Broadband (North of England)

Eric Ollerenshaw Excerpts

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Westminster Hall

[Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sanders, and to be able to speak in this debate to balance the Yorkshire impact from Lancashire. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones). Even though he comes from Yorkshire, he makes a good case.

First, I put on record my belief that the Government’s roll-out of superfast broadband has the potential to transform the rural economy and in particular the nature and future of our rural villages. In simple terms, villages in my area of the north-west, as in many parts of the country, have suffered the loss of shops and businesses to more urban areas, to the extent that many have now in effect become dormitory housing for the nearest big towns, retirement villages, or a combination of both. I will not rub it in, but in the last year of the previous Government, we lost six rural post offices, which were virtually the last shops in the villages concerned. My village schools, however, have gone from strength to strength, simply because of the high quality of the education, and they are now attracting pupils back from the urban areas. I am grateful to the Government, which only recently introduced funding protections for those small schools. As my hon. Friend laid out, the broadband programme has the potential to reverse that rural decline and to bring back what I call “live” villages, where businesses operate and activity returns in the daytime. Where villages have been hooked up, there is clear evidence of businesses wanting to get back into and operate in them.

It is great that the Government have now decided to add to the pot of money to achieve even wider superfast broadband coverage—we hope to 97% of such areas. It is so transformational that it will have an impact on regional imbalance and the so-called north-south divide, giving a chance for regional and rural business to compete with the best down south without relocating. That is a key plus. Originally in my area, it was clear that the contracts would cover only 93%, and it seemed unlikely that coverage would get up into the villages in the hills above Lancaster, in the trough of Bowland and the Lune valley. There would therefore be a problem about what was happening in the low land and what was happening in the high land. It also seemed likely, given what we have seen throughout the country, that BT would yet again win the contract, and BT could not guarantee either that it would cover every property in an area or the speed—it was only in terms of average speeds.

As a result, a local community group got going in my area, led by Professor Barry Forde, formerly a professor at Lancaster university, and ably supported by some keen enthusiasts such as Chris Condor and Martyn Dews. They put together a social enterprise company to reach the areas that could not be reached. It offered to lay fibre to every single household in the areas for which it got responsibility, leaving no one out. On top of that, it guaranteed 1 gigabit of speed to every single household, which BT could not do. There were various negotiations with the county, but the company was allowed to experiment. I have to put it on the record that at the beginning even I was wondering whether it could manage all that. The whole purpose of the social enterprise was that the costs would not be the same as for BT because farmers would lay cables across their land without the need to obtain wayleaves and in return would receive superfast speed without having to pay the same rental charge because they had allowed their land to be dug to lay the fibre.

There were questions about whether there would be problems in certain areas and whether people would be involved and buy shares in the social enterprise. Interestingly, three or four years down the line, the enterprise has happened. It is called broadband for the rural north—B4RN—and the indication was that the outline plan could cover 3,500 households in the hills above Lancaster, although there was some dispute about that. It applied to the rural communities broadband fund, but unfortunately Lancaster district council had already applied with Lancashire county council, and the contract for most of the county went to BT. The county council and district council wanted to cover the largest possible part of Lancashire so it is understandable that most of the grant went into the big pot.

BT obtained the major contract, and B4RN dug its way across the hills, but BT then refused to say which 3% of the region would not be covered by its network. That forced B4RN to lodge a complaint with the European Commission about Lancashire county council’s use of state aid, and delayed matters even further. B4RN agreed to drop its complaint if the county council would protect B4RN’s postcode areas from BT’s rival scheme. It then seemed that B4RN could get moving, and Arkholme, Quernmore, Abbeystead and the hamlets of Littledale and Roeburndale are now wired up with 1 gigabit to every house and farm and no one is left out.

That is a demonstration of the big society, but there were frustrations along the way. For example, it was necessary to take a cable across one of Network Rail’s bridges, which carried an average of six trains a day. We got Network Rail down to show it that the fibre cable would lie on the bank, which was nearly 12 feet—I still use imperial measurements—from the railway line. Would Network Rail agree to that? Unfortunately it would not, because it might set a precedent and there would have to be rental to the community project. Failure to obtain Network Rail’s agreement added to costs because B4RN had to drill under the ground. That community group was strong and just kept going when such obstacles arose.

I, the local MP, B4RN, the community group, and most people in that part of Lancashire still do not have a map of which areas BT will or will not cover. B4RN put Abbeystead and Quernmore villages, which are on my patch, on to cable, but in between is another village, Dolphinholme, which has 181 inhabitants. B4RN had to take cable through it because it is between Abbeystead and Quernmore. However, out of the blue, BT suddenly started to fibre up Dolphinholme, a tiny village in the hills. However, it decided that one of my biggest villages in the lowland, Glasson Dock, will not be fibred up to receive superfast broadband, yet it can provide it to a tiny village in the hills, miles away from anywhere, which just happens to be next to the community group’s project.

I found out only this week that on the other side of the community group’s project at Wennington in the hills, BT is offering to pay farmers £4.50 or £5.50 a metre to lay its fibre cable across their land. B4RN, of course, cannot offer money. It can only offer a return to the community group. B4RN tried to obtain a map from BT, but I am now being contacted by constituents in my biggest urban area, the city of Lancaster, asking when they will have superfast broadband. The hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) referred to a business park. I have a business park in my constituency, the White Cross estate. It is supposed to be a start-up area for new businesses, but BT has not provided it with superfast broadband, yet it has taken it up into the hills next to a community group.

What is going on? I am a Conservative and I believe in competition. BT is receiving Government grant, but B4RN receives no grant and is a community effort with community money. It seems to everyone in B4RN’s area that BT is using its strength to surround and hem in the only existing tiny piece of competition in the great county of Lancashire. There are serious questions about what is going on. The community group is struggling. It does not have the time to go to law because it is digging to put in fibre and running it into people’s homes, and it is training people to use superfast broadband’s potential. Businesses ask me where B4RN is going with 1 gigabit speed because they want to relocate into that area. High-tech companies want to relocate to the highest and most rural part of my constituency to have access to speed that is not available in any major town in this country, but BT seems determined to hem in that little bit of competition.

The remaining roll-out is critical to the north and my rural areas. Will the Minister ask his Department to take a serious look at BT’s behaviour in north-west Lancashire and provide what help it can to the big society and community groups that are doing their best to provide 1 gigabit speed to every household, which BT cannot even dream of doing? I have recently had meetings with BT, which has promised to provide maps of where its network will be, but I have still not received them. Even when it covers an area, it will not guarantee that every household there will be linked up to its boxes and receive high speed.

BT is taking the edge off a fundamentally successful Government project and it should be straightforward to sort it out. It involves 2,500 households that BT may not be able to link into, but it seems to have won the contract in every part of the country. My request to the Minister is that he has a serious look at what is going on before someone takes what is happening in north-west Lancashire—the matter went to the European Commission—to the new competition authority and asks what is going on with Government funding.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Vaizey]

We expect to spend a substantial proportion of it. We want cities and councils to work with local businesses and encourage them to take up the money. I am not one to oppose underspend in a Government programme, but the money is available if businesses want to use it. We will not spend money for the sake of it, however.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood raised B4RN and asked whether he could get a map of Lancashire. We strongly support rural community broadband schemes. At the outset of the programme, we put aside £10 million from the BDUK money and £10 million from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to create a £20 million fund to support community broadband schemes. There is a reason why it can be difficult to get such schemes off the ground, because we are dealing with state aid and a complicated process for accessing public money in compliance with Commission guidelines. I am confident that we are ready to help when problems arise, however.

My understanding is that Superfast Lancashire, which is responsible for delivering the programme, is in discussions with B4RN about the footprint where it wants to bring its community network. Superfast Lancashire is also in discussions with BT about how BT can accommodate B4RN’s commercial desires. Nobody is trying to stop B4RN doing what it is doing. My understanding—my hon. Friend may correct me if I am wrong—is that Dolphinholme, the village that he mentioned, was part of the contract with Lancashire when it was signed, and Lancashire county council decided where that broadband should go.

[Eric Ollerenshaw]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Vaizey]

Before my hon. Friend responds to that point, if that is what he wants to do, it is important to stress as a matter of principle that the broadband roll-out is dictated by the county council. Obviously, it is done in association with BT, because BT will make recommendations to the county council about where it is cheapest to go and where it will get more effective spend for its money, but the county council is in charge. It is also in charge of the map, and there is one on the Superfast Lancashire site that shows, broadly speaking, where broadband is due to be delivered.

[Eric Ollerenshaw]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. He is right to say “broadly speaking”, because the map does not tell me which villages are in or out. I said that there was some confusion right at the beginning, on both sides, about Dolphinholme’s position in the original agreements, but it has only 181 inhabitants. It is right in the hills between the villages that B4RN is covering.

Does the Minister agree that it seems remarkably odd that a company as large as BT should suddenly move into that village in the hills, when it is saying that other villages—Glasson Dock, for example—and other parts of the Lancaster urban area are still waiting for connectivity? Why should BT suddenly concentrate on that particular area? That is what questions are being asked about. I will repeat myself: I would prefer a much more detailed map.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (in the Chair)]

Order.

[Eric Ollerenshaw]

Sorry, Mr Sanders.

[Mr Vaizey]

I must say to my hon. Friend that my understanding was that Lancashire county council decided that Dolphinholme should get superfast broadband, so that is a matter for Lancashire county council. If I am wrong about that, I will apologise. I will double-check that with the county council and get back to my hon. Friend, but that is my understanding.

As far as the map is concerned, we are dealing with expectation management, if I can put it that way. I do not think that BT has made any attempt to stay under the radar to ambush local community providers. The local authority is in charge of the map, and there is nothing to stop it publishing a map, however detailed. It is also in charge of expectation management. When on the ground delivering broadband, circumstances can change. When the van and tools arrive in a particular area, it might turn out that it is going to be three times more expensive than expected. Another area might turn out to be twice as easy as expected.

If someone told a Mr Ollerenshaw, for example, that he was going to get superfast broadband in September 2014, but they then discovered either that that was not going to be economical and they were going to go somewhere else or that he was not going to get it until March 2015, they would have to manage his expectations. It is true that the Superfast Lancashire map gives some details, saying, “We are currently mapping this area and looking to come here”, but it does not give every single address, and it allows people to know when they are going to get superfast broadband only once the roll-out has been started in a particular area. I understand that people can type in their postcode or telephone number.

[Mr Vaizey]

It is not a question of handing over responsibility for the maps to local authorities; they are our partners in delivery and we respect their right to manage their local broadband roll-out plans. We provided the framework contract, which means that local authorities do not have to reinvent the wheel when negotiating a contract with a broadband provider. We provide the money, which they use in partnership with us, and they are the ones on the ground delivering broadband. Although I would like to take a lot of the credit for the success of the broadband programme, it is important that North Yorkshire, Lancashire and other county councils across the north of England also take credit for the excellent job that they have done on delivery.

The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland keeps saying that the north is forgotten, but I well remember my recent visit to Durham, where Digital Durham is showing that that is a fantastic local authority with a huge hunger to deliver superfast broadband to its residents.

[Eric Ollerenshaw]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way a second time. No one is questioning BT having won all these contracts, but I do not think that there is another historical example in local government of one company winning every single contract in every single local authority. Does that not suggest that we might need a new mechanism for comparing BT’s performance in one area with its performance in another? It is currently impossible to make such a comparison. The Minister says that the maps are the responsibility of the local authority, but the local authority has a contract with BT, as does the neighbouring local authority and the one after that. Who is going to manage BT’s performance? It seems to be becoming a sole provider.

[Mr Vaizey]

We are managing BT’s performance in the sense that BDUK audits what it is doing. It is important to stress that, for example, BT has already effectively delivered a Government-enabled programme in both Northern Ireland and Cornwall. I cannot swear to the exact figures because they are not in my briefing, but from memory BT was originally planning to reach about 80% of homes in Cornwall. However, because of the success of the programme—the costs on the ground were lower and take-up was higher than expected—my understanding is that BT will now probably reach about 90%, if not 95%, of homes in Cornwall under the same programme with the same money.

We audit everything that BT does, and local authorities do not pay the company until they get a receipt for work done. BT has already spent money, up-front, for which it has not yet been remunerated. The National Audit Office said that our plans were good value for taxpayers and reduced risk. I went on the record and did the media rounds with the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge), when her original report was published. I challenged every finding of the Public Accounts Committee and continue to do so. I did not appear in the media the most recent time around because the BBC did not invite me to challenge the right hon. Lady’s views and she was given a free ride to put across her point of view about our broadband programme. I will go on any television or radio programme with her, at any time, to debate the issue, because I am utterly confident that our programme is complete value for money.

This ill behoves the Labour party, given that we had to write off £50 million from the programme put in place in South Yorkshire under the previous Government. We had to write off that money because they built an infrastructure but did not get any customers. Under the current programme, we have passed almost 400,000 homes and will soon pass 40,000 homes every single week.

I do not resile from praising BT as a great British company doing a great job for Britain. I do not think that we praise our home-grown companies enough. By the way, it is interesting that the BT trade unions did not agree with the Public Accounts Committee report—that is worth noting. I have been told about BT engineers, up to their shoulders in water over the winter, still trying to get the job done as the floods were coming in. It is testament to the BT engineers delivering the programme on the ground that although the floods have had an impact—you will know about that from your local knowledge, Mr Sanders—they have not knocked the programme off course.

Everyone in the House agrees about the importance of broadband and superfast broadband. The figures speak for themselves: the programme is well under way, all the contracts are signed and the issue is now about delivery. There will always be concerns about value for money, about where broadband is going and about community programmes, which deserve their opportunity to deliver broadband. We continue to address all such concerns, but no one can deny that we are now delivering one of the best broadband programmes in the developed world. In the weeks when we have overtaken Germany in availability of broadband, we should, as I said at the beginning, be looking at a glass that is very much half full, rather than half empty.