Domestic Abuse Bill (Second sitting)

Fay Jones Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 4th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

Q I am over here, in Welsh corner. I am pleased that you mentioned rural areas, because I represent Brecon and Radnorshire, which has a large border with England. I am very interested to know, building on your earlier answer, what you see as a practical difficulty that could arise from any divergence between England and Wales, if you see any such divergence. Then I will have a quick follow-up question.

Sara Kirkpatrick: Again, it is about being cognisant of that and ensuring the alignment. The other thing is that, from my experience of working with victims and survivors, they are quite mobile—both victims and survivors, and perpetrators. Sometimes, it is not just about how we choose to enact; it is about where people choose to engage. While they might be on one side of the border, the services they choose to access, where they connect or where their family lives might be on the other side of that border. That feels like an important consideration.

We are supposed to be providing services and making legislation that fits the needs of survivors, rather than expecting survivors to fit the offer of the legislation. That is often a challenge we are presented with: we create some rules and ask people to fit them. To me, the big thing about the border would be to be aware that people move on either side of it. Again, it is about making sure that there is alignment, so that people are not disadvantaged. It is also about being clear, so that people know on which side and what would benefit them.

Is that a clear enough answer? I don’t want to ramble, and I feel I have covered it.

[Fay Jones]

Q It was. The Home Office funds some programme that Welsh Women’s Aid runs, particularly one around early intervention on perpetrators. Will you talk about some of the successes that has had?

Sara Kirkpatrick: Are you talking about Change that Lasts?

[Fay Jones]

Yes.

Sara Kirkpatrick: Excellent. That is a relief. Welsh Women’s Aid and the Women’s Aid Federation of England came up with the Change that Lasts model initially. It is a three-stage model, which looks not only at early intervention but at community awareness, training of professionals and specialist support services. We both—Welsh Women’s Aid and Women’s Aid Federation England—got into partnership with Respect, which is actually my formal employer. Change that Lasts in Wales is my former baby, and it is about an early intervention offer.

I was heartened to hear what Simon said earlier about not waiting until people need rehousing. The Change that Lasts approach, and the perpetrator strand of that approach, is about recognising that not all those who are using harmful behaviour are yet entrenched perpetrators of domestic abuse who are using patterns of abusive behaviour. Some people, in my experience, are concerned about their behaviour at an early stage. They seek support from GPs and citizens advice bureaux, and they have been known to seek support from faith leaders.

If there is an offer out there where people can address and consider their own behaviour, consider the impact of their behaviour and be given simple strategies to do something differently, there is no guarantee that they will take those strategies on board, but, by creating a narrative that says, “The problem is that you are choosing to use problematic behaviour, and there is an opportunity to make a different choice”, we move the responsibility to where it should be. We move the responsibility, and that is the idea behind Change that Lasts, the perpetrator strand, which is being delivered in Wales.

Change that Lasts has got some really promising results on the early engagement. The feedback is that people are attending and remaining engaged. These are self-referral clients, and the feedback from their partners is that it has been a positive and beneficial experience. I do not want to overclaim, because it is in its early stages—it is being evaluated by London Metropolitan University—but the early signs are that when you meet someone early in their journey and you give them an opportunity to make changes, some of the grasp the opportunity.

[Virginia Crosbie]

Q Thank you for coming, Sara. You spoke about the challenges of rural. What additional challenges have you had with the coronavirus and with actually getting victims to come forward? How have you encouraged people to come forward?

Sara Kirkpatrick: Some of the ways that people have been encouraged to come forward are that in the country a lot of promotion has been done—putting messages out about the Live Fear Free helpline, using social media, and engaging with both local celebrities and local politicians—and somehow I have managed to be a local celebrity and do a video.

There is that idea about putting simple, non-targeted messages in as many places as we can. Local supermarkets have been putting leaflets, just with information about the Live Fear Free helpline, into all shopping deliveries. One of the nice things about a non-targeted offer is that it does not arouse the suspicions of a perpetrator, because everybody gets it. When a targeted offer is made, it has the potential to increase risk.

That is some of what is being done; it is just that much more general putting the message out there, over and over again. In terms of rural communities, what we are hearing is that, because rural is more difficult from that point of view—there is limited access to transport and so on, so at this point everybody is quite isolated—people who were already isolated are consequently more isolated, because they have no neighbours. There is no network that you can run to if you would want to. So it is much harder.

Covid-19: UK Border Health Measures

Fay Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

The hon. Lady will be well aware that we are working not just with SAGE but with representatives of SAGE in Departments across Government, and that is the scientific advice that we as Ministers are guided by. It is important to consider this in terms of the entire period from January to March and the enhanced measures that were taken at the border. It is important to recall and be very mindful of the enhanced public health protection measures that were undertaken. Had those measures not been put in place, the severity of what could have followed could have been even more damaging than we have seen over the recent months.

[Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

I welcome the introduction of a self-isolation period for those arriving in the UK. Like the Government, I want to do all that I can to protect rural mid-Wales from a second spike in the virus. What discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the Welsh Government and with rural police forces to ensure that these measures can be enforced in a four-nation approach?

[Priti Patel]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to the devolved Administrations. The shadow Home Secretary, hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds), asked me about the time period in respect of when this was announced and these measures now coming into place. Much of this has been complicated because of the different approach in terms of the powers that are devolved, particularly in relation to enforcement. The devolved Administrations will of course be introducing their own regulations on enforcement, but we have had constant contact and discussion across the four nations with the devolved Administrations from the get-go—from the outset—and that will of course continue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Fay Jones Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

Let me give the hon. Gentleman, his constituents and all public health workers in that category reassurance. Some very fast work is taking place at the Home Office right now to look at exactly that issue. I would be very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman outlining that work.

[Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

T5. A huge amount of tourists came flooding to my constituency of Brecon and Radnorshire at the weekend. But, as beautiful as it is, Powys simply cannot cope with visitors at the moment. I am urging people to stay away from the area, as visiting puts a huge strain on our already stretched rural resources—not least our police force. What can the Home Office do to ensure that members of Dyfed-Powys police and other forces across the UK are protected as they carry out this vital work?

[Priti Patel]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise her concerns, which have been echoed in the House today. She does have a beautiful constituency and an incredible police force, which I pay tribute to. The police have robust contingency arrangements. They have the ability to work with others in the community and alongside the other emergency services to ensure that we stop people from behaving irresponsibly. I restate the message that everyone should take responsibility and follow the Government’s advice. This is about saving and protecting lives, and we all have a duty to follow that advice.