind of scrutiny is not always possible in Committee, whether on the Floor of the House or upstairs, as time is often limited. The Select Committee process has therefore been helpful.

We all go out and about, and we know just how variable registration can be. That is one of my major concerns about the Bill. When I walk down a street of bungalows and villas in my constituency, I can be sure that I will knock on every door in that street, because all the people living there are on the electoral register. Equally, in other parts of the constituency, the number of registered households can be as low as two or three of the 10 or 12 on a stair in a tenement. Edinburgh is a city of tenements. There are modern flats and also traditional tenements, and many people living in them are not registered.

Perhaps I misunderstood, but the hon. Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson) seemed to suggest that the fall in the numbers of people registered during the past year was somehow to be placed at the door of the previous Government because they wanted registration to fall. What has actually happened is a substantial change in certain types of housing tenure.

In Edinburgh, the proportion of people living in the private sector was between 6% and 7% in the late 1990s, but it is now 20%-plus and, in some areas, between 30% and 40%. That is important, because the time spent by people living in that form of tenure is shorter. Most private lets are shorter; people have to move on. In that situation, perhaps they do not form the same commitment to their community, and sometimes they have no sooner registered themselves than they are moving on. Not all the tenements have lifts, especially the old-style ones. I think that the highest such building in my constituency is five storeys high—or six, if we are using the British naming of floors. Having puffed my way up to the top, I often find that the people who were registered as living there have moved on, and that the new tenants have not yet registered. It is a particular issue in certain areas.

It is important that the additional money promised by the Government is spent on the process of ensuring that registration happens properly. Even the data matching will be quite differential. My hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central touched on that, explaining that in some areas the data-matching pilots had shown only a 55% match—not the two thirds that the Government have mentioned.

Why is that important for the size of the register? If the aim is to move people over as a result of data matching—that was not its original purpose, although I accept that it has considerable benefit, helping to ensure that people do not find themselves off the register—areas such as Edinburgh, which has many varied styles of description for tenement flats, help to explain why data-matching will not work. For example, the way in which flats are referred to within tenements is often quite variable. Some flats are referred to in some records as “stair 9/1, stair 9/2, stair 9/3” and so forth, whereas they are called something quite different in other registers for the same address—perhaps strange things like “1F1, 1F2, 2F2” or something rather peculiar like “PF1”, which puzzled me for a long time, as I thought it might refer to a platform, but it refers, in fact, to the ground floor.

[Gavin Shuker]

It strikes me that my hon. Friend is advancing the point that individual electoral registration officers and returning officers are well placed to understand their local communities, if given the appropriate level of resources for the challenging set of circumstances in which they have to do their job.

[Sheila Gilmore]

That is exactly my point. It is not just about the levels of population within an area, as variability is also important. Far more work will have to be done in areas with such difficulties, as the data matching will simply not happen in the circumstances I was describing. It is not because people do not exist or are in any way phantoms on the register, but simply because there are two sets of data identifying the same property in a very different way. That difficulty will be thrown up in the process. In those circumstances, certain areas will require more resources to ensure that people are registered.

The decline in registration is worrying, and it is worrying that in some parts of our communities so few people are taking even the first step towards registration to vote. Being registered to vote is, of course, no guarantee that people will vote, but if they are not registered, they certainly cannot vote.

Finally, I would like to hear more from the Minister about the extent to which the Government want to encourage somewhat more innovative ways of getting people to register—not just through the canvass and other traditional ways. Would it be possible, as happens in some countries and as some commentators have suggested, to offer people the opportunity to register when they are involved in other transactions with the state? If, for example, people were applying for a driving licence—that is particularly appropriate for young people—could they not be offered the opportunity to register? We cannot make them register, but that would provide the opportunity to do so.

Perhaps even more valuable for the future, would it not be possible, given all the systems we have, to allow people both to register and to vote at the same time? Most people are of course most interested in voting when an election campaign is going on. We have all encountered people suddenly realising that they are not able to vote at the point when they want to do so. Allowing people to register and to vote at the same time might be difficult, but it certainly happens in many states in America. I urge the Government to look at as many different ways of getting people to register as possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am extremely grateful for being given the opportunity to speak in this debate. On Second Reading, we have the opportunity to debate the principle behind the Bill, and Opposition Front Benchers were right to point out that although we can support the underlying principle, there are areas that give cause for concern, and I am sure those will determine how we divide the House this evening.

Some of the comments made today in discussing the principle behind the Bill have concerned me. We have thrown around terms such as “the integrity of the register” as though that were a one-sided issue. The root of integrity is the absence of flaws. I completely support the efforts we made when in government to introduce individual voter registration, and which we have continued to support under the current Administration. However, my concern is that a register that excludes people who otherwise may wish to vote and who are perfectly entitled to do so, and that seeks to reduce the number of voters from certain key groups—those who are less likely to be able to register in this way—is fundamentally flawed. Many Opposition Members and, if we are being honest, Members across the House, would identify those key groups as young people, people from ethnic minority and poorer backgrounds, and those who live in inner cities.

Two issues have come to light during the debate that will govern how we will debate the Bill as it proceeds through Parliament. The first is the number of anecdotal examples of alleged voter fraud, and of convictions for such fraud. I detected an underlying tone in many Members’ contributions; it suggested that, even where convictions were not secured, the fact that questions were raised was evidence of a problem that must be solved. However, we should be better than that, especially when the underlying assumption about the background of the people involved in such activity—it is an assumption made by a number of Members during today’s debate—relates to their ethnicity, religion or faith. If we want to make assertions based on anecdotal evidence, we should be extremely careful about the type of groups we characterise in that way. The onus of proof is clearly on us, as Members.

My second concern is the underlying assumption, which we heard from Government Members, that if people cannot complete a more complex and demanding process in order to register and are unable to return the form—the issue that is at the heart of the Bill—they should, quite rightly, lose their right to vote. No one should lose their right to vote. There are questions to be asked about what the most efficient process is to ensure the integrity of the register. As I said at the start of my speech, if we truly want a register with integrity, we need to consider not just those who should not be on the register, but those who are not on it. There is this idea that we have an undeserving group of people. The example was rightly given—perhaps in jest, but there is some truth in it—of younger voters, such as students. It may surprise Members to hear that, not so long ago, I was a student. Even though I am a disciplined, efficient and “together” Member of Parliament now—[Interruption.] Thank you. I think Hansard may record that as “interruption”. However, there were perhaps times when a form or essay sat on my desk that I fully intended to hand in, but my approach was not as efficient as the one I would adopt now that I am in my fourth decade. It is important not to put hurdles in the way before we have seen the evidence on the effects; only then should we undergo the transition to a whole new process.

[Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a passionate speech, as well as a self-congratulatory one. He is congratulatory about himself, but he is dismissive of the qualities of our young people. One of the transitions that they have to make is from childhood to adulthood. Students in this country are perfectly capable of recognising their duty and the requirements to register to vote. The suggestion that they or people in ethnic minorities somehow have a likelihood of being incapable of doing that is one that I find offensive to them, and I ask him to retract any such suggestion.

[Gavin Shuker]

I think that the hon. Gentleman has entirely misread my comments, and I wonder whether he has chosen to do so. About one in four young people under 24 vote, whereas about three quarters of people over 60 do so, and that should not be dismissed.

[Mrs Laing]

We have debated this matter for the past five hours, but does the hon. Gentleman not accept that if a person cannot exercise the personal responsibility of filling in a simple form online in order to register to vote, it is upon their own head that they lose their right to vote?

[Gavin Shuker]

The hon. Lady has moderated her language since she made her speech earlier, in which she clearly said that those people did not “deserve” to vote. She can look at Hansard to see that. I appreciate that she has moved her position, but her substantive point remains that there are those people who deserve to vote and those who do not. I, for one, do not want to see a system where we start talking about the electorate in that way.

[Mr Stuart]

They won’t be the electorate.

[Gavin Shuker]

The hon. Gentleman rightly points out that they will not be the electorate then, but in this place we should be better than that.

When we consider foreign policy, for example, we often examine how we set a timetable. There are two ways of setting a timetable for change. The first is by way of a conditions-based response, where we say that there are certain milestones to be hit—certain points at which we consider that the integrity of the process has been governed and understood by all, and the progress that has been made has been secured. The other route is by way of a purely date-led timetable. In the Political Parties and Elections Act 2009, the previous Government set out a position where two parallel processes would happen at the same time: the existing register would continue in the way that it had, while we looked at and tried to understand how individual electoral registration affected the details of those people on the register. That strikes me as a wholly appropriate approach, and many Government Members, as they are now, supported those moves. Why for the sake of a year’s change or difference are we now going to cause ourselves trouble and store it up for the future?

We have heard a lot from the Minister about the data-matching trials, which are obviously important in order for us to see whether this shift has a measurable and discernible effect on how the register is produced. He has placed details in the Library today, and I am looking forward to seeing them. However, he said that he anticipates that only two thirds of the people currently on the register will be moved across.

[Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)]

At best.

[Gavin Shuker]

At best. The key issue is that we will not know, even from the pilots, whether that is an appropriate level until early 2013, by which point this legislation will have gone from this place. We will not be able to pull back from the brink if demonstrably lower levels of data matching are shown. The Minister was clear about the onus put on those trials in the first place; it was a key reason why this was an appropriate route to go down. In answer to my intervention, he said that he hoped the number on the electoral register will not decrease, and will instead increase, as a result of these changes. What safeguards are in place if the data-matching trials come back not with a figure of 66% or 55%, which is the sort of figure others have spoken about, but a significantly lower one? Answer comes there none.

Secondly, on the 2015 review of boundaries for the 2020 elections, to which this process is integral, we have very little in the way of answers about how the register will change constituency boundaries, which have already been changed to a great extent. I draw the House’s attention to the quotes from the Electoral Reform Society, which said:

“A substantial fall off in registered voters, weighted towards urban areas, would require the Boundary Commission to reduce the number of inner city seats. This will create thousands of “invisible” citizens who will not be accounted for or considered in many key decisions that affect their lives”.

I believe that that is the situation we are in now, and it might well extend further. That does a disservice to many of the groups that I mentioned.

Finally, I want to draw attention to the issue of young people. Students who are registered in their halls of residence are empowered to vote at a time of significant change and transition in their lives. I hope that they will not be disfranchised, because their voices must be heard if we are to maintain the credibility of the process and draw in new voters, too.

Debate on the Address

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

The hon. Gentleman has hit an interesting note. The good people of Dwyfor Meirionnydd were hugely underwhelmed at the thought of House of Lords reform, given that there were at least another 210 subjects they wanted to talk about first.

For what they are worth, I shall leave those comments on Lords reform up in the air—pointless, as they may well be.

The Gracious Speech contained several interesting proposals, but as always the devil is in the detail. Nevertheless, I shall speak on the basis of what I know now of the speech. First, though, I would like to congratulate Her Majesty on her reign and on having been an excellent monarch for many years. I fully welcome the Government’s intention to bring in the groceries ombudsman—I think that is what it is called—in the Gracious Speech. Many of us throughout the House have championed such a thing for a long time. I first came to it in about 2004—2005 possibly—and many people in the Chamber and outside have argued similarly.

As we know, a draft Bill was published and scrutinised during the last Session and might well be the basis of the legislation coming before us shortly. Ministers in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, I and everyone in the Chamber are aware of the crisis in the milk industry, for example. We need an ombudsman with real powers and teeth to tackle these problems, as the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) said. We owe it not only to the farming community but to the many other suppliers to ensure that the ombudsman can act to good effect. Unless we do that, I am afraid that the measure might prove a damp squib.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it would be sensible to seek amendments to ensure that the ombudsman’s powers are in the Bill and not kept in reserve?

[Mr Llwyd]

I am always in favour, where possible, of putting the powers in the Bill, because many things happen by way of secondary legislation that slip through on the nod, and suddenly we have unintended consequences and law that is not as workable or useful as we might have thought. I agree, therefore, with the hon. Gentleman.

I have heard it said that there will be a power to name and shame. That is one thing that supermarkets, for example, would be concerned about, but equally there must be a power to impose substantial financial penalties. Small financial penalties will not do the office justice; they must be substantial if they are to mean anything at all.

I referred to the dairy industry. The problems are not unique to Wales—they are across the board—but since 1999 the number of Welsh dairy farmers has halved. This week’s tuppence cut by Dairy Crest has wreaked havoc on many people in north, mid and south Wales. It is said that a cut of between 3p and 4p, for example, means a loss of £65 million to the Welsh dairy sector. I would like the EU dairy package on contracts introduced on a compulsory rather than a voluntary basis, and I hope that DEFRA Ministers will hold a full and frank discussion with devolved Ministers on that basis.

This issue does not only concern dairy farmers, however; suppliers in general are being hammered by the unfair contract terms and pressures being applied. I remember seeing several Ministers about this matter, including Lord Bach, who said, candidly, “I need six or seven names and examples of pressure being applied”, but dairy farmers, concerned about being victimised and losing their contracts, were not prepared to put their heads above the parapet. As one said to me, “Half a loaf is better than no loaf at all.” So, there we are. I understand that there will now be a right to complain anonymously.

I will give the House the example of a farmer in the constituency whom I have the privilege to represent who bottles water—the purest water in Wales, apparently. On occasion, I have even drunk it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tony Baldry]

Yes, this Government have probably achieved more in two years than the Blair Government achieved in the whole of their first term.

[Gavin Shuker]

Why does the hon. Gentleman believe that we are in the first double-dip recession for 37 years?

[Tony Baldry]

The hon. Gentleman has just heard me comment on the legacy of his Government, so I find it extraordinary that he has the cheek and audacity to ask such a question. The Labour Government left the country with no money and the biggest debt crisis of our lifetime. Indeed, over many years, this country built up massive debts, which we have to pay off. Of course, it is much more difficult to do that when so much of the rest of Europe is in recession. As I suspect France will soon demonstrate, trying to pile debt upon debt is what got Britain and Europe into such difficulties in the first place. It did not work for Britain over 13 years of a Labour Government and would not work now. The eurozone’s troubles are caused by too much debt, the burden of excessive public spending and the burden of excessive public borrowing. It is not surprising that Government are seeking the approval of Parliament relating to the agreed financial stability mechanism within the euro area.

It is no mean task recovering from the deepest recession in living memory, accompanied as it was by a debt crisis. Our banks had too much debt; our households had too much debt; and the Government had too much debt. As Sir Mervyn King, commenting on the performance of the last Government, observed in “The Today Lecture” that he gave last week while the House was in recess:

“Bailing out the banks came too late though to prevent the financial crisis from spilling over into the world economy. The realisation of the true state of the banking system led to a collapse of confidence around the world...unemployment in Britain rose by over a million....to many this will seem deeply unfair and it is. I can understand why so many people are angry.”

One can speculate only that perhaps more than a million people may have lost their jobs unnecessarily because the previous Government failed to act on warnings from the Bank of England.

Notwithstanding the challenge, Britain has so far hung on to our triple A credit rating. We have kept a lid on borrowing costs and, compared with other countries in the eurozone, many of which are in the process of changing leaders or just starting to tackle their debts, we are thriving.

EU Council

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I know how important the cod issue is to my hon. Friend’s constituents and people right across that region. I will ensure that Ministers in the coalition Government stand up for our fishermen.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister has stated that he wanted to deal at the level of 27 nations. Why, then, did he end up having bilateral discussions with just three?

[The Prime Minister]

The point is that it is quite clear that when it came to the issue of wanting a change to the treaty—[Hon. Members: “Answer!”] I am answering the question very directly. It was clear that the Germans and the French were leading the charge on wanting a change to the treaty, so it was very important to have discussions with them, but I also had discussions with the Dutch, the Swedish, the Irish and many others.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Gavin Shuker Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The British public are wise about this. They want us to get on with it and fix this problem. Frankly, they know that both parties have done a lot of sucking up to the media in their time. They want us to get on with it, work together and sort it out.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

In his statement, the Prime Minister said that “if it turns out that I have been lied to, that would be the moment for a profound apology.” I say this more in sadness than in anger, but is it not exactly such phrases that lead the public to hold our profession in contempt? I invite him now to give an apology, even if it might not be politically expedient.

[The Prime Minister]

I said that I am extremely sorry and that I deeply regret the whole furore that this has kicked up. [Interruption.] I did. I said that. Opposition Front-Bench Members ought to listen. The second point I made was that with 20:20 hindsight, knowing everything that subsequently happened, I would not have offered him the job, and to be fair to Andy Coulson, he would not have taken it. However, I do not believe in politicians trying to shuffle off their responsibilities. I made this decision. I employed this person. I defend his record working in government. If it turns out he lied to me about what happened before, that would mean an even deeper apology and even deeper regret than I have expressed today. I am telling hon. Members what I feel about this; how I act as a politician about this. I cannot do more than that.