Supporting Small Business

Emma Hardy Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Reeves]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and I know that he is a staunch supporter of businesses in Headingley, Otley and across his Leeds North West constituency. The Government should not break their promises to voters—that should be a given—and he is right to mention the tourism sector, which is so important to so many of our constituencies, whether we represent cities, towns or villages. That is why the decisions of the Labour Government in Wales to support the retail and hospitality sector during this difficult time were so welcomed by businesses in Wales.

[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

One of the ways that the difference is being felt by people living here in England is through increased levels of debt, which is why I find it so remarkable that the Money and Pensions Service is looking to reduce the funding for face-to-face debt consultations at a time when, because of the lack of support in the economy, people find themselves going further and further into debt. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Money and Pensions Service should look at that again?

[Rachel Reeves]

My hon. Friend is right to make that point. I have had constituents raise concerns about cuts to money advice, for example, through StepChange, the charity based in Leeds. This is linked to the fact that a lot of the funding comes from banks and, due to the formulas set by Government, the funding that goes into debt advice charities is falling at a time when inflation is going up and there is a risk that interest rates might go up, and all the rest of it. She is right, and I hope that Ministers have heard those concerns, which I expect will be echoed by Members across the House.

In November 2019, just weeks before the general election, the Prime Minister told the CBI conference that

“to make sure that the businesses of this country can continue to flourish I am announcing today a package of measures cutting business rates further…particularly for SMEs to help…stimulate the high street.”

Labour welcomed the Government’s review of business rates, which was formally launched 15 months ago, four months into the pandemic. They were right to make the decision to start the review. Businesses, even during those difficult times, found the time to make submissions, and they did so in good faith. The Government promised

“final conclusions in Spring 2021”,

so they are already overdue, and now there is news that the review may be pushed even further into the long grass.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lee Rowley]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, and I acknowledge the challenge. There is always a balance to be struck. This level of detail is perhaps slightly away from the motion, but I would be happy to discuss it separately.

We should not forget all the support that we have provided over such a sustained period, and we should not strip this debate of that context. Now our task is to make sure that businesses, large and small, have the opportunity, the talent and the ability to unleash their full potential, which is where I am afraid I will have to diverge again from the Opposition and their remarks today.

The extraordinary circumstances of the pandemic required an extraordinary response from the Government, and we delivered that extraordinary response, but it did not come without cost. Whether we like it or not, providing such a comprehensive and decisive economic response has dramatically increased public borrowing. Government debt has exceeded the size of the UK economy for the first time in more than 50 years. It was an appropriate and proportionate strategy, when we were faced with a real and immediate crisis, to support businesses and allow them to ready themselves for when the recovery came, but over the medium term it is clearly not sustainable to continue borrowing at these levels.

[Emma Hardy]

rose—

[Lee Rowley]

I hope the hon. Lady will be able to answer that point.

[Emma Hardy]

Actually, I was hoping to put to the Minister the same question that I put to my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) on the issue of debt and debt advice.

The Money and Pensions Service is changing the system that it operates by moving towards having call centres rather than having as many face-to-face appointments for people who are struggling with debt. This has been an incredibly difficult year and people are finding themselves in higher levels of debt, so will the Minister comment on the support that is available to help people who are struggling right now? Will he be speaking to the Money and Pensions Service about its decision to move towards remote consultations rather than face-to-face consultations?

[Lee Rowley]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her contribution, and I know she has a clear interest in this. I fear it is going slightly away from the discussion we are having, but I am happy to have discussions with her separately. I know that my colleagues will continually communicate with and consult people in this important policy area.

As I was saying, whether we like it or not there has been a large change in public borrowing. When we were faced with the crisis, we took action. But as the pandemic starts to subside, it is vital that we make moves to return to a position of strong and sustainable finances. Ultimately—this is what the Labour party never wants to acknowledge, and it can state that it is unapologetically pro-business as much as it wishes—there can be no strength for businesses in a country where a Government have lost control of the public finances. The shadow Chancellor invited us to look at her speech at last week’s Labour party conference, which I did; she made much of the “everyday economy”. Businesses in the everyday economy will never be able to thrive long term on policies that have no regard to the macroeconomic situation or no clear way of being funded. Neither before nor in today’s debate has the Labour party provided any meaningful explanation of how it will pay for abolishing business rates.

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[Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure, as always, to follow the thoughtful contribution by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake).

I start by congratulating HullBID on winning its recent ballot. It had an 87% turnout from businesses in the city centre, and it won the vote by 81%. I am sure that every Member of this House would be delighted to have those percentages. I congratulate Kathryn Shillito, the executive director of HullBID, on her amazing work throughout the pandemic, offering advice, grants and financial support for businesses right in the city centre.

That support and advice has been needed more than ever, because we see from the data that more than 197 businesses in Hull West and Hessle are at risk, despite the excellent work that is going on in the city. Our independent retail scene is thriving. As some of the bigger names are moving out, we are home-growing our own talent and our own businesses in our own city. Trinity market is full of exciting independent shops, as is Hepworth arcade, and we were shortlisted for the Great British High Street awards just last year—I am sure they will look on us favourably again next year.

Although there has been some disagreement during the debate, there has been so much consensus, and there seems to be a consensus that the business rates system that we have at the moment is simply not fit for purpose. In my city of Hull, the high street has moved from one location to another, but the rating system for business rates has not moved with it. One part of the city centre used to be the thriving area where everyone shopped. It is now completely different, yet businesses there still pay higher business rates, because those rates are set on an old-fashioned and outdated model. That must change.

I want to mention Ye Olde White Harte pub in Hull, which I highly recommend to everyone. It has been there since 1550, and it is famous for its “plotting room”, where the people of Hull apparently got together to decide that they would turn away Charles I when he came to try to enter the city, thus starting the English civil war. I have no reason to start a civil war right here, right now, but I do want to point out the unfairness of the business rates and taxation system that that pub is under. When I visited, its landlord told me that its rates are based on “fair maintainable trade”, which has been criticised for lacking transparency, being open to manipulation and being biased in favour of pub companies and against landlords. I wrote to the Minister about this issue, raising the case of the White Harte, and I hope that he will review my letter again.

However, if we waited for the Government to fix the problems in Hull, we would be waiting an awfully long time. As I proved with my story about Ye Olde White Harte, we have nothing in my city if not an independent and fighting spirit, so we are coming to our own solutions and solving our own problems. I have been working closely with businesses in Hull to champion the city as the capital of home working and remote working, so it was very disappointing to read on the front page of one newspaper that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor want everyone to go back to the offices where they worked before. That seems to me to be re-establishing the inequality that existed previously. Why?

Why do people have to go back to the cities and offices in which they worked before? Why not look elsewhere, at other parts of our beautiful country? Look at the city of Hull, where we have the fastest broadband and affordable standards of living. We are right by the ferry—if someone wants to pop off to Holland, they can do so for £40 return on P&O—and we can get a direct train down to London in only two and a half hours on Hull Trains’ bespoke open railway service. We have everything we need to offer remote workers. We have a much higher standard of living than they would have if they were living in a tiny little flat and commuting. No offence to my colleagues from London, but the prices in London are extraordinary. Living in a small flat in London and getting stuck on the underground, or living in the city of Hull, in a beautiful, much bigger house, with the Yorkshire countryside and the beautiful east coast on the doorstep—which would we rather?

Why are the Government insisting on sending everyone back to the office as they were before? No—send everyone instead to cities such as Hull, where they would be welcomed with open arms. They can give our high streets a boost by coming and living in our city centre, they can spend their money in our city, and they can truly achieve a bit more equality than the Government are offering. So I hope we are not going to return to business as normal. The first step in not returning to business as normal is to look at reforming the business rate system. It is outdated, it does not work and it is unfair to businesses in my constituency.

I hope that while we look at changing things for the better, we also change our attitude towards remote working, because it really can offer the skills revolution and the opportunities we need for cities like mine. For too long in cities such as Hull, if people wanted a good job, they had to leave. Remote working changes all that. People can have the job of their dreams in the city where they grew up, sitting behind a laptop.

[David Johnston]

I completely agree with the hon. Lady that we need jobs in other parts of the country, but does she agree with me that the big risk of remote working is that younger workers will not develop the skills, knowledge and connections that they do when they are in the workplace? They, at least, need to be able to go into the office to develop them.

[Emma Hardy]

I am so pleased the hon. Gentleman raises that point, because it brings me on to my second point. He is absolutely right and we are solving that problem here in the fine city of Hull by working with businesses to set up remote working hubs. We are looking at hotdesking situations and bringing together people who wish to have remote jobs, but who do not wish to be isolated forever in their bedrooms away from everybody else and not have those opportunities to network. We are looking at changing part of Princes Quay shopping centre into an area where we can have remote working desks based around particular industries, so that people can network, get to know each other and mix while still working remotely for different companies around the country or even around the world. This is happening right now. We have turned the old HSBC bank on Whitefriargate, owned by businessman Gerard Toplass, into the most stunning place to work. We will be setting up hotdesking opportunities right there in that old bank, utilising the assets we have in our high streets into new resources—resources for hotdesking and remote working, and bringing more residential living into the city, too.

To do all that, however—I could enthuse about this idea for hours, but I will stop now, Madam Deputy Speaker—we need to start with a fundamental reform of business rates. To give Hull a chance to help itself, we need fair taxation for everybody.