Elected Mayors

Debate between Emma Lewell-Buck and Lord Wharton of Yarm

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (James Wharton)]

It is, of course, a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders) on securing this debate, on what is undoubtedly an important and topical matter of concern and interest to Members across the House, as we can see from the contributions that have been made today.

I also thank the shadow Minister for the best compliment she has yet paid me, in suggesting that I am not daft. I will ignore the sedentary chuntering from the Benches behind her, which was perhaps audible for the record. Indeed, not daft would be an understatement, were it true that I was able to choreograph the grand conspiracy that some of those who have contributed to this debate seem to believe is being perpetrated and were it true that I am such a Machiavellian political operator that I have taken the Tees Valley, the north-east, Greater Manchester and Greater Liverpool, to name but a few, and contrived to draw up devolution deals that will deliver Conservative mayors for those areas. I am delighted that some Members have such confidence in the political nous of those who lead my party that we may be able to achieve that, but I suggest that it is not the case.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

I do not want to upset the Minister, but we were talking about the Chancellor, not him.

[James Wharton]

I consider my bubble burst, but it was worth a try to take what compliments might be on offer when the opportunity was there. They have eluded my grasp on this occasion. Devolution is an important matter. It is transformational and of constitutional significance for how we run our country. It is important for driving future economic growth and recognises that it is those living in the communities affected by the decisions made by Government at whatever level who are best placed to understand how those decisions should be made and the things that can be done to grow the economies we represent in our different constituencies and different parts of the United Kingdom.

[James Wharton]

I will explain the difference between the sort of mayors we have had before and the approach the Government are taking to devolution at this time, as well as why that is the right approach. Looking at the history of mayors, we have all known and experienced civic mayors. That important role recognises the contribution that local councillors have often made in representing their local authority. We saw a transition to local authority mayors pioneered under the previous Labour Government. That saw powers taken from local authorities and focused in that executive person. Indeed, the example that the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) gave was of powers coming from a local authority into that executive person, who would then use them in theory for the good of that area, with their democratic accountability and mandate.

The sort of mayors we are talking about with devolution hold powers coming down from central Government that are currently held by Ministers and exercised by civil servants. We want to give those powers to people who are closer to the communities affected by their exercise. We want to transfer those powers down. Where there is a significant transfer of Executive control and decision-making with those powers, we also want to ensure sharp accountability delivered by an elected person with the mandate to ensure that the work that needs to be done can be delivered, but who will be accountable to the electors of the area over which they are the mayor.

That area is not chosen by central Government. The process of devolution for any area is a deal, and that is a two-way process, but we ask areas to come forward and tell us the geography on which they think a devolution deal should be delivered. Rather than Government dictating centrally what the geography might be, we allow local communities, represented by their elected local authority leaders, to look at the geography of the economy in which they operate and tell us what they think is the right geography.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

The Minister will recall that we spoke in a recent debate on devolution in East Anglia. The issue there was that the Government were not allowing those areas to decide the geography. How does he explain the point he just made in the light of that?

[James Wharton]

It is very clear. The Government do not have the power in statute to force any area to accept a devolution deal. It happens by agreement, working with local authority leadership. If an area is not happy with what is proposed, whether that is the geography, the powers or the mechanism of governance, the Government have no power to compel them to make that deal or to go down that route of devolution at that time. What is so welcome is that so many areas have done that and have recognised the opportunities to choose their own geographies.

Members have spoken about the overlapping and different-layered identities of our constituents. I represent Stockton South in Teesside, which is also within the larger Tees valley. My constituency is half in the old north riding of Yorkshire and half in County Durham for ceremonial purposes. People identify in different ways in my constituency. I of course understand that in any area or geography of any scale or size there will be differences of identity. The point of devolution is to identify the economic opportunities, and we have approached that from the bottom up. We have let those communities come forward, put their proposal on the table and persuade Government why it is the right thing. We do not accept everything that is brought forward. We work with them to test and understand why they want to make that deal, but that is the right approach, because it will give a geography that will last and stand the test of time.

We take the same approach with the powers that we are conferring with devolution. We allow areas to come to us with their bid, and we make a deal with them about the powers they want. There is not some centrally held list. There is not a restricted and narrowly defined number of things that an area can have. They can ask for whatever they want; it is a deal with Government. We have to agree, and we work with them on those areas in which we can find agreement, and hopefully we reach a deal in the interests of that geography and those communities, identifying the powers that will help drive forward the economy in that area.

Devolution (East Anglia)

Debate between Emma Lewell-Buck and Lord Wharton of Yarm

Wednesday 27th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[James Wharton]

I apologise to my hon. and learned Friend, but I must wrap up, given the time constraints. We can see that there is great interest in this process—great interest in devolution. Devolution is an important part of Government policy. We know that it must be done with local support. Deals are two-way processes. If we are to deliver deals that last, we need that local support and understanding. I look forward to continuing to work with colleagues on both sides of the House to ensure that this important policy objective, which can benefit the communities that we all represent, is not only delivered, but lasts the course.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

Will the Minister give way before he ends? He has time.

[James Wharton]

I do not have time.

Draft Tees Valley Combined Authority Order 2016

Debate between Emma Lewell-Buck and Lord Wharton of Yarm

Tuesday 15th March 2016 General Committees

[James Wharton]

It is not for me to tell the Tees Valley how to use the money that would become available to it, but £15 million a year is the starting agreement. There will then be an assessment of how the money is used, with an opportunity to expand the fund. It will be for the Tees Valley to look at how it best wants to use it—whether it is to borrow or invest, and what it wants to invest it in.

The fund is £450 million over the life of the commitment that the Government have made, and there is potential to increase it when we look at how it is used and how economic growth is generated with it. Ultimately, it will be for the local authority, the combined authority and the mayor, when they are elected, to determine how it is best used. It is welcome and it is additional funding coming to the Tees Valley that would not be coming but for the agreements that have been made and for the deal that is being done. The deal, important as it is, moves closer to completion through what we are here to discuss.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

Is the Minister seriously suggesting that £15 million is compensation for more than £200 million-worth of cuts? He cannot be for real.

[James Wharton]

As I have tried to explain, the Minister is trying to say that what is happening in local government spending with the need to bring down the deficit that the Labour Government left the country with—the economic disaster that we inherited in 2010—

draft Greater Manchester Combined Authority (Election of Mayor with police and crime commissioner functions) order 2016

Debate between Emma Lewell-Buck and Lord Wharton of Yarm

Thursday 3rd March 2016 General Committees

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

I hear what the Minister is saying about discussions with local authority leaders, but does he understand that there is a lot of unrest out there? A lot of people are saying that they simply do not know what is happening. The message is not filtering through; it is not being communicated to the very communities that rely on these services, as borne out by a recent Select Committee report and many other reports. What will the Government do about that?

[James Wharton]

I understand the shadow Minister’s concern about the extent to which the changes that are taking place are broadly understood by the people in those communities that we hope will benefit. The truth is that, in line with the basic principles of devolution, we have allowed local areas and local authority leaders to consult as they see appropriate before approving devolution deals.

There has been extensive coverage in local media, with debates on both sides of these arguments. There have been many debates in this place, but I recognise that there is—indeed, there always is in democracy—more to be done to continue engaging, to continue explaining and to continue showing why what we are doing is important and why we believe that it will bring benefits.

In part, we are talking about the election of a Greater Manchester metro Mayor in May 2017, and, as we head towards the election, the debate will become more acutely obvious to residents living in Greater Manchester. The candidates, from whatever party and of whatever view, will want to set out their stalls for that election and explain the powers that the Mayor will have and what they want to do with those powers for the communities that they want to represent. That will be true not only in Greater Manchester but more broadly across those areas that have agreed such deals and that will have Mayors in the first tranche of devolution.

I always want to do more to spread the good word of the great works that the Government are doing. I would welcome the shadow Minister’s assistance, wherever possible, in doing that, but I have no doubt that this debate will not only continue but become louder, more obvious and more specific as we head towards the mayoral elections. It is for those reasons that I commend the draft order; I am pleased that the shadow Minister said she does not intend to divide the Committee.

Today marks a significant milestone along the path of delivering the agenda that we are pursuing. It will make a real difference to communities across the UK, particularly in the north of England, where we want to build and deliver on the northern powerhouse and unlock the huge economic potential that we know exists in the economies of the north, in the communities of the north and, most fundamentally, thanks to the people who live in the north of this great country.

Question put and agreed to.