Valedictory Debate

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Thursday 26th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I made my maiden speech on 19 May 1992. By all accounts, it was a brilliant speech, because nobody interrupted me and within hours it was in a bound volume. I am very proud of that.

In ’92, of course, devolution was very much a minority sport. Nowadays it is central to virtually everything we do, as every Bill has on it its territorial reach. I mentioned many times in those early days that I was elected to Parliament in order to leave it, by which I meant in order to secure a Parliament for Wales.

In the 1992 Parliament, I well remember having to stay up all night during the Maastricht debates because I was the youngest of our Members and I was charged with waking up my friends and getting them in for the critical vote, which very often was between 4.30 am and 5.30 am. This went on for months, and often on two or three nights per week. It was at this time that I began to reflect on the enormity of what I had done in leaving a good legal practice and comfortable, rewarding job for this utter chaos, with its points of order, opera hats, “I spy strangers”, and general mayhem. Thankfully, of course, Maastricht came to an end, and something approaching normality descended in its place.

Looking back, I see that my Plaid Cymru colleagues, past and present, have a good record. For the past 35 years, we have pointed out, for example, the iniquity of the Barnett formula, with Wales losing out on billions of pounds over the years, and successive Governments denying it and making excuses. Post the Holtham report and the report from the other place, it is now received wisdom, and the fight goes on.

It so happens that I was the first person in the UK Parliament to argue for a Children’s Commissioner for Wales, and that came in 1993, swiftly followed by our friends in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Some eight years ago, I began a campaign on behalf of ex-servicemen who find themselves on the wrong side of the law after I discovered that upwards of 8,000 were in prison. This became a manifesto issue for every party at the last election.

During the 2010-11 period, I was privileged to chair a working group that brought in laws against stalking. Those laws have now saved lives, and there are currently over 800 cases before the courts. Last month, the Government accepted a ten-minute rule Bill of mine that brought coercive behaviour within the legal framework of domestic violence law.

I well remember opening a debate on the need for Parliament to see the full version of the Attorney-General’s opinion on the legality of the war in Iraq. The right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) spoke for the other side and did everything he could to trip me up—which was his job, of course, at the time. I opened the debate and my friend Alex Salmond closed for us. From a joint group of nine, we secured a vote of over 280, which I think was quite a substantial thing to do.

I suppose that what I am saying is that someone from a small parliamentary party can actually make a real difference—free of the dead hand of the Whips and free of any ministerial ambitions.

I thank my family for their forbearance and sacrifices. We all know what I mean by saying that: it can be a sacrifice for our families. I am very grateful to you, Mr Speaker, and your deputies for your fair-minded approach to all of us, whichever party we belong to. I thank all Speakers under whom I have had the privilege to serve. I also thank the Library and research staff, my parliamentary staff and constituency staff, and, last but not least, the security staff, police and Doorkeepers who enable us to do our work in the fashion that we do.

In an awards ceremony speech in Cardiff city hall four months ago, I said that I believe that 99% of Members of Parliament are good, honest people who want to make a real difference, and I hold very firmly to that view. I thank the electorate of Meirionnydd, Nant Conwy and Dwyfor for their steadfast support and loyalty over these last 23 years, and I wish my successor well in her endeavours.

If I could wind back the clock, I would do it all again—more than that I cannot say. For one who came to Parliament in order to leave it, I shall miss it and the many friends I have made across the political spectrum.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman very warmly for that speech.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Tuesday 6th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Between November 2012 and June 2014, 1,447 CPS lawyers completed the cyber-crime cyber-stalking course, which was developed by the CPS for all prosecutors. However, in a written answer from the Solicitor-General in October 2014, I was advised that a lower figure now applied. Will he please give us an update on the progress of how many CPS lawyers are undertaking this very important training?

[Mr Speaker]

May I in a very gentle way say that lawyers’ questions and answers tend to be learned and lucid, but also rather long? Perhaps the Solicitor-General can disprove the trend.

Prison Officers (Work-related Stress)

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I gather that the right hon. Gentleman has the agreement of the Minister.

[Mr Llwyd]

Perhaps I could ask the Minister whether I have his agreement.

[Mr Speaker]

It is the normal convention. The Minister is a very agreeable and agreeing sort of fellow, and so is the right hon. Gentleman. I therefore think that we can probably proceed in a harmonious manner, subject only to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) being content. I anticipate that he will agree, because he is a caring, sharing Member.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 25th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Jake Berry—not here.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

After many months of vehement anti-Iranian rhetoric from the Government and now the sudden change of heart, does the Prime Minister believe that the maxim “My enemy’s enemy is my friend” trumps all else?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Elfyn Llwyd.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

No. 5, Mr. Speaker, and I do not have an iPhone. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Because of chuntering from the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) from a sedentary position, the intervention was of no value—[Interruption.] Order. [Interruption.] Order. Be quiet. Silly man. I call Mr Llwyd.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

5. When he last met representatives of farming unions in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

May I ask about zero-hours contracts? Does the Secretary of State appreciate that they are exploitative, and no more so than in the care sector, which the Resolution Foundation has said is

“where their use is most entrenched and where their impact on vulnerable workers and care recipients is most worrying”?

Does he not agree that to hear Labour carping about that matter here and voting against an amendment to delete it in Wales is a bit unfortunate? Does it appear at all on his radar, or is he above all this?

[Mr Speaker]

I am listening with rapt attention to the observations of the right hon. Gentleman, but I am struggling to ascertain the connection between the important matter he has just raised and the subject matter of the question, which is about the Commission on Devolution in Wales.

[Mr Llwyd]

The zero-hours contract issue could have been devolved to Wales to deal with.

[Mr Speaker]

That is a nice try, and I am in a generous mood.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Tuesday 4th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Bob Blackman. Not here. Oh dear.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Justice Secretary’s plan A of dismantling the independent legal Bar seems to be going very well. Will he tell us about his plan B and the public defender service?

Points of Order

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Thursday 27th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

My response to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order, of which I did not have advance notice—I make no complaint about that; I simply point out that I did not have such notice—is twofold. First, I am a Privy Counsellor, but as the hon. Gentleman well knows, I do not call meetings of the Privy Council, which take place perhaps from time to time. Secondly, I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point—I would be exceptionally unwise if I did not—and if he is minded to pursue the matter, he will have multiple opportunities. I have a sense that the hon. Gentleman understands at least as well as I do that in campaigning quantity, persistence and, above all, repetition are at least as important as the quality of the arguments themselves.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have ruled that there will be a tight limit on speeches today, because the debate is obviously oversubscribed. Do you not share my concern that the Secretary of State for Justice has not even bothered to turn up for the debate?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I had not noticed the absence of the Secretary of State. It would undoubtedly enrich the House were he to be present, and there will be some sadness and disappointment if he is not present, but precisely which Ministers are fielded by the Government is, of course, a matter for the Government.

Bill Presented

Water Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Secretary Owen Paterson, supported by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Vince Cable, Secretary David Jones and Richard Benyon, presented a Bill to make provision about the water industry; about compensation for modification of licences to abstract water; about main river maps; about records of waterworks; for the regulation of the water environment; about the provision of flood insurance for household premises; about internal drainage boards; about Regional Flood and Coastal Committees; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Monday 1 July, and to be printed (Bill 82) with explanatory notes (Bill 82-EN).

Local Authority Devolution and Powers

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

We come now to the main business, Opposition day, 18th allotted day, which is a debate in the name of the Scottish National party on housing benefit and the under-occupancy penalty. To move the motion—

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

It is a joint motion.

[Mr Speaker]

I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman. The motion is in the name of the Scottish National party, but it is also in the name of Plaid Cymru—[Interruption]—and of the Green party. It is indeed truly a joint motion: not a complete novelty, although relatively unusual, and very welcome. I stand corrected. To move the motion, I call Mr Angus Robertson. [Interruption.] No? Well, that is what I was briefed; I am following what I have been told. The hon. Gentleman is displaying a self-effacing modesty with which he is not always associated, but he is playing second fiddle today. I call Dr Eilidh Whiteford.

Housing Benefit (Under-occupancy Penalty)

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it respectful to this House for the Secretary of State to be playing with his telephone rather than listening, even for a second, to what is being said?

[Mr Speaker]

These are matters of judgment for right hon. and hon. Members. Certainly, discretion in the use of such devices is to be encouraged, but I can say only that I had not noticed the matter. Therefore, so far as I was concerned, there was nothing outré about the behaviour of the Secretary of State. However, I note the point. Probably, the Secretary of State has noted it too, and we will leave it there.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Llwyd]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise. The right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) is taking a second supplementary on his own question. I had not realised he was going to do that, but he is welcome.

[Mr Llwyd]

What efforts will now be made—the industry is concerned about this—to ensure that Wales is marketed effectively abroad by VisitBritain? For many years now we have suffered because we have been undersold—knowingly or otherwise—by VisitBritain.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am now looking for stunning succinctness. I call Mr Elfyn Llwyd.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I shall try to stun you, Mr Speaker.

The Secretary of State knows that the relationship between probation officer and offender is crucial to the rehabilitation process. How will he assure the House that opening up to the private sector will not undermine that crucial relationship?

Points of Order

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You might have seen in the past few weeks exchanges between the Prime Minister and me regarding the need for a stalking law. I chaired a parliamentary inquiry in which all parties were represented and whose membership was drawn from both Houses of Parliament. The report, which is evidence-based and has some firm conclusions, was available in the Vote Office until last week, when the authorities said the copies should be taken down and no longer offered to Members of Parliament. How can I ensure the widest possible readership of this very important document? I want it to be read from Tydweiliog to Twickenham—I think it is vital that everyone reads it. Where can I display it for that purpose?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for notice of it. As I know he, as an experienced Member, will readily understand, the reports of all-party parliamentary groups are not official papers of the House. The Vote Office stocks only official papers and, very occasionally, other documents directly relevant to a debate on the Order Paper.

The right hon. Gentleman says that he wishes to make his report more widely known. May I politely suggest that he has just very effectively started to achieve his objective? If he wishes to e-mail the said document to all Members, I suspect that there will be an eager audience, and for my part I will be at or close to the head of the queue.

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Monday 31st October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Does the right hon. Gentleman wish to press his amendment?

[Mr Llwyd]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The Speaker put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time (Standing Order No. 83E).

Amendment made: 11, page 99, line 36, at end insert—

‘“personal representative”, in relation to an individual who has died, means—

(a) a person responsible for administering the individual’s estate under the law of England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, or

(b) a person who, under the law of another country or territory, has functions equivalent to those of administering the individual’s estate;’.—(Mr Djanogly.)

Amendment proposed: 92, page 103, line 35, leave out ‘physical or mental abuse’ and insert ‘any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (whether physical, mental, financial or emotional)’.—(Mr Llwyd.)

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Tuesday 11th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I appreciate the comprehensiveness of the replies, but greater economy would facilitate progress.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Does the Minister appreciate that those who practise welfare law have traditionally not been highly paid, and does he realise that swathes of firms are likely to disappear? Who will stand in that breach, because those who are most in need are the least likely to be helped in those circumstances?

Points of Order

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Tuesday 14th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Members for Moray (Angus Robertson) and for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) and the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) have all raised extremely important points of order on the back of the speech in support of the application for a Standing Order No. 24 Adjournment debate.

First, I am conscious of press commentary, not least because of what right hon. and hon. Members have said, but I think it fair to point out that there is sometimes a difference between press commentary and speculation on the one hand, and a firm Government decision on the other. Secondly, I note the presence of two responsible Ministers in the Chamber, which I think is appreciated by the House. I noted that when the point was made about statements needing to be made to the House, the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) was nodding vigorously his assent to that proposition.

The last point that I would make, specifically responding to the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife, is that he is right. If a decision has been made, it should be reported timeously to the House so that the responsible Minister is subject to scrutiny. I hope the House will understand if I say today that I am not in a position to issue a verdict, but the point has been made forcefully. I hope it will have been heard on the Treasury Bench and that all proper procedures will be followed in this matter. I hope they will be, and I am quite sure, in light of the experience and perspicacity of the Members who raised their concerns, that if there were anything amiss or awry, those Members and others would bring it to my attention and that of the House before very long.

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder if you can assist me. The court closure announcement that we heard just now was, in the case of Welsh courts, predicated on back maintenance figures which proved to be 100% inflated. Even on the second attempt to correct them, they were completely inaccurate. Were the announcement made outside the Chamber, I would say that it was justiciable. What can I do about this? I feel badly let down by the process.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is seeking to continue the debate. I understand his frustration. My advice to him is that he should look for an opportunity to air his concerns in the Chamber. As he is aware, there is an innovative version of the Christmas Adjournment debate taking place under the auspices of the Backbench Business Committee next week. He might want to view that as an opportunity. There are opportunities in Westminster Hall. There will be further opportunities at Question Time. In the meantime, the hon. Gentleman has reminded his constituents of the importance that he attaches to the matter.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is far too much noise in the Chamber. It is very discourteous to Members and, indeed, to Ministers.

[Mr Llwyd]

The assurances that the right hon. Lady gives that she will fight her corner for Wales are becoming rather empty—a bit like the situation with tuition fees and the Lib Dems.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Elfyn Llwyd and John Bercow

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I and the Secretary of State met the Under-Secretary in September. We have another meeting arranged for 10 November. We discussed all the courts in Wales that I am sure the hon. Gentleman is concerned about.

[Mr Speaker]

I call David Davies.

[Mr Llwyd]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise. The hon. Gentleman has the right to come back.

[Mr Llwyd]

May I make the point that since the hon. Gentleman and his colleague have been in post, we have lost the investment in St Athan, we have lost the investment in the south Wales railway line, we have lost jobs in Newport and we have lost the north Wales prison? What on earth are they doing for Wales?