Flood Preparedness: Norfolk

Debate between Emma Hardy and Jess Brown-Fuller

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Emma Hardy)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher.

I thank everybody who has taken part in the debate and in particular the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Steff Aquarone) for securing it in the first place. We are in danger of an outbreak of unity, which is always quite dangerous in Parliament, but I must say that every contribution has shown the importance of tackling flooding and why it means so much to each and every one of us.

A number of Members mentioned mental health. To be honest, one of the reasons I was so attracted to this brief to begin with is that I represent an area that suffered tragically from floods in 2007. The Opposition spokesperson, the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Dr Hudson), is quite right to point out that, long after the flood water has receded and the blue lights have left, the mental health impacts continue. I should also welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new post. I have listened to his contributions to debates on environmental, farming and rural affairs issues, and I recognise his expertise, especially on veterinary issues, so it is a genuine pleasure to see him on the Front Bench.

A few Members mentioned the tragic situation that we have seen in Spain, which is a sobering reminder of how devastating flooding can be. I also thank the Environment Agency and everybody involved in addressing flooding.

I have been scribbling frantically, so I hope that I will cover as many points as possible and do that dangerous thing of actually answering some of the questions that have been asked. To begin with, am I going to make maintenance sexy? Well, I will do my best to make it sexy, and one thing we should look at is the flooding formula. We published a written ministerial statement just last week about how we allocate money for flooding, one aspect of which is looking at maintenance. Previously, the focus has been on the number of new properties protected, such that maintenance has, I think, been neglected. I urge hon. Members to look at that statement if they have not already seen it.

When we talk about the budget, I am very keen to talk about building new defences and maintaining existing defences. As for natural flood management, I love it. One way to get on my good side is to start talking about SUDS—sustainable drainage systems—or natural flood management, so I am feeling very happy now. The hon. Member for Waveney Valley (Adrian Ramsay) is quite right about how they deliver in terms of affordability, nature and flood protection. I am a huge fan.

The Environment Agency will shortly publish an update to “Working with Natural Processes—Evidence Directory”, which will provide access to information that explains the benefits of natural flood management. The Environment Agency is also working to develop a natural flood management benefits tool that aims to provide a nationally consistent way of assessing both flood risk and the wider benefits of NFM projects. In the past, one of the difficulties in getting these flood projects off the ground has been in calculating the benefit of NFM. If we can agree a consistent approach to how NFM will work, hopefully we can encourage more people to get involved with it. The Environment Agency plans to publish the high-level method and assumptions on which the tool is based soon, so watch this space.

Insurance has also been mentioned. I urge the hon. Member for North Norfolk to look at Build Back Better, because people who frequently have to claim on their insurance should be able to receive an extra £10,000 from their insurer through Build Back Better. If someone’s insurer is not offering that, because they are in an area that is frequently flooded, their insurance is probably underwritten by Flood Re, and therefore they should be entitled to that.

[Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)]

Homes built since 2009 are excluded from the Flood Re insurance scheme, leaving many people without affordable insurance or indeed any insurance at all. When the Deputy Prime Minister talks about unlocking house building, the Minister will understand why my constituents are concerned that that means they will see more building on flood plains. Does the Minister agree that that would be farcical?

[Emma Hardy]

Well, no, because the Government are currently updating a lot of the planning rules for building homes. SUDS, which I mentioned earlier, will ensure that when building new homes, there is not increased flood risk either for the new homes being built or for existing homes in the area. That is why SUDS are so crucial.

Build Back Better should not just be available for people who have Flood Re; rather, it should be available for all insurers or people who are getting insurance. I want to make this mainstream. One of our concerns is that not many people know that they are able to claim this money or how to claim it. There are difficulties around some of the products, but the example that the hon. Member for North Norfolk shared—about why we would put plugs back in a low place when the property will get flooded again—is exactly where the Build Back Better money could be used: to put the plugs into a different place. I am more than happy to give more details on that.

We have mentioned the importance of mapping. I have good news. [Interruption.] Again, Sir Christopher, there is an outbreak of unity. The good news is that fairly soon we will launch something called NaFRA2, which is basically maps for the whole of England that look at the flood risk for all different types of flooding, including, for the first time, surface water flooding—previously, it has just been river and tidal. Importantly, it will look at future flood risk—so not only the risk of flooding right now, but how the flood risk will change according to climate change. That is incredibly important, so watch this space.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft (Jess Asato). She has met with me a few times, championing the needs of her constituents, and I know how welcome they will find her consistent lobbying. I hope that she will look at the flooding formula review and how it can impact areas such as Lowestoft or areas that have coastal erosion, and feed back to me on that.

I agree with the hon. Member for Mid Norfolk (George Freeman) that if there was ever an issue that unites us, it is this—how good to hear that. I am quite interested in having a look at his Bill, and definitely at catchments as well. The independent review will have a look at catchments. It will look more at water quality but, of course, looking at a catchment solution helps with flooding. I will come back to internal drainage boards. I have been promised a culvert named after me if I do something good on this—

Chalk Streams: Sewage Discharge

Debate between Emma Hardy and Jess Brown-Fuller

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Emma Hardy]

I will move on to talk a little bit about run-off and other issues involved. I join the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted in praising her local community groups and organisations. One of the pleasures I have had since taking on this brief is meeting many committed environmentalists, environmental non-governmental organisations and people who care so much about the area. I liked the tale of people going picnicking by the edge of her chalk stream; I am tempted now to go and visit it when I am next on holiday. However, she is also right to point out that England’s chalk streams face pressure on their water quality, with pollution coming from different point sources—especially from sewage treatment works, as she discovered on that Friday evening—and diffuse sources such as phosphorus and road run-off mean that chalk streams suffer from higher levels of nutrients, sediment and toxic chemicals such as pesticides.

I will go on to explain some of the actions that the Government are taking with regard to addressing those concerns. However, as has been mentioned by the hon. Member for Newbury (Mr Dillon), it is not water quality alone that affects the chalk streams flowing in the constituency of the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted, as they face pressures affecting the quantity and physical habitat quality too. On the quantity, we have seen excessive removal of water from its original source, which can lower the natural river flow of these streams.

[Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)]

In the Chichester constituency, we have two crucial chalk streams: the River Ems and the River Lavant. Portsmouth Water has been abstracting from the River Ems since the 1960s, which has moved the flow two kilometres downstream at the point of flow. Does the Minister agree that water companies that rely on our chalk streams to supplement their water supply need to come up with some sustainable water solutions to ensure our water supply for the future? [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Emma Hardy]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I was addressing the specific chalk stream raised by the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted. However, I completely agree with the wider point about having an overall strategy to deal with the problems faced by water.

There is also the Spring Clean for Colne project, covering the River Ver and River Bulbourne. This partnership project is identifying, logging and mapping the outfalls, channels and ditches that could be a source of pollution in the Colne catchment. By first identifying the sources of pollution, we can then work on providing the solutions.

On a broader scale, which I think is the question that the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Sarah Green) wanted me to consider, the Government are continuing to take action to ensure the recovery and preservation of chalk streams. Earlier this year, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs launched its species survival fund, which aims to bolster conservation efforts across the country. Through this fund, 20 conservation projects will collectively receive a share of £25 million, with the goal of restoring 3,300 hectares of vital habitat for wildlife.

Notably, two of these projects will specifically benefit our chalk streams. These are the partnerships for nature in the north Wessex downs area of outstanding national beauty, which will restore over three kilometres of chalk stream habitat, and the riparian habitat improvements in Hertfordshire’s chalk rivers from the Herts and Middlesex Wildlife Trust, which will restore chalk river habitats across 11.15 kilometres of the River Lea catchment. We are also contributing £1 million to chalk river initiatives in 2024-25, collaborating with partners on 30 projects aimed at safeguarding these rare and irreplaceable habitats. That effort is crucial to our commitment to protect these habitats as part of the water resources chalk partnership fund.

Taken together, those points demonstrate that this Government are continuing to view chalk stream recovery as a key, important issue. Although money has previously been invested in their conservation, I am aware—very aware—that more work needs to be done and that recovery is not a quick fix.

[Jess Brown-Fuller]

Southern Water, working with Portsmouth Water, is making plans to reduce chalk stream abstraction by introducing effluent recycling at the Havant Thicket reservoir. Does the Minister think that this scheme—turning effluent into drinking water—is a good idea?

[Emma Hardy]

I think, as with all schemes, it needs to be looked at and considered carefully. Nothing will be signed off if it presents any danger to the general public. As she knows, we have one of the highest levels of drinking water quality in the world. That is not changing under this watch. There is no way that we would allow drinking water that was not completely safe for everyone to use.