National Health Service

Frank Dobson Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andy Burnham]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the waste of money the Government have brought into the NHS through this reorganisation. The total is over £3 billion. That is simply unjustifiable at this time. Staff who had been working in primary care trusts are either being re-employed as consultants or are going into clinical commissioning groups. This is such a waste of money at a time when the NHS needed every penny to maintain standards of patient care.

I was talking about rationing, and let me focus on cataract surgery. GP magazine has found limits on cataract surgery in 66% of PCTs. The Royal National Institute of Blind People found that 58% of PCTs are using visual acuity thresholds to restrict surgery. This is the evidence, so the Secretary of State had better start listening. What has happened since those restrictions on cataract operations have been introduced? Unsurprisingly, the number of cataract operations in England fell by over 12,000 between 2010 and 2011. That is a direct result of the new restrictions. There is no less need, however. Thousands of older people need such procedures, but they are now being forced to live with very poor sight.

This is truly a false economy. Cataract surgery is one of the most cost-effective procedures carried out by the NHS. It helps people live independently and have a quality of life, and research has shown that in the last two years poor vision has been a factor in 270,000 falls by people aged 60 or over. This is the rationing by cost that Ministers have repeatedly denied is happening. So let me ask the Secretary of State again: does he agree with these restrictions on cataract surgery? If he does not, will he take immediate action to lift them?

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that under the last Labour Government the number of cataract operations carried out by the NHS rose from 160,000 a year to 310,000 a year, as a result of the commitment of the staff? What will the staff in the south-west think about all this if they have their pay cut?

[Andy Burnham]

For staff who are trying to hold things together through the chaos the Government have brought about, what a kick in the teeth it must have been to read in the Sunday newspapers that unless they accept pay cuts, they will be made redundant. My right hon. Friend says the staff made those improvements, but so did he. As the incoming Secretary of State, he made improvements to waiting times for cataract surgery, which, if I remember rightly, were commonly about a year in the late-1990s. We brought those waiting times right down. Now what do we hear? We hear that under this crowd people with two cataracts are being told, “You can have one done, but not both.” That is what the NHS has been reduced to under this Government. The Secretary of State has promised action, and I have given him the evidence. He now must take action.

The second area on which the Government need to be challenged is privatisation. As the debate on the Bill drew to a close, the Secretary of State made this clear statement:

“The legislation is absolutely clear that it does not lead to privatisation, it does not promote privatisation, it does not permit privatisation and it does not allow any increase in charges in the NHS.”—[Official Report, 27 March 2012; Vol. 542, c. 1335.]

It is hard to know where to start, but how about the NHS walk-in centre in Sheffield, which is managed by a private company and has just started charging patients with whiplash injuries £25 for treatment, or the NHS hospitals now marketing private treatments for in vitro fertilisation, cancer screening or bone screening since the cap was lifted? How about the letter sent to all PCTs requiring them to identify three or more services for tendering under the “any qualified provider” measure in 2012-13? How about the 100 or so tenders for a range of services that have been offered to the private sector on this Secretary of State’s watch, with a total value of more than £4 billion? So let me ask the Minister and the Secretary of State today: will they now at least be honest about their true intentions for the level of private sector involvement in the NHS?

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[Mr Dorrell]

The right hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but he said that he would repeal the Health and Social Care Act 2012, the result of which would be to commit the health service to precisely the kind of reorganisation—or re-disorganisation—that he accuses the Government of introducing.

The challenge for the Opposition is to show that they are willing to map a future for the health service, in much more constrained financial circumstances, that allows it to meet the demand for services that is going to be placed on it and to fulfil the aspirations that we all have for improved quality of service. That becomes increasingly difficult in the light of motions such as the one that the right hon. Gentleman has put down for the House to consider. He invites us to regret

“the increasing number of cost-driven reconfigurations of hospital services”

and

“growing private sector involvement in both the commissioning and provision of NHS services”.

Yet when he was Secretary of State and bore my right hon. Friend’s responsibilities for meeting this challenge, he made it clear that service reconfiguration was precisely how the health service needed to meet the challenges that it faced, and that the private sector had an important role—of course, not an exclusive role—in introducing the solutions to the challenge that Sir David Nicholson articulated in May 2009. The same approach was taken in the Labour party’s manifesto for the 2010 general election.

The challenge that the right hon. Gentleman has to address if he is to discharge his responsibilities as shadow Health Secretary is to move on from party political ding-dongs, of which we have had too many. [Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) is commenting from a sedentary position. I have always been aware that he, at least, does not agree with the commissioner-provider split that the shadow Health Secretary operated as Secretary of State and has always said that he is in favour of considering.

[Frank Dobson]

Would the right hon. Gentleman care to confirm for the House that in the last year when he was Secretary of State, NHS hospitals carried out 5.7 million operations and at the end of the Labour Government’s period in office it was carrying out 9.7 million operations?

[Mr Dorrell]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for drawing attention to the fact that throughout the history of the health service, under Governments of all political complexions, there has been a growth in the level of services, and improvement in the quality of services, provided to patients. It happened under the Tory Government of whom I was a member and under the Government of whom he was a member. Of course, that is delivered not by the politicians but by the doctors and nurses who work in the health service.

The challenge faced by the current generation of policy makers, including the shadow Health Secretary, is how to meet the rising demands and the requirement for improved quality in much more constrained financial circumstances than I or he faced as Secretaries of State. He signally failed to meet that challenge today.

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[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

We all know that the massive top-down reorganisation of the national health service that the Government have pushed through had not a jot of public support, that no one voted for it and that it was not mentioned in the famous coalition agreement. Nevertheless, it was proceeded with.

We are now faced with something that was not in the election manifesto of either of the Government parties. Nor, I suspect, was it in any of the election literature of any of the MPs from those parties in the south-west. I do not think that any of them said, to use the phrase of the Minister of State, Department of Health, the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), “We admire you people in the health service so much that we have decided that you will have to pay more for your pension and work longer, and that your pension will be smaller.” I do not think that any of the Lib Dem or Tory candidates in the south-west put in their leaflets, “We admire you people in the national health service so much that we intend to reduce your pay.” None of them said, “We admire you so much that we are going to reduce your entitlement to leave.” None of them has said, at a time when there is rightly increasing concern about the standard of care in hospitals at the weekend, “We intend to reduce or get rid of your overtime pay at weekends.” I would not wish to be admired by a Health Minister, because something nasty would clearly appear shortly afterwards.

People in the national health service are sick to death of this massive reorganisation, of thousands of their colleagues being made redundant, of people having to reapply for their own jobs, and of being expected to do their day job while falling into line with the preposterous ideas in the major health legislation that went through this House. On top of that, they are now being told that they cannot be paid what they used to be paid. Apparently, people in the south-west say, “Pay down here tends to be lower, so let’s reduce the higher pay of people in the public sector, such as those in the hospitals, to the miserable levels that the private sector pays people here.” It is not likely that giving people even lower pay, which is always associated with poor health, will improve the public health of people in the south-west, which the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who is herself a GP in the south-west, has talked about.

What the Government have done is disgraceful and is in clear breach of their manifesto commitments. They are now attacking people in the national health service. I laud and admire people who work in the national health service. There may be some bad ’uns—there are bad ’uns everywhere—but most of them work very hard and brilliantly on our behalf, none more so than those at University College hospital in my constituency and at the Kentish Town health centre, which I was happy to be at recently with Alan Bennett for the ceremony to celebrate 125 years of the Wigg practice, which serves people brilliantly. Believe me: when I talk to people at those two institutions, the main people who are denigrated are the Tory Ministers who have wished all this upon them. I join in that denigration.

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[Mr Lansley]

No.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Mr Dorrell) made an important point on the Nicholson challenge, which a number of Opposition Members mentioned. At least one or two of them had the good grace to recognise that David Nicholson’s proposals were set out in May 2009, under, and endorsed by, a Labour Government. Labour Members now want nothing to do with the consequences of meeting that financial challenge. They fail to recognise, as my right hon. Friend said, that the challenge was against the background of an expectation that a Labour Government would not increase the NHS budget, and that the challenge would have to be achieved within three years. The Conservative Government have increased the budget for the NHS. Over the course of this Parliament, it will go up by £12.5 billion, which represents a 1.8% increase in real terms. The right hon. Member for Leigh and his party were against that.

No Opposition Member recognised in the debate the simple fact that, in the first year of this Parliament, £4.3 billion of efficiency savings were achieved, and performance improved, across the NHS. That was not even in the time frame for the Nicholson challenge. We have now had one year of the challenge. The target was £5.9 billion of efficiency savings, and we achieved, across the NHS, £5.8 billion. Things are on track, which completely refutes the shadow Secretary of State’s argument that we cannot have reform and deliver on the financial challenge at the same time. Actually, we can do both, and in addition improve performance in the NHS.

The right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford) completely contradicted the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) on the South London Healthcare NHS trust. The latter said he was against changes at Queen Mary’s, Sidcup, but the former said that I did not get on with the changes soon enough. The hon. Member for Denton and Reddish complains from the Opposition Front Bench that I did not have a moratorium, but the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich complains because I did have one.

Let me be clear about this: I did introduce a moratorium, and the four tests. Reconfigurations that meet the four tests should go ahead, because they will improve clinical outcomes for patients, meet the needs of the people of that area, deliver on the intentions of local commissioners, and be in line with the views of the local public. If they meet the four tests, they should go ahead; if they do not, as my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Karen Lumley) made clear in respect of Worcestershire, they should not go ahead. That much is clear.

My hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew) made good points on how clinical commissioning is bringing improvements in musculoskeletal services. He also rightly made it clear, as the right hon. Member for Leigh did not, that Wales does not meet anything like the same standards as England and is cutting its NHS budget by 8.4%. We are increasing resources for the NHS in England and improving it. It is expected that, by the end of this Parliament, expenditure per head for the NHS in Wales will be below that of England. That is what we get from a Labour Government.

Let me reiterate to the hon. Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr Sharma) and my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray) a point I made a moment ago. The hon. Member for Ealing, Southall should admit that the plans being looked at in north-west London are entirely the same ones considered under a Labour Government before the election. I will insist that the plans are subjected to the four tests I have described. If they meet those four tests, they can go ahead; if not, they will not. I advise him to continue making speeches in the House, but also to ask the general practitioners and clinical commissioners in Ealing what they think is in the best interests of their patients—his constituents. That is a good basis to start with.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), and a number of other hon. Members, asked about the south-west pay consortium. When I went to the NHS pay review body just a couple of months or so ago, I made it very clear that the Government believe we should do everything we can to support NHS employers to have the flexibilities in the pay framework that are necessary for them to recruit, retain and motivate staff.

[Frank Dobson]

Meaning: pay staff less in the south-west.

[Mr Lansley]

The right hon. Gentleman should not interrupt from a sedentary position. I am answering the question. Members are interested in this. When I went to the pay review body, I made it clear that, in my view, we could achieve that through negotiations on the “Agenda for Change”. That continues to be my view, and the south-west pay consortium makes it clear in its documentation that it supports such a negotiation. It is right to pursue such a negotiation nationally and for local pay flexibilities to be used in the national pay framework. That is what most NHS employers do, with the exception of Southend.

I have made it clear, as the Minister of State, Department of Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns) has, that we are not proposing any reductions in pay as a consequence. I do not believe they are necessary or desirable in achieving the efficiency challenge.