Trade (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Gareth Thomas and Stella Creasy

2nd reading
Monday 29th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

We support accession to the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership. We have concerns about the Bill and will be seeking additional safeguards, but we will not seek to divide the House this evening.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Liam Byrne), the Chair of the Business and Trade Committee, have said, the Bill is overshadowed by the apparent collapse of bilateral FTA negotiations with Canada, one of CPTPP’s most important members. There has been no statement to the House, and I read the transcript of the Secretary of State’s evidence to the Business and Trade Committee and saw no reference to the collapse of those negotiations. As I understand it, there has not even been a written statement to the House. This is one further sign of the Government’s cavalier approach to trade.

[Stella Creasy]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, because this really matters. With £750 million-worth of British car exports at stake, the Canadian Trade Minister, Mary Ng, has said on the record that she is “disappointed” the talks have fallen apart. The Ministers shouting “fake news” need to be clear and honest with the British workers whose jobs are at stake. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need some honesty from the Government? If they think the talks have not fallen apart, can they tell us when they will start again?

Reproductive Rights

Debate between Gareth Thomas and Stella Creasy

Wednesday 16th May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Stella Creasy]

First and foremost, we should listen to African women, and they are consistently clear that they would like control over their own bodies. Being forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy is no freedom or liberation at all.

For every country where there is progress, we also see the tightening grip of the anti-choice movement. Let us not call it “pro-life”; there is nothing pro-life about forcing a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy. In Europe—our own continent—Poland now has some of the strictest rules on abortion in the world, and abortion is allowed only if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, if the woman’s life is in danger, or in cases of severe or fatal foetal abnormality. Consequently, 80,000 Polish women a year go abroad or seek illegal abortions at home.

America now has a President who says that women should be “punished” if they have an abortion, and a Vice-President who believes that women who have a miscarriage should report it and hold a funeral. One Governor signed a law that states that it is illegal to have an abortion once a foetal heartbeat has been detected. Given that heartbeats can be detected as early as six weeks into a pregnancy—sometimes before a women even realises she is pregnant—that is no freedom or liberation at all.

In El Salvador, abortion is illegal with no exceptions, and that horrendous ban violates the basic human rights of women in that country. At least 23 women and girls remain in prison as a result of the abortion ban, and one woman, Teodora del Carmen Vasquez, walked out of prison a few weeks ago after more than a decade of imprisonment. She was marked as a criminal because she began bleeding and suffered a stillbirth. She was sentenced to 30 years for aggravated homicide, and released only after the Supreme Court ruled that there was not enough evidence to show that she had killed her baby. Abortion may be permitted in Rwanda, but Rwandan police unjustly arrest and imprison hundreds of women on abortion-related charges—such women make up 25% of the female prison population.

The number of maternal deaths resulting from illegal abortions represents the truth: banning abortion does not stop abortion; it simply makes it unsafe. In Africa, a quarter of all those who have an unsafe abortion are adolescent girls. Indeed, about half of the 20,000 Nigerian women who die from unsafe abortions each year are adolescents. It is insulting to suggest that African women do not deserve the rights that we would fight for in our country and around the world. Africa shows us how vital international aid is, as is the job that the Minister is intended to do. Abortion is relatively legal in Zambia, but only 16% of women have access to abortion facilities—in Zambia’s Central Province, there is just one medical doctor for more than 110,000 patients.

Closer to home we see the impact of restrictions on access to healthcare services for women. In the Republic of Ireland, the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act 2013 imposed an almost total criminalisation of abortion. Ireland is one of a few countries in Europe with such highly restrictive abortion laws. The Irish constitution currently affords equal rights to the life of a foetus and to the life of a woman. However, the 18,000 women from Ireland who have travelled to the UK since 2012 reflect the fact that stopping access to abortion does not stop abortion, it just puts people at risk, including—increasingly—at risk from taking pills they have bought online. At the end of this week the Irish will go to the polls. I plead for dignity, for compassion in a crisis, and to ensure that every Irish person can care for their own at home, that there will be a yes vote.

But who are we to lecture? We should not forget how we treat women in our own backyard, particularly in Northern Ireland, which has some of the harshest laws and punishments in Europe for women who undergo an abortion. A woman with an unwanted pregnancy in Northern Ireland must either travel to the mainland or procure abortion pills online. Since the Government agreed to fund those abortions on the NHS, more than 700 women have travelled to England or Scotland from Northern Ireland. However, those are the women who are able to travel and get away from family commitments, who are not in a coercive relationship, and who have their travel documents. Little wonder that the United Nations condemned the United Kingdom for its treatment of Northern Irish women, which it called cruel, degrading and inhuman.

The Minister might say that each of those examples is due to separate policy decisions in those countries, but I want to sound the alarm and call attention to the fact that that might not be the case. Increasingly, around the world, far-right organisations and extreme religious groups are co-ordinating and funding anti-abortion and anti-choice campaigns. We in this House are used to debating the impact of foreign countries interfering in our democracy—perhaps in referendums—and we should be alive to the fact that those foreign organisations and countries are interfering in a woman’s basic right to choose. The real “The Handmaid’s Tale” is now unfolding.

In 2013, American and European campaigners met in this capital city to plan their campaign. It is called Restoring the Natural Order: an Agenda for Europe, and it seeks to overturn basic laws on human rights related to sexuality and reproduction. Since that meeting, we have seen the impact of those organisations, and the funding they have provided. We have seen how they produced results in Poland with the ban on abortion, and with bans on equal marriage in several central European countries and action on LGBT rights. We have seen how they have targeted international aid in the UK, Europe and America.

In 2013-14 the European Citizens Initiative, One of Us, called on the European Commission to propose legislation that would ensure that EU funds could not be used to fund abortion. It garnered 1.7 million signatures, and although the EU rejected that petition, given the impact it would have on women’s healthcare, that was by no means a one-off. Such rhetoric is coming back.

[Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I very much agree with my hon. Friend and commend her comments. Does she think that now is the moment for the Government to give enthusiastic backing to the SheDecides movement that has emerged since the decision by the American President, Donald Trump, to reimpose the global gag rule? In the light of her comments about anti-abortion campaigners coming together, that would be a powerful signal of Britain’s opposition to that movement.

[Stella Creasy]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend and am extremely proud of the work that he did in government when the global gag rule was first introduced, standing up to what it represented as well as putting our money where our mouth is. We should recognise that the global gag rule under the present President is far worse than the original one. It states that no US funds will go to any organisation that provides for women to be referred for abortion, or advocates doing so. The policy may be called “protecting life in global health assistance”, but it is clear that it is leading to an increase in maternal deaths. Trump has expanded the rule that was in force under previous Republican Presidents to cover all US health assistance funds, whereas previously it was only about family planning.

Marie Stopes International estimates that its loss of US funding will result, between 2017 and 2020, in 6.5 million unintended pregnancies, 2.1 million unsafe abortions and 21,000 maternal deaths, let alone the impact on access to reproductive healthcare, including work on HIV, gender-based violence and sexually transmitted diseases. We can already see the impact. In Botswana, the prevalence of HIV is among the highest in the world at 18.5% of the general population. The Botswana Family Welfare Association provided a range of healthcare and family planning services, and 60% of its funding has been threatened, because America is—or was—the largest funder of overseas healthcare. In Swaziland, family planning, antenatal and post-natal services and treatment for sexually transmitted diseases are key services from the Family Life Association of Swaziland, and there has been a clear impact. US support accounted for 25% of its annual funding. That is why there is now a massive funding gap that needs to be filled.

I am sure that the Minister will tell us about a summit to be held in this country in June promoting the idea that abortion is part of the services that we provide around the world, but we have not, as a country, put our money where our mouth is. We have not put money into the SheDecides fund. That matters. It does not matter if we are funding other services: our approach matters because of what the global gag rule represents, what a co-ordinated attack on a woman’s basic right to choose means, and what that says about the world, and our commitment to equality. That is why it matters whether we contribute. It is about solidarity. It is also about saying that there should be no shame in seeking an abortion. I hope we would all want women to be safe, and abortion to be legal, and rare—but we do not want women to suffer in silence or to be oppressed as the network in question would want. That network brings together President Trump and his supporters, and Russian oligarchs, in funding organisations that claim to promote family values—but only the ones that they choose.

In Poland, the “stop abortion law” was drafted by ultra-conservative lawyers from an organisation called Ordo Iuris. Agenda Europe, an organisation that started here, in our country, was able to attract senior members of the Polish Government, including the Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs, Konrad Szymański, and the Polish Vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs, Aleksander Stępkowski, who was also president of Ordo Iuris. The same groups are now active in Ireland, in the referendum. It is little wonder that Google and Facebook have been so concerned about the impact of foreign organisations on the fairness of the Irish referendum that they have stopped all foreign-funded advertising about the Irish referendum on their platforms. Agenda Europe summits gather a veritable “Who’s Who” of anti-choice and anti-LGBT movements around the world, such as the architects of the Croatian traditional marriage referendum, the citizens’ initiative on traditional marriage in Romania, HazteOir in Spain, which has sought abortion restrictions, and the French organization Les Survivants, which claims that everyone in French society shares a collective trauma, potentially, because of the experience of abortion. The organisation even developed a Pokémon app where the aim of the game is to save Pikachu from abortionists.

Such rhetoric and funding are clearly having an impact on our democracies and on women; they are having an effect. Indeed, Agenda Europe has targeted the Council of Europe. It would be useful to know who it works with in this country, because it is not transparent about it. If the Minister recognises the danger of the rhetoric and of a lack of solidarity over women’s basic rights, will he investigate the links between organisations such as the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children, Christian Action Research and Education, which funds an all-party parliamentary group in this place, and Agenda Europe? Those groups do not just mobilise and target politicians; they also spread lies such as abortion causes breast cancer, and claim that Planned Parenthood is involved in the illegal selling of foetal tissue. In developing countries, they spread rumours that the west is trying to impose western women’s human rights. Internationally, they have promoted and supported the intimidation of women seeking abortions, as has happened in this country with pickets outside abortion clinics.

There have been such protests at 42 clinics already. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Dr Huq), who has done sterling work on the issue, has pointed out, that is not protest in the usual sense. The protesters are not seeking to change the law. They want to harass and target women who have come to a difficult decision and who seek access to lawful healthcare. Indeed, when the former Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd), reviewed the matter last year, she said that it was

“completely unacceptable that anyone should feel harassed or intimidated”

for exercising the legal right in question. Less than two weeks ago such protesters took part in a “march for life” through the capital city. I note that there are links with our political organisations. One person at the London meeting was Oliver Hylton, the asset manager for a UK Conservative party donor, Sir Michael Hintze. The new Conservative party vice-chair has called for a reduction in the time limit for abortion, arguing that we need to debate the issue. That is a classic tactic set out in the Agenda Europe campaign bible. That is despite evidence that 92% of abortions are carried out at less than 13 weeks’ gestation in this country.

In addition, women are being criminalised for obtaining abortion pills, reflecting how our legislation and legislation around the world is cripplingly out of date: 5,650 women from the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland accessed pills online, to create an abortion, from Women on Web. Twenty-six per cent. were aged between 30 and 34. The majority were mothers. They were women making their own choice about how their own body should be treated. Without legal access to the pills, they risk problems. There is currently a judicial review in Northern Ireland of the case of a 15-year-old girl, whose mother procured abortion pills for her online. The girl’s case was referred to social services as she was in an abusive relationship, and somehow the GP notes were turned over to the police. Even with a suspended sentence, that young girl will have a criminal conviction. This country must not leave her in that situation. We must act to protect young women around the world making choices about their bodies. Women deserve access to what is a basic healthcare procedure, and do not deserve to be shamed for making choices about their bodies. They deserve our trust, and do not deserve to have to fight for their rights every day against a shadowy organisation involving the collusion of religious and far-right groups. They deserve a Government who will stand up to that network and stand with them.

Will the Minister investigate whether any of his ministerial colleagues have met representatives of Agenda Europe, whether in a parliamentary or political capacity? Did they, for example, take part in the decision to give Life money from the tampon tax? Have Foreign Office ministers met Agenda Europe in their lobbying work in Europe? What action is the UK taking to assist Polish women who now face one of the most restrictive regimes in the world, or to fight for the rights of women in El Salvador? Will the Government change their mind and commit to putting money into the SheDecides fund to send a strong message that those who seek to make men and women unequal will not be tolerated? Will they ensure that the laws governing access to abortion in Northern Ireland fully comply with international human rights law, including the decriminalising of abortion? Will they act to give the idea of buffer zones legal status in the UK, and promote it elsewhere? To put it simply, I trust women and we are asking whether the Government do.

Co-operatives and Mutuals

Debate between Gareth Thomas and Stella Creasy

Tuesday 10th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Thomas]

That is an unfortunate consequence of some of the coverage, but I have no doubt that co-operatives can rise above it and continue to demonstrate strong support from their local communities. As I indicated earlier, I have no doubt that the co-op movement as a whole, be it in Wales, England, Scotland or Northern Ireland, will continue to prosper.

The London mutual credit union provides loans, savings and current accounts and insurance. It recognises that there is a market for short-term loans, but charges an interest rate of only 27% for a 30-day loan—a world away from the 5,600% annual percentage rate typical of the payday loan sharks against whom my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) has rightly led the charge. Crucially, it also offers access to basic financial education and services, helping people to gain greater long-term control over their personal finances. Co-operatives and mutuals offer to local communities a crucial part of the mixed economy that our country surely needs. Of course we need a vibrant private sector and certainly a strong third sector, but surely we also need continued growth in the number of co-operatives and mutuals and their economic success.

To be fair to the Government, they have continued to support the strengthening and expansion of the credit union sector, although I hope they can be persuaded to be bolder on the idea of a military credit union. I draw the Minister’s attention to the example of the United States, where the biggest credit union in the world is Navy Federal Credit Union, the credit union for the American military. It has 4 million members and over $55 billion in assets. I gently suggest to the House that it is surely time to consider again how a British armed forces credit union could be made a reality to help our soldiers, sailors and air force personnel in our own communities. A British equivalent could help to protect service families from the scourge of payday loan companies and begin to tackle the worrying levels of financial difficulties experienced by some of our veterans.

The co-operative movement itself in the UK continues to support and encourage the development of new co-operatives and mutuals as part of the response to the needs of particular local communities. The excellent Co-ops UK—the “trade association” of the co-op movement in the UK—and the Co-op Group support the co-op enterprise hub. Examples of co-operatives that have been established and are running well thanks to their support including from—the Minister may be aware of this—Bristol ferry boats. In 2012, the previous operators went into administration and a group of determined locals approached the enterprise hub for support to launch a community share issue to raise the £250,000 needed to bring the ferries into community ownership. The share offer closed in July of this year having exceeded its target. Some 850 local people invested, therefore enabling the ferry service to continue, providing—crucially—employment for 20 local people.

[Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)]

Like my hon. Friend, I should declare that I am a proud Co-op as well as Labour MP and a member of the Waltham Forest community credit union. He is making an incredibly powerful case for the need for boldness in our public policy solutions and for the way in which the co-op movement can offer that, from ferries to energy to housing as well as community credit unions. Does he therefore agree that as the concept of co-ops perhaps is being questioned, this is now the time to strengthen our relationship and our work with co-ops because of all the benefits he has outlined rather than to walk away from them?

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right and part of the reason for wanting this debate was that I was encouraged by the fact that in the coalition document there is a commitment to supporting co-operatives and mutuals. One hopes that coalition Ministers will not draw back or resile from that commitment, weak as some of the delivery has none the less been on it. It would be good to hear from the Minister what further progress he intends to make to hold to that commitment.

There is a risk that I have appeared too urban in the examples I have offered, so perhaps I can draw attention to the example of—I hope Welsh listeners will forgive my pronunciation—Tyn-Y-Capel, an historic pub in North Wales that reopened in 2012 as a result of the efforts of a determined group of locals who formed a co-operative to resurrect their local. A community share offer raised nearly £40,000, enough to take over the leasehold of the pub and, again, as a result of support from the enterprise hub. The new co-operative is developing the pub’s potential as a community venue and I am told that numerous community events have been held there since its re-opening.

The last example I want to offer the House of the co-op movement’s initiatives to help local community co-operatives to continue to be established is Aberdeen Textiles and Workwear Services in Scotland. I understand that the co-operative was established in October last year, after the Remploy factory in Aberdeen closed down. It saved some eight jobs, with the co-operative successfully retaining most of Remploy’s former customers up there, as well as gaining new ones, too.

In football, too, the Co-op party’s original idea of fans’ co-operatives—now known as supporters trusts—has taken off in a big way since it was first suggested 10 or so years ago, from Swansea City in the premiership, with fans in the club’s boardroom, and Portsmouth more recently, down to local clubs in north London. For example, Enfield Town football club is owned by some 300 members, who keep the club running and elect their own board. As a result, they have kept a vital community asset going in Enfield.

Co-operatives and mutuals can make an enormous difference in our communities. With the right legislative support, access to sensible finance and shrewd Government encouragement, they could do even more. I therefore have a series of questions that I hope the Minister will begin to address today—if not, I will be happy to hear his answers in due course. What further support might the Government offer to encourage the growth of energy co-operatives? Will he seek to emulate the US, where 12% of the population get their energy from a co-operative, or Germany, where the figure is one in three people? How about a target to push the level of community energy ownership a stage further? What steps will he or other Ministers take to encourage local economic partnerships to support and develop co-operative, mutual or social enterprise businesses, creating local employment and growth in their communities, perhaps as part of future regional growth fund bids?

There has been some disappointment in the co-operative movement that the social investment tax relief, which was announced in the autumn statement and welcomed by many, will not cover investment in most co-operative societies or community credit unions. One of the biggest challenges facing co-operatives today is the ability to access finance to support growth, as I am sure the Minister is aware. Considering the important contribution that co-operatives and mutuals make to local communities, I hope that Ministers might be persuaded, even at this late stage, to intercede with the Treasury on this important point.

The Government have encouraged Britain’s banks to publish data on local lending patterns. I understand that the first comprehensive set of postcode lending data will be made available in January. I hope it will begin to expose the lending deserts that we know exist in the UK, where access to affordable credit for individuals and, crucially, to small and medium-sized businesses is particularly bad. I offer the Minister the example of Thamesmead in south London, which is an area of 55,000 households with no bank. Indeed, the nearest branch is some 35 to 45 minutes away by bus. Not surprisingly, there are high levels of payday loan usage and a high take-up of “Provy” loans. What provisions will Ministers put in place, once those data are made available, to encourage banks to work much better with local organisations, co-operatives, mutuals, social enterprises and even charities to respond to the needs of their areas?

What actions will Ministers take to encourage housing co-operatives? Will the Minister instruct the Homes and Communities Agency to allocate a proportion of its apparently considerable capital funds for new affordable housing to support housing co-operatives? Will the Minister particularly look at the suggestion advocated by my hon. Friend the Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) that the Government adopt the approach taken by the Welsh Assembly and recognise co-operative housing in law, as it is in much of the rest of Europe? What action will Ministers take to encourage lottery operators to support a new strand of community resilience projects to help make start-up support available for new co-operative and mutual initiatives?

Those are the ideas and questions that I have gently offered to the House today, and I hope they will be seen by the Minister as a genuine attempt to encourage new ways of driving continued growth in the co-operative and mutual sector—a sector that I believe offers considerable benefit not only to my community, but to communities across the UK.

Higher Education Policy

Debate between Gareth Thomas and Stella Creasy

Wednesday 27th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Stella Creasy]

Does my hon. Friend also think that there is considerable uncertainty for students such as Nancy Quilliam, from Walthamstow, who has deferred entry? She is being asked to pick a university by next Thursday, but she cannot find out how much she will be charged—she has no certainty about the rate of fees—so risks incurring a further £9,000 of debt. Is that not another level of uncertainty that the system has created for students across the country?

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that our students or would-be students face huge uncertainty about the fees that they will incur. Perhaps if the Government had published the White Paper that they promised to publish even early this year, her constituents might have had just a little bit of certainty. Is not the truth that Ministers in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills have failed to stop other parts of Government creating huge uncertainty for Britain’s universities, thereby creating incentives for fees to be higher rather than lower?

Higher Education Fees

Debate between Gareth Thomas and Stella Creasy

Thursday 9th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Owen Smith]

rose—

[Dr Creasy]

rose—

[Mr Thomas]

Let me just make this point. Even Ireland—which we are all watching closely, because the Chancellor of the Exchequer tells us that there is an economic miracle going on that we should emulate—is not cutting its university teaching budgets by 80%, nor is it increasing student fees threefold. The proposals before the House tonight are what happens when Conservative Chancellors of the Exchequer are allowed to run the Treasury unchecked.

[Dr Creasy]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is impossible to explain to students in Walthamstow, where there has been an 87% increase in people who go to university, that the proposals are fair, when the Government are rowing back on the bankers’ levy? Does that not show what their priorities are for this country?

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point about the stark contrast between what the Government said they would do when in opposition, and what they are doing in government.

The second myth that Government Members have peddled is that the responsible position was to change the balance in funding between graduates and the Government. That might have been a reasonable line if a slight shift was involved, but the Government have thrown away the scales and are loading the whole cost —not a bigger part, but the whole cost—of a university education on to the graduate, particularly for art, social science and humanities courses.

The Deputy Prime Minister tells us that social mobility will not suffer. The money for widening participation, for championing the brightest and best from low-income backgrounds, and for helping mature students to do part-time courses is being axed. As the hon. Member for Winchester said, Aimhigher, the premier programme for widening participation, has been abolished. As Labour Members have said, the education maintenance allowance, which helps low income students, will stop in January. The widening participation premium that is paid to universities to help them recruit and retain those from disadvantaged backgrounds is expected to be cut.

Consumer Credit Regulation

Debate between Gareth Thomas and Stella Creasy

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Westminster Hall

[Stella Creasy]

The hon. Gentleman makes a fair comment. The point behind today’s debate is that there is overwhelming evidence that we can and should intervene, and there is certainly concern about the situation among Labour Members. The credit review offers us, if anything, an opportunity to look at how we can intervene and how the law could be amended. The fact that that is not happening is a travesty, so I hope that coalition Members will challenge the Government to expand the scope of the credit review so that it covers these issues.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for securing the debate. Will she join me in asking the Minister to clarify the Government’s intentions on the consumer advocate? There has been some speculation that they are keen to go ahead with that position, which was first suggested in a White Paper by the previous Government, but there is still no actual detail. A consumer advocate could play a crucial role in that area, so it would be good to hear the Government’s intentions on that.

[Stella Creasy]

My hon. Friend makes an incredibly fair point. I certainly hope that the Minister will address that, along with the credit review and the role that credit unions could play within post offices.

I certainly want more direct financial support for organisations that provide advocacy services and support people who get into debt. The model that we can learn from is that of the drinks industry. In 2007, following public concern about alcopops and the need to address binge drinking, the industry responded by setting up and funding Drinkaware, an independent charity administering grants to tackle alcohol misuse. Each year it raises around £2.6 million from alcoholic drink makers and retailers, which is then used to raise awareness about alcohol and encourage sensible drinking. My Consumer Credit (Regulation and Advice) Bill proposes that a levy should be imposed on organisations selling credit, which would be used to fund a similar grant scheme. That could be accessed by a range of organisations providing debt management counselling or financial literacy services. Counsellors could give one-on-one sessions to families to help them get back on their feet by negotiating with creditors, helping them to navigate the support to which they are entitled and identifying how best they can live within their means.

Supporting those whose lives are ruled by debt requires more than informal advice. R3, the insolvency practitioners’ industry body, notes that one in five of their clients did not seek help earlier because they had no idea who to turn to for help. I welcome the Government’s continued support for the previous Administration’s work on a levy on dormant bank accounts for that purpose, but I hope that they will recognise the need for both financial advice services and specific advocacy services, such as the excellent work undertaken by organisations such as the Consumer Credit Counselling Service, Citizens Advice and Christians Against Poverty. The Moneymadeclear service, as it is currently set out, will not be the same thing, and we must ensure that both are available if we are to address these challenges. Does the Minister recognise the need to provide specialist financial advice and advocacy services to help people who get into debt, and will he commit to setting up a fund to support those services directly, as I propose in my Bill?

We have covered many complicated issues today. Just to be clear, I will end my remarks by repeating the three clear commitments that I want the Government to tell us, on record, whether they will make. First, will the Minister commit to expanding the credit review, to consulting on powers to cap the total lending costs, and to exploring caps on different interest rates for different types of loans? Secondly, will he commit to financing the integration of the post office network with the credit union network to enable them to share back-office technology and thus support each other? Finally, will he commit to a levy on those who sell credit to create a dedicated fund for debt advice and advocacy services?

Failure to act on those matters would not come at a worse time for many of Britain’s families. We know that if the Government are intent on pushing their Budget on Britain, they will raise the number of families in our communities living with the daily misery of debt. They therefore must take responsibility for their actions. They must give the same consideration to the needs of those for whom the never-never is a fact of life as they do for those who have Amex cards or a trust fund. I hope that the Minister will give us three yeses today so that we can make progress on those matters.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Thomas]

As the hon. Gentleman says, there has been a broader call for evidence. I hope the Minister will use the debate to call for further evidence about, and embrace, the areas that my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow championed in the debate and in her ten-minute rule Bill.

[Stella Creasy]

I am sure my hon. Friend will agree that it is one thing to ask the question, but the challenge is to set out that the answers will be listened to. The Government have, so far, only formally committed to looking at the cost of borrowing on credit and store cards in the remit of the credit review. They might be asking for evidence on the broader credit market, but there has been no equivalent firm commitment. The hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) is shaking his head, but I can show him the details on the BIS website; it is outlined clearly. The Government are looking at the interest rate cap on credit and store cards only, and I am specifically asking for the review to be expanded to cover all forms of lending, so that it looks at the market for the poorest consumers.

[Mr Thomas]

I trust that the Minister will clarify his intentions on that. The review should look at the three specific issues that my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow raised.

The hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) made an interesting speech extolling the importance of credit unions—as did my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow—as a crucial alternative to some of the most costly parts of the consumer credit industry. He said, rightly, that the issue is not new, but the market is continuing to change. He also raised the issue of the importance of education, as did the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), whose initiative in setting up the all-party group I commend.

The hon. Member for East Hampshire alluded, I think sympathetically, to considering how to regulate the worst excesses of the market. He made the important point that the consumer credit industry, as part of the financial services industry, plays a crucial role in helping our economy to function effectively; nevertheless, there is genuine concern about some activities of the most controversial part of the consumer credit industry, that which provides pay-day loans.

As others have touched on, it is crucial that we consider access to affordable credit beyond the consumer credit industry, such as through credit unions and community finance organisations. The issue is about not only financial education in schools but access to financial education and assistance outside the school environment through debt advice services, and about how we bear down on illegal activity such as loan sharking.