Draft Airports Slot Allocation (Alleviation of Usage Requirements) (No. 2) Regulations 2022

Gavin Newlands Excerpts

Monday 18th July 2022 General Committees

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

As always, Mr Gray, it is a pleasure to hear your Glaswegian tones from the Chair. I state at the outset that the Scottish National party will also not be opposing the SI—the Government have been left with very little choice over introducing it. I agree with probably every word the Labour spokesman, the hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East, said and I will not repeat them—partly due to the heat in this room—but I do have a couple of points to make and a couple of questions for the Minister.

If my experience in recent weeks is anything to go by, I am not sure how many ghost flights there are at the moment in the UK, so packed and chaotic are some flights. However, ghost flights are obviously an absurd waste of money and emit completely unnecessary carbon and greenhouse gases. There were 500 such flights between October and December last year, but Lufthansa has had to fly 15,000 ghost flights despite the threshold for slot alleviation in Europe being cut to 50%—it has now been put back up to 64%.

As the Minister himself alluded to, however, the reason we are discussing this issue again is jobs. The sector is struggling to recruit and retain staff. Obviously, if the Government had supported the industry as promised, the problem would not be anywhere near as acute, but we have had that argument before. Today, we are providing relief to a sector that is struggling to get staff and therefore, crucially, capacity back into its operations.

I am grateful to the Minister for his response this morning to a letter I sent regarding various aviation issues, including jobs. I am not going to stray too far, but—

[The Chair]

Don’t stray at all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Newlands]

If one of those issues had been taken forward, we might not have needed to be here today, but they were not. Those issues included the recruitment processes and the hope for access to recruitment services in aviation—

[The Chair]

Order. I am trying to be as flexible as I can, and I was flexible with the Opposition spokesman, but I am afraid that the Minister’s reply to an earlier letter has nothing to do with this statutory instrument. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would return to the instrument.

[Gavin Newlands]

With respect, I only had two sentences on that topic.

[The Chair]

Order. You will not have two sentences, or even one sentence, or one word. As I have said, you will not return to that matter; you will return to the statutory instrument we are discussing. The other thing you will not do is argue with the Chair.

[Gavin Newlands]

I will not argue with the Chair. I was saying that I had two sentences—all I was saying was that I was nearly finished.

[The Chair]

That is all right.

[Gavin Newlands]

I will ask the Minister about the issue afterwards.

I have spoken before about the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service. In terms of slot alleviation, clearly cancellations are happening, and for one airline more than most—Loganair, because of some of the airports it flies into. Are cancellations that are happening as a result of our lack of membership of EGNOS part of the current review, or are they left out?

Also, given that the recruitment issues are likely to be medium to long term—perhaps up to 18 months or longer—does the Minister envision extending relief again when we come to the winter? I think he said he was going to publish something on that issue. I have heard from the Airport Operators Association and others that forward bookings for the winter are not looking particularly promising right now.

At the moment, European carriers are not getting the same relief from the UK at the other end of routes, so what discussions is the Minister having with his European partners to make sure ghost flights do not take place? I accept that he is not responsible for legislation in other European countries, but what conversations are happening on that topic?

Finally, there has at times been inflexibility in this area. What do the rules say, or what does the Minister think, about very specific covid outbreaks that affect airlines in certain situations, rather than national outbreaks, where the Government can obviously ask the aviation sector to change?

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Courts]

I am justly chastised for straying in my attempt to be diligent. I will go back to the context of the SI.

The hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East made a number of points about cancellations, with which I entirely agree. Last-minute cancellations are distressing for families and for people who have been waiting to reunite with friends, and we should do everything possible to avoid them, as the Government are doing through the 22-point plan. A number of cancellations have recently been reported in the papers, some of which are in response to the sector being realistic. We have to be fair to the sector about that; when we say, “Look at your schedules and be realistic. Are you able to operate the schedules that you are offering for sale?”, and it realises it cannot, it will obviously have to take steps. No cancellation is good news—I do not want there to be any cancellations; I want everybody to fly as swiftly and easily as possible—but if there is a cancellation, I do not want it to be at the last moment. If it happens earlier, it is regrettable, but it gives people a chance to make alternative plans. We are encouraging the sector to be responsible, to look at what it can operate and to take steps accordingly.

The hon. Gentleman also spoke about compensation. We published a charter at the weekend so that consumers can clearly see all their rights in one place. I think I have dealt with all his points, but I firmly reject any suggestion that the Government or the Transport Secretary are missing in action on this. We have taken enormous steps, through a detailed programme of very regulator engagement with the industry, to understand exactly how we may best be of assistance. What hon. Members are seeing here is the fruits of that engagement, which is precisely why we are debating this issue today.

The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North raised a couple of points. He asked about the impact of EGNOS. We continue to gather evidence on that and to look at the impact it is having. He asked whether any flights that are cancelled because of an EGNOS-related factor are taken into account in these regulations. That would obviously depend on whether the cancellation was at a slot-constrained airport, so he will be referring to whether that is at this end. Without getting into wider points about slots, it will depend on this statutory instrument, which is all about handing back slots in the two-week window. An EGNOS-related problem would occur on the day, so one would not expect an EGNOS-related cancellation to be covered, at least not sticking strictly to the confines of this statutory instrument. However, under normal circumstances the ratio is 70:30 or 80:20, so there is a percentage there to allow for slots not being flown for another reason, whatever that might be, and that might include EGNOS.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the position we are taking for winter. We have consulted on the wider slots policy and we are considering our position, and it is likely that our policy will be announced shortly. I cannot go into that any further at the moment. If the hon. Gentleman is referring to this specific relief, it is a one-off measure taken in response to the scenes we have seen in relation to resilience as we come up to the summer peak period and in relation to constrained demand because of the covid pandemic.

If I understood him correctly, the hon. Gentleman also asked about conversations we are having with European partners and whether there are covid restrictions in other countries.

[Gavin Newlands]

Essentially, alleviation at the moment is 64%, but our European partners look at the rules perhaps slightly differently. The reasons for the flight not taking place are allowed at the UK end but not recognised at the European end. Therefore, the flight has to take place because the Europeans have slightly different regulations.

[Robert Courts]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Of course, a slot at one end may be alleviated but that does not mean that there is an alleviation at the other end. This is an operational matter that has to be negotiated between airlines and their partners on the other side. What he said earlier is quite right, in that the Government do not have any control over the steps that others take. However, we have an ongoing relationship with other countries through officials, and Ministers where appropriate, to discuss these matters with partners abroad and with our airline sector. This is one of the issues that I would expect to be covered.

I thank the hon. Members for Wythenshawe and Sale East and for Paisley and Renfrewshire North for their points, which I think I have covered. In essence, these regulations seek to minimise the issues around capacity and short-notice cancellation. The Government are taking a strong and bold step to assist the industry in making sure we have a realistic schedule, and I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.