Rural Phone and Broadband Connectivity
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of Didcot(9 years, 3 months ago)
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Eric Ollerenshaw
I agree, but that is not happening. The market is not yet delivering. Where it is not delivering, the Government should be delivering, in terms of planning regulations at the very least.
On the roll-out of broadband, to be fair, the Government took the decision in 2010, which we all welcomed, to do something for that section of the rural community that had been left out for so long, as my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) pointed out. Villages in Lancashire are being connected. It may be fast or slow in certain areas, but some of those contracts are being delivered. As the Minister knows, I, like other hon. Members, was concerned about the missing 5%. I was approached by a group led by Professor Barry Forde of Lancaster university, who said that the BT contracts could not work because of the copper to fibre issue, so BT would be unable to deliver the speeds that it had promised. [Interruption.]
Mr Vaizey
I would be happy to offer my hon. Friend a glass of water for his cough, but we are out of water. I see that the military prowess of my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) has kicked in—he is bringing a glass of water.
As you well know, Mr Deputy Speaker, I was up in your constituency just this week, and a beautiful part of the country it is.
Mr Vaizey
I am sorry—last week. The weeks tend to blend into one. Some £50 million, 98% coverage in Lancashire, and 150,000 premises—that has to be something to shout about, and I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) will do so once he has had a drink of water.
Eric Ollerenshaw
I am grateful for the Minister’s intervention. He is right, and I paid tribute to that.
Back to the missing 5%: the group led by Barry Forde suggested that it would take up the 5% with a not-for-profit social enterprise and deliver hyperfast super-broadband—that is, 1 gigabit—to every property within a defined area. The group approached me as a constituency MP. The group eventually became known as B4RN—Broadband for the Rural North. I can tell my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) that B4RN does not lie between Lancashire and Yorkshire. It is based in Lancashire, but gives some help to Yorkshire, as usual.
What the members of the group proposed to do seemed incredible at the time, but they have set about doing that since 2010 and have now wired up every single property in the villages of Arkholme, Abbeystead, Aughton, Capernwray, Dolphinholme, Gressingham, Newton, Docker, Littledale, Quernmore, Roeburndale, Wray, Wennington and Tatham, and soon to be connected are Melling, Whittington and Wrayton. The group is looking to wire up 2,500 people with 1 gigabit of speed. Already we have interest from businesses, doing the very thing that my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness hopes will happen, which want to move into the area that B4RN covers because of the potential offered by this hyperfast broadband delivery.
The history is interesting. When the group decided to do that in 2010-11, members applied for some of the funding from BDUK, but the district council and the county rolled up all the funds and gave all the grants to BT, which resulted in B4RN complaining to the European Commission about the use of state aid. B4RN agreed to drop the complaint provided that the county would protect its postcode areas, as against BT’s scheme.
Hon. Members have mentioned the situation of BT, and I have brought up before the near-monopoly that exists.
Eric Ollerenshaw
Absolutely. As we have heard hon. Members shout from across the Chamber, it is the behaviour of a monopoly.
Another characteristic of a monopoly is a lack of transparency. Let me give another example. Two weeks ago a resident of the village of Scorton, which was to be wired up by BT, approached me to say that he was having problems getting in touch with BT to find out what was going on. He runs a medium-sized engineering company from home with national contracts. I took the first step of any constituency MP and asked BT what was going on. I was told that there were technical difficulties. Eventually, I went to meet the resident in Scorton and found that he had been told that BT was now de-scoping the area because it was too difficult—I had been told one story, and he had been told another.
I am still waiting, three years down the line, for BT to hand me a map showing exactly what it is doing. Let me explain to hon. Members that these are villages up in the Pennines. Then there are places, such as Glasson Dock, which lies on flat land on the coast just beyond Lancaster, that BT is not wiring up, even though there are more residents there than in Dolphinholme, where it is delivering fibre, fibre, fibre. I know that the Public Accounts Committee has looked at the situation, but I would ask it to look again at the BT situation.
Eric Ollerenshaw
I beg to differ. Perhaps the Select Committee that looked at it here could recall BT. I have made inquiries about how to get the competition authorities to look at the situation. This is the behaviour of a monopoly: there is no transparency, we are not being told what is going on, and indeed we are being given disinformation.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of Didcot(9 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr Vaizey
No, I do not accept that at all. The plan was drawn up to encourage open competition, but it is important to remember that anyone who bid for this funding had to allow competitors to use a publicly funded network. BT was the only company prepared to accept those recommendations. In urban areas, there is plenty of healthy competition, and I note that in the east end of London—an area she so ably represents—Virgin Media is now investing in increasing its footprint, covering an additional 100,000 premises.
Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)
15. On broadband connections, will the Minister find out why new housing developments, such as the Quay and Moor hospital site in Lancaster, can be built with no telephone or internet connection until a resident moves in and then has to rely on BT to put the connections in at whatever leisurely pace BT chooses?
Mr Vaizey
We have sat down with various telephone companies— including BT, but also Virgin Media and other companies such as Hyperoptic— and developers to work out a protocol to ensure that all new developments are notified to these telcos. Only this morning I received a letter from the chief executive of BT Openreach, which talked about the progress made and the additional engineers hired.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of Didcot(9 years, 8 months ago)
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Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)
T4. Given the importance of superfast broadband to businesses in both rural and urban communities, what is the Department doing about BT’s near-monopoly in contracts, which is leading to BT now missing out whole villages and even sections of Lancaster city in my constituency of Lancaster and Fleetwood?
The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy (Mr Edward Vaizey)
I am happy to meet my hon. Friend to talk about the specific circumstances in his constituency. I would say to him that our broadband roll-out programme has now covered more than 1 million homes, and we are covering about 40,000 homes a week. We are going flat-out on this, and we are achieving great success.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of Didcot(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)
T2. Given BT’s virtual monopoly in contracts for superfast broadband and the problems with that company that have been raised by hon. Members today and previously, is it not about time that the Government held an inquiry into its performance, or would that be better done by the competition authorities?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)
The National Audit Office conducted an inquiry. I am confident that BT is doing its job incredibly effectively. We are passing a total of 20,000 premises a week with broadband, and that figure will soon be up to 40,000 a week. More than £60 million has been allocated to Lancashire and more than 130,000 homes there will get superfast broadband as a result.
Broadband (North of England)
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of DidcotWestminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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Mr Vaizey
We expect to spend a substantial proportion of it. We want cities and councils to work with local businesses and encourage them to take up the money. I am not one to oppose underspend in a Government programme, but the money is available if businesses want to use it. We will not spend money for the sake of it, however.
My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood raised B4RN and asked whether he could get a map of Lancashire. We strongly support rural community broadband schemes. At the outset of the programme, we put aside £10 million from the BDUK money and £10 million from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to create a £20 million fund to support community broadband schemes. There is a reason why it can be difficult to get such schemes off the ground, because we are dealing with state aid and a complicated process for accessing public money in compliance with Commission guidelines. I am confident that we are ready to help when problems arise, however.
My understanding is that Superfast Lancashire, which is responsible for delivering the programme, is in discussions with B4RN about the footprint where it wants to bring its community network. Superfast Lancashire is also in discussions with BT about how BT can accommodate B4RN’s commercial desires. Nobody is trying to stop B4RN doing what it is doing. My understanding—my hon. Friend may correct me if I am wrong—is that Dolphinholme, the village that he mentioned, was part of the contract with Lancashire when it was signed, and Lancashire county council decided where that broadband should go.
Mr Vaizey
Before my hon. Friend responds to that point, if that is what he wants to do, it is important to stress as a matter of principle that the broadband roll-out is dictated by the county council. Obviously, it is done in association with BT, because BT will make recommendations to the county council about where it is cheapest to go and where it will get more effective spend for its money, but the county council is in charge. It is also in charge of the map, and there is one on the Superfast Lancashire site that shows, broadly speaking, where broadband is due to be delivered.
Eric Ollerenshaw
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. He is right to say “broadly speaking”, because the map does not tell me which villages are in or out. I said that there was some confusion right at the beginning, on both sides, about Dolphinholme’s position in the original agreements, but it has only 181 inhabitants. It is right in the hills between the villages that B4RN is covering.
Does the Minister agree that it seems remarkably odd that a company as large as BT should suddenly move into that village in the hills, when it is saying that other villages—Glasson Dock, for example—and other parts of the Lancaster urban area are still waiting for connectivity? Why should BT suddenly concentrate on that particular area? That is what questions are being asked about. I will repeat myself: I would prefer a much more detailed map.
Mr Vaizey
I must say to my hon. Friend that my understanding was that Lancashire county council decided that Dolphinholme should get superfast broadband, so that is a matter for Lancashire county council. If I am wrong about that, I will apologise. I will double-check that with the county council and get back to my hon. Friend, but that is my understanding.
As far as the map is concerned, we are dealing with expectation management, if I can put it that way. I do not think that BT has made any attempt to stay under the radar to ambush local community providers. The local authority is in charge of the map, and there is nothing to stop it publishing a map, however detailed. It is also in charge of expectation management. When on the ground delivering broadband, circumstances can change. When the van and tools arrive in a particular area, it might turn out that it is going to be three times more expensive than expected. Another area might turn out to be twice as easy as expected.
If someone told a Mr Ollerenshaw, for example, that he was going to get superfast broadband in September 2014, but they then discovered either that that was not going to be economical and they were going to go somewhere else or that he was not going to get it until March 2015, they would have to manage his expectations. It is true that the Superfast Lancashire map gives some details, saying, “We are currently mapping this area and looking to come here”, but it does not give every single address, and it allows people to know when they are going to get superfast broadband only once the roll-out has been started in a particular area. I understand that people can type in their postcode or telephone number.
Mr Vaizey
It is not a question of handing over responsibility for the maps to local authorities; they are our partners in delivery and we respect their right to manage their local broadband roll-out plans. We provided the framework contract, which means that local authorities do not have to reinvent the wheel when negotiating a contract with a broadband provider. We provide the money, which they use in partnership with us, and they are the ones on the ground delivering broadband. Although I would like to take a lot of the credit for the success of the broadband programme, it is important that North Yorkshire, Lancashire and other county councils across the north of England also take credit for the excellent job that they have done on delivery.
The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland keeps saying that the north is forgotten, but I well remember my recent visit to Durham, where Digital Durham is showing that that is a fantastic local authority with a huge hunger to deliver superfast broadband to its residents.
Eric Ollerenshaw
I thank my hon. Friend for giving way a second time. No one is questioning BT having won all these contracts, but I do not think that there is another historical example in local government of one company winning every single contract in every single local authority. Does that not suggest that we might need a new mechanism for comparing BT’s performance in one area with its performance in another? It is currently impossible to make such a comparison. The Minister says that the maps are the responsibility of the local authority, but the local authority has a contract with BT, as does the neighbouring local authority and the one after that. Who is going to manage BT’s performance? It seems to be becoming a sole provider.
Mr Vaizey
We are managing BT’s performance in the sense that BDUK audits what it is doing. It is important to stress that, for example, BT has already effectively delivered a Government-enabled programme in both Northern Ireland and Cornwall. I cannot swear to the exact figures because they are not in my briefing, but from memory BT was originally planning to reach about 80% of homes in Cornwall. However, because of the success of the programme—the costs on the ground were lower and take-up was higher than expected—my understanding is that BT will now probably reach about 90%, if not 95%, of homes in Cornwall under the same programme with the same money.
We audit everything that BT does, and local authorities do not pay the company until they get a receipt for work done. BT has already spent money, up-front, for which it has not yet been remunerated. The National Audit Office said that our plans were good value for taxpayers and reduced risk. I went on the record and did the media rounds with the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge), when her original report was published. I challenged every finding of the Public Accounts Committee and continue to do so. I did not appear in the media the most recent time around because the BBC did not invite me to challenge the right hon. Lady’s views and she was given a free ride to put across her point of view about our broadband programme. I will go on any television or radio programme with her, at any time, to debate the issue, because I am utterly confident that our programme is complete value for money.
This ill behoves the Labour party, given that we had to write off £50 million from the programme put in place in South Yorkshire under the previous Government. We had to write off that money because they built an infrastructure but did not get any customers. Under the current programme, we have passed almost 400,000 homes and will soon pass 40,000 homes every single week.
I do not resile from praising BT as a great British company doing a great job for Britain. I do not think that we praise our home-grown companies enough. By the way, it is interesting that the BT trade unions did not agree with the Public Accounts Committee report—that is worth noting. I have been told about BT engineers, up to their shoulders in water over the winter, still trying to get the job done as the floods were coming in. It is testament to the BT engineers delivering the programme on the ground that although the floods have had an impact—you will know about that from your local knowledge, Mr Sanders—they have not knocked the programme off course.
Everyone in the House agrees about the importance of broadband and superfast broadband. The figures speak for themselves: the programme is well under way, all the contracts are signed and the issue is now about delivery. There will always be concerns about value for money, about where broadband is going and about community programmes, which deserve their opportunity to deliver broadband. We continue to address all such concerns, but no one can deny that we are now delivering one of the best broadband programmes in the developed world. In the weeks when we have overtaken Germany in availability of broadband, we should, as I said at the beginning, be looking at a glass that is very much half full, rather than half empty.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of Didcot(10 years, 4 months ago)
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Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)
T8. Following on from the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) on arts disparities, may I raise a further complication? When the Arts Council for London, or the English Arts Council—London based—finds itself in the north-west it never usually goes much further than Manchester and Liverpool.
Local Newspapers
Debate between Eric Ollerenshaw and Lord Vaizey of DidcotWestminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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Mr Vaizey
As I said earlier, we should recognise that local newspapers take their responsibilities in this area seriously. The editor of The Oxford Times, Simon O’Neill, made the point that, although it has had radically to reduce its headcount because of commercial pressures, nevertheless it has tried to do that in the back office. I regret anyone’s losing their job, but that paper has focused on maintaining the quality of its journalism.
Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)
On the point made well by my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Louise Mensch) about the uneven playing field in terms of council so-called free sheets, might it help the market to require councils to charge for each free sheet and thereby see how many they sell? That would bring competition back into the local market.
Mr Vaizey
As my hon. Friend is aware, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government made it one of his priorities when we came into office to consider council free sheets. We introduced a code of recommended practice a year ago, at the end of March 2011. Local authorities have to take account of that statutory guidance, restricting the number of newsletters that local authorities can issue quarterly. For example, I know anecdotally that Hammersmith and Fulham now produces its own free sheet as part of the local newspaper, the Fulham and Hammersmith Chronicle. So in effect, rather than being a competitor of the local newspaper, the council has ended up subsidising it, if one wants to use that word.