Countess of Chester Hospital Inquiry

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 4th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the content of his response and the manner in which he delivered it. I think it underscores the unity of this House in our condemnation of these crimes, and our focus on putting the families at the centre of getting answers to the questions that arise from this case. I join him in paying tribute to those consultants who spoke up to trigger the police investigation and to prevent further harm to babies. I note the further work that the police are doing in this case, and also pay tribute to the police team, which I had the privilege of meeting. They have worked incredibly hard in very difficult circumstances in the course of this investigation.

As the hon. Gentleman said, the families are absolutely central to the approach that we are taking. That is why I felt that it was very important to discuss with them the relative merits of different types of inquiry, but their response was very clear in terms of their preference for a statutory inquiry. I have certainly surfaced to Lady Justice Thirlwall some of the comments from the families in terms of the potential to phase it. Of course, those will be issues for the judge to determine.

On the hon. Gentleman’s concerns around the revolving door, clearly a number of measures have already been taken, but I share his desire to ensure that there is accountability for decisions. As Members will know, I have been vocal about that in previous roles, and it is central to many of the families’ questions on wider regulation within the NHS.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the importance of good management. I am extremely interested in how, through this review and the steps we can take ahead of it, we give further support to managers within the NHS and to non-exec directors. The Government accepted in full the seven recommendations of the Messenger review. The Kark review was largely accepted. There was the issue of recommendation 5, which is why it is right that we look again at that in the light of the further evidence.

It is clear that a significant amount of work has already gone in. A number of figures, including Aidan Fowler and Henrietta Hughes, have focused on safeguarding patient safety, but in the wake of this case we need to look again at where we can go further, which the statutory inquiry will do with the full weight of the law. I am keen, however, that we also consider what further, quicker measures can be taken. Indeed, I have been in regular contact with NHS England to take that work forward.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee.

[Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)]

I place on record my sympathy to the families, who have conducted themselves with the utmost dignity throughout this process and who remain in my thoughts and prayers as well. I welcome the judge-led statutory inquiry that my right hon. Friend has announced. It is the right thing to do, as are the phases of the inquiry, which prevent stuff from taking too long to move fast. As that work moves forward, and the debate rightly continues to touch on how we regulate managers working in the NHS, and remove them, I ask that Ministers remain alert to any “us and them” thinking between managers and clinicians. Surely any successful hospital trust is one team working together, so that defensive medicine is all but impossible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Barclay]

Just to reassure the right hon. Gentleman, it is not that we are waiting. Having discussed it with NHS England, not least in last week’s meeting looking at the Kark recommendations that were accepted and why recommendation 5 was not accepted, the view at the time was that the accepted recommendations were sufficient in addressing the concern about the revolving door. It is right that we test that, but it is also right that we get the balance right.

The right hon. Gentleman mentions concerns that certain trusts may be seen as more difficult to manage. We do not want to create an environment where people are unwilling to go to those more difficult trusts because they fear the risk that they carry. It is important that we get the right support for managers, particularly around some of the more difficult trusts to manage, alongside having the accountability. Getting that detail right requires us to work closely with NHS England and the wider NHS family. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. There is a lot of noise in the Chamber. People who have come in for the next piece of business are forgetting just how very serious and sombre this piece of business is. Have some thought for others.

[Shailesh Vara (North West Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

The Secretary of State has rightly spoken of the enormous pain and suffering of the parents in this horrific case. He will appreciate, however, that during the course of the Lucy Letby trial, they have had to relive all that pain and suffering. As the statutory inquiry progresses, that pain will be continuing for weeks and months ahead. Will the Secretary of State give an assurance to the House that in the period ahead—during the course of the inquiry and beyond—these parents will receive all the support they need to get through this ordeal?